Stoeger M3000 Scattergun?

[BirdTown]

On 9/5/2017 at 3:45 AM, EgorD said:

Hi all,
I've got a very disappointing malfuntion with my M3K. Occasionally it automatically makes second shot, while I'm pressing trigger only once.

This began after 6-7 thousand rounds, and now it happens once per 100 rounds on average. Issue is not with ammo, because auto-shots happen both on light loads that I use for training and heavy loads used during matches. I tried to install new firing pin, firing pin spring and firing pin retaining pin, but it didn't help...

 

Did anyone came across this malfunction? What is the possible reason?

 

EDIT: Ooops, my apologies for asking a question that has been already discussed. I didn't know it is called "double". Will carefully read all 131 pages of this topic

Send the trigger group to MOA, it's not the bolt or pin. Your interupter is shot.

[BirdTown]

On 5/6/2018 at 7:11 PM, GunCat said:

 

There was a small group of Stoeger inertia springs known to have improper heat treatment. Stoeger will send you a new spring, or replace it with a Benelli inertia spring. Either way you'll likely never have that problem again.

If you are using low power loads get a new low power spring form MOA. I did and they are great.

[TalkingMonkey]

Just wanted to give an endorsement of Stoeger/Benelli customer service.  As mentioned above, I recently purchased an M3K Freedom Series.  Right out of the box I was having problems with ejection – with Federal Heavy Field Loads and Winchester Universal it was basically a single shot through 75 rounds.  I called Stoeger and their representative was polite and apologetic.  He said he wasn’t surprised about the Winchester Universal but said it should run the Federal Field Loads with no problems and said he would like to have the gun back to look at it and provided a pre-paid shipping label.  Turn around time was a little over a week and the paper work said they replaced the extractor (which looks like a Benelli extractor to me).  I just took it back out last night and it was 100% through 135 rounds (50 of which were Winchester Universal).  I’m really happy with the gun now and with Stoeger CS.

[Vespid_Wasp]

Has anyone seen a bent bolt carrier in their Stoeger?  I may not be using the right terminology.  The twin action bars that travel along the magazine tube that attach to the collar that compresses the action spring.

 

 

I had never heard of this before but a buddy of mine who shoots a Stoeger showed me his and it was wavy and bent all to hell.

 

I shoot an M2 but I picked up an M3000 because I found one for a screaming good deal for a backup and for a loaner gun for some friends who shoot with me.

 

Did he assemble something incorrectly that lead to the damage?

[IntenseImage]

Have had some interesting "failures" with my M3k ... not sure what the cause is. 

 

Say we have a stage of 10 targets, I have a break after 7 where I plan to load 2 ... (giving me 11 shells total). I preload to 9 and stage goes as planned. However after that 10th shot I realize the gun has locked back and is empty ... even though I only took 10 shots. 
 

Hmm ... lets go to the tape ... 

 

In review of the video I can see that as I take my first shot a live shell falls out from the loading port ...

 

What, how, why ... im lost on this type of failure. What should I be looking at -- shell latch?

Edited July 23, 2018 by IntenseImage

[sbfcolina2]

On 7/23/2018 at 8:38 AM, IntenseImage said:

Have had some interesting "failures" with my M3k ... not sure what the cause is. 

 

Say we have a stage of 10 targets, I have a break after 7 where I plan to load 2 ... (giving me 11 shells total). I preload to 9 and stage goes as planned. However after that 10th shot I realize the gun has locked back and is empty ... even though I only took 10 shots. 
 

Hmm ... lets go to the tape ... 

 

In review of the video I can see that as I take my first shot a live shell falls out from the loading port ...

 

What, how, why ... im lost on this type of failure. What should I be looking at -- shell latch?

I would call MOA and see what the say. Sounds like a shell latch

[mikehck55]

Ok everyone. I read through  these 133 pages because I've been having a terrible time with extraction on my M3000. I was getting ready to throw the gun in the woods because it just won't cycle anything. But I found this thread and I've collected information on things to do with your M3000 or M3K to assist in the cycling of the gun. These points may not solve your specific problem, but (I think) they are a good summary of some things in this thread to help with cycling and extraction, especially of light loads. You may want to consider diagnosing your issue before going and swapping out a bunch of parts or doing a bunch of work. To diagnose, you can search through this thread, or try to ask questions on this thread. But it seems like most questions have already been answered. 

 

I'm a traditional wingshooter, not a 3-gun guy with a magazine extension and modified loading port. So I'm not really going to have solutions to those issues here. 

 

I'd really like to thank Tom, and Pat Kelley, from MOA, as well as everyone else with good input throughout this thread. It's awesome to see people in the industry putting in time and effort to help people with endless questions when it doesn't involve a payday. I did end up buying my parts from MOA.

 

Lets jump in.

 

Polishing your magazine tube. This is for people who own M3000's only, M3K guns already have a polished and coated mag tube. Use at least 320 grit, preferably 400 grit, sandpaper to polish your magazine tube. I think anything higher is too fine. I believe you can do it with or without oil. Some people have done this with a lathe, by removing the magazine tube with a little heat near the receiver to loosen the Loctite. I did this by hand with the tube still attached. Tom says to then "cross-hatch with oil and scochbrite", one of those green scrubby pads, I did not do this. 

 

There is also a possibility that there is a metal burr on the inside of one end of your recoil spring (the one that goes over the magazine tube), from where the spring was cut at the factory. There may be longitudinal scratches on your magazine tube if there is a burr present. Use sandpaper or a file to remove this burr. 

 

With a bit of oil, or even better, dry lubricant (graphite?), your recoil spring should now run smooth as butter on your mag tube. Keep an eye on the mag tube and clean and oil it often, it will now be susceptible to rust without the factory finish on it.

 

Extractors. In the first 2/3 of this thread, people have been saying "change your extractors" "change your extractors". A little ways past page 100, Tom discovered that the slot in the carrier bolt in which the extractor sits has a pretty significant burr on the edge of it from the factory. This will be apparent if there are scratches along the sides of your extractor. IMPORTANT: when removing your extractor, look up a video on how to do so. If you go in there hammering at the first pin you see, you will damage the pin, and it will be MUCH harder to remove afterwards. I would recommend a small cylindrical file and then 400 grit sandpaper to remove the burr on the edges of this slot. You should not have to remove much material with a file. I only had sandpaper and it took forever.... 

 

After this. Change your extractors!! Get the Benelli extractors and extractor spring. MOA sells both as a package for $20. Brownells has them in and out of stock. Midway sells them. Use the Benelli part numbers. These extractors are interchangeable with a bunch of Benelli guns. You could probably deburr that slot without changing extractor and your gun would cycle, but the Benelli ones are just clearly a much higher quality. If you just change your extractor, the burr will just damage the new Benelli extractor after a while and you will be right back where you started.

 

Ammunition. There's a lot of talk about ammunition. Some people say one thing works in their gun. Others say it don't. Every gun is different. But in general, these guns are made to run 1/8 oz 3 dram loads at the LEAST. If your gun runs 1 oz loads consistently, that's great, but not everyone's will. Certain brands of the cheaper boxes of ammo are also a pain for the M3000. Estate's are not going to be consistent. Winchester super x or whatever that stuff from Walmart is called is not going to work either. Federal's from Walmart have mixed reviews, some say the older stuff worked and the new doesn;t, some say it works, some say it's garbage. Rio's I've heard mixed reviews on, but my gun sure doesn't like them. Herter's, not a chance.

 

The only cheap boxes that I haven't heard bad things about are the Remington gun clubs. But again, 1 1/8 rounds are your best bet. Also, if your competition scores are going to be affected by a malfunction (wingshooters can usually get away with several before they start becoming lost targets, sometimes you can get disqualified from malfunctions), just buy more expensive ammo!!! If you buy Winchester AA's you are sure to have a good time. Remington Nitros or STS are also good buys.

 

I've actually struggled with Fiocchi's in the past but we'll see how they do after the work I've done.

 

Other. 

 

MOA has a few other parts that are supposed to help with light loads. They sell a light load recoil spring that I have purchased (I'll edit this post and let you know how that goes). And they also have a new "heavy bolt carrier" that is supposed to assist with light loads. It says it is temporarily out of stock, they may be just now gearing up to sell that. I'm be tempted to buy it if I feel I am still having issues with light loads. Let me know if anyone knows anything about that. I'm interested

 

People have also been having issues with the gun clicking but not firing, especially on the 2nd shot. This is called the 'Benelli click'. It happens when your bolt slams shut, and compresses the recoil spring just enough to push the bolt back enough to unseat it from the front of the receiver and the shell. The firing pin can't reach the shell at this point, so it will make no mark on your primer. I.... haven't had this problem, so I don't know what the solution is. But it may be here somewhere in this forum. Or I'm sure a google search of Benelli click might help. Sorry I'm not much help here...

 

I have also noticed a few spots on my gun that had significant scratches and wear, which I'm sure were causing friction. There were a few places on the bottom and sides of the bolt, as well as the bottom and sides of the carrier where the bolt sits, that I polished with the 400 grit sandpaper. Remember that any place you polish is likely going to be susceptible to rust. So clean and oil your gun! 

 

I would appreciate any input from veterans of this thread! I've received lots of help from this thread and was just trying to make it a little easier for the next guy. 

 

[Tantal]

Huge Thanks to MOA. Had them do a few things to my M3K, amazing work, great customer service. 

 

 

Edited August 18, 2018 by Tantal

[MrPie68]

Hi guys, amazing thread!  I have an M3k with the TTI trigger springs and the MOA recoil spring.  I was looking at the mercury recoil reducer and know a lot of people were having cycling problems with it installed but it seems like that was with the factory spring.  Has anyone used it with the reduced spring and still had issues?

[mikehck55]

MrPie, I would highly recommend taking a look at your extractors to see if they are scratched as I describe above. And then consider if you should replace them with Benelli extractors as well, makes a huge difference on ejection of the shell and cycling. I don't actually know anything about the mercury recoil reducer, but I do know the recoil spring has made a significant difference. 

[Mike9250]

Another troubleshooting question here... My M3000 has about 2300rds through it now.  I replaced the extractor and spring with the Benelli parts at about 1k rounds as I was having extraction issues.  It has run great since then, until now.  It's extracting, but the empty hulls are getting hung up in the ejection port.  After it did it the first time I thoroughly cleaned, lubed, and inspected it and found no issues.  I ran it again the other day and it was fine up until the last stage and it jammed 3 times out of 15 or so rounds.  It seems like it's short stroking, but I have no idea why it would be doing that.  Ammo is mostly Federal bulk pack, which I've been running for years.  Ejector, extractor, and inertia spring all look good.  Thoughts?  

[mikehck55]

2 hours ago, Mike9250 said:

Another troubleshooting question here... My M3000 has about 2300rds through it now.  I replaced the extractor and spring with the Benelli parts at about 1k rounds as I was having extraction issues.  It has run great since then, until now.  It's extracting, but the empty hulls are getting hung up in the ejection port.  After it did it the first time I thoroughly cleaned, lubed, and inspected it and found no issues.  I ran it again the other day and it was fine up until the last stage and it jammed 3 times out of 15 or so rounds.  It seems like it's short stroking, but I have no idea why it would be doing that.  Ammo is mostly Federal bulk pack, which I've been running for years.  Ejector, extractor, and inertia spring all look good.  Thoughts?  

 

From what I've read, when the shells are extracting but not ejecting, it is likely because the extractor grabs the rim of the shell, pulls back until the shell reaches the ejector, and then the extractor slips off the rim of the shell. This could be due to several possible reasons.

 

You may want to inspect the ejector spring, it could be fouled up and just not allowing the ejector to compress the spring and do its job. I believe you can actually take a pin out and take the spring and ejector out? Not totally sure, you may want to look up how do this. This is a likely fix if you use dirty shells or don't clean often. 

 

The extractor may also just not be grabbing the rim of the shell and holding on well enough. Did you deburr the slot in the bolt where the extractor goes when you replaced the extractors? If you have scratches on the top and bottom sides (flat sides) of your extractor you are going to want to de burr the slot and maybe even replace your extractors again. See my above post.

 

The extractor may not just be grabbing the shell securely enough in the first place. I have heard that some people have trouble with federal shells. They say newer federal shells have a more rounded rim that can be tough for some extractors to grab properly. You may also want to consider polishing/deburring/filing the slot in the piece of your barrel where the shell sits when the gun is loaded and where the extractor goes in to grab the shell. Sometimes I think a poor transition from this slot to the shell can cause the extractor to not grab well enough. 

 

You could also switch ammunition. Most people don't have issues with Remington gun club shells. That's what I primarily try to use, but Federals do work for me mostly. Every gun is different.

 

Actually, I almost forgot, MOST IMPORTANTLY... are you using 1 1/8 oz shells? If you are using 1 oz shells they could be underpowered and just not giving enough force to the bolt to activate the aforementioned ejector spring. 

 

Let me know whatcha thing of all this. 

[Mike9250]

Thank you for the detailed response.  I did deburr the extractor slot when I replaced the extractor.  It was pretty rough, the factory extractor had a nice groove worn in it.  The current Benelli part looks good still, no signs of wear.  I also made sure the ejector was moving freely in the barrel and put a drop of oil on it.  I may remove it and clean the channel out just to be sure.  You might be on to something with the Federal shell rims.  Based on the type of malfunction I'm having there is a good chance the extractor is losing it's grip and sliding off the rim. They do look a bit more rounded than some of the other brands, though I've been using them for a while with good results.  I might switch to Winchester Universal. Despite the bad rap they get they've run fine for me in the past.  Any chance my recoil spring or inertia spring are worn out?  Seems unlikely with only 2300 rds, but I thought about replacing them to be sure.  

[mikehck55]

I would be surprised if your springs were worn out after 2k rounds, or cause that kind of malfunction if they were. I remember reading something in this forum about broken inertia springs (the one inside the bolt and around the firing pin) but I think that may have been from factory. Wouldn't hurt to take a look at it though. Have you polished your mag tube? I installed the MOA reduced recoil spring and I've even had pretty good luck cycling a lot of 1 oz rounds. Came in handy when I ran out of shells but still shot my 15 bird limit on opening day of dove season

[Mike9250]

Yeah, mag tube was polished a while back.  I use 1 1/8, 3 dram, 1200fps loads pretty much exclusively.  I'll try the Winchesters next time and see how it goes.  If it still has issues I'll dig a bit deeper and see what I can figure out.  

[muddywings]

Another troubleshooting question here... My M3000 has about 2300rds through it now.  I replaced the extractor and spring with the Benelli parts at about 1k rounds as I was having extraction issues.  It has run great since then, until now.  It's extracting, but the empty hulls are getting hung up in the ejection port.  After it did it the first time I thoroughly cleaned, lubed, and inspected it and found no issues.  I ran it again the other day and it was fine up until the last stage and it jammed 3 times out of 15 or so rounds.  It seems like it's short stroking, but I have no idea why it would be doing that.  Ammo is mostly Federal bulk pack, which I've been running for years.  Ejector, extractor, and inertia spring all look good.  Thoughts?  

Replace your mag tube spring more often. Solves that exact problem for me every time...and its a cheap easy first step


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[greerstyl]

sounds like i should just buy the benelli... seems like so much upkeep

 

[sonex128]

32 minutes ago, greerstyl said:

sounds like i should just buy the benelli... seems like so much upkeep

 

I haven’t had any problems with mine.  I only shoot the cheap box of Winchester or Federal from Walmart through it. 

[greerstyl]

i just keep going back and forth between the 2 and think that if you got the money spend it. Already went through the whole mossberg 930 pro situations. 

[mikehck55]

Honestly, it's kinda BS that you should have to do any work on a gun that you buy to ensure that it works properly. But, I'm super happy with my M3000 and the minor fixes were cheap and easy. If you're looking for a no hassle no worry and can spare the money, a more expensive gun is the way to go. The M3000 is a heck of a bargain and if you do just a few minor things to it it will work as smooth as a gun that costs almost twice as much. 

[Steve133]

Probably going to sound like a broken record, since I've said this several times already, but:

 

21 hours ago, greerstyl said:

i just keep going back and forth between the 2 and think that if you got the money spend it. Already went through the whole mossberg 930 pro situations. 

 

I agree up to a point - it kind of depends on what you mean by "the money" - is money no object? Then absolutely, go with a custom Benelli M2 and never look back. Do you just have the money for a stock M2 and you're planning on doing all the work on it yourself? If that's the case, then I would recommend taking a good, long look at custom-built M3k as a good intermediate option - there are a few high-quality shops that do good work with them. The total price of a custom-built M3k is probably going to be about the same as a stock Benelli, and all of the kinks related to Stoeger's inconsistent fit and finish will be worked out already.

 

I'm generalizing here, but based on the research and experience that I've gathered over the past few years, I've come around to this rule of thumb on competition guns:

 

Cheap stock gun < Expensive stock gun < Cheap custom gun < Expensive custom gun

[greerstyl]

10 hours ago, Steve133 said:

Probably going to sound like a broken record, since I've said this several times already, but:

 

 

I agree up to a point - it kind of depends on what you mean by "the money" - is money no object? Then absolutely, go with a custom Benelli M2 and never look back. Do you just have the money for a stock M2 and you're planning on doing all the work on it yourself? If that's the case, then I would recommend taking a good, long look at custom-built M3k as a good intermediate option - there are a few high-quality shops that do good work with them. The total price of a custom-built M3k is probably going to be about the same as a stock Benelli, and all of the kinks related to Stoeger's inconsistent fit and finish will be worked out already.

 

I'm generalizing here, but based on the research and experience that I've gathered over the past few years, I've come around to this rule of thumb on competition guns:

 

Cheap stock gun < Expensive stock gun < Cheap custom gun < Expensive custom gun

 

 

this makes perfect sense, the only company i found was the P3K from Moaprecision. 10 week wait which is the biggest deal but i will say if one was already in stock I would have bought it so i could use it this year (in mass, cold). I was leaning towards the Benelli 3gun, not the stock M2, just due to ease of access and reputation. 

 

Are there anyother stoeger shops that have the complete custom gun for sale? 

 

Thanks for the help, 

[Steve133]

14 hours ago, greerstyl said:

 

 

this makes perfect sense, the only company i found was the P3K from Moaprecision. 10 week wait which is the biggest deal but i will say if one was already in stock I would have bought it so i could use it this year (in mass, cold). I was leaning towards the Benelli 3gun, not the stock M2, just due to ease of access and reputation. 

 

Are there anyother stoeger shops that have the complete custom gun for sale? 

 

Thanks for the help, 

 

At least in my (admittedly somewhat-limited) experience, "ready-to-go" competition guns are rare. The MOA's P3K is about the only Stoeger option that I know of off the top of my head - I was looking very hard at one myself, but I found a good sale price on a stock M3k, so I ordered that one and then shipped it off again once I got it. That's not really an issue that's unique to Stoeger, either - basically every "competition-ready" model that a major manufacturer produces isn't quite ready to go, and you're still going to have to do at least some minor tweaking (e.g., even with the "3 Gun Edition" M2 direct from Benelli, you're going to have to add an extension tube - I've only seen one of them in person, and that one also would have benefited from a little more work on the loading port, but for all I know, they've improved that recently).

 

The guys who really know what they're doing are the relatively small custom shops, and for whatever reason, their bread and butter is modifying customer-owned guns, not selling completed ones. The only exceptions that I can think of off the top of my head are the guys who run custom shops and are sponsored by a factory shotgun company - maybe because they have an inside track on getting the stock versions at dealer prices? Whatever the reason, folks like Aaron Hayes and Taran Butler, will outright sell you a custom M2, but a lot of shops will just work on them (though I'll bet that if you called and talked to them, you'd probably find someone who'd be willing to order a stock gun and then ship it to your FFL once it was done). Incidentally, unless you've got a smoking deal on one of those Benelli 3 Gun Edition guns, that's what I'd do - off the top of my head, I think you could get a Hayes Custom or Roth Performance M2 (well... M2-ish, for the Roth ones, since they're built on custom receivers) for the same price, or a TTI for not much more, and any of those really will be ready to go out of the box. Or accept the wait and order two P3Ks for the same price (or one P3K and $1000 of shells for practice...).

 

That said, I think that even the guys who sell complete shotguns don't just have a storeroom full of them ready to ship out - most of them probably build to order, given the low quantities involved, so you're likely going to have to wait a few weeks regardless of the option you go with.

[kurtm]

Not bagging on the old Stoegy, just need some info. How common is this failure? Lower locking lugs recesses broke out of this barrel at about the 3000 round mark. Anyone else had this happen?

[P.E. Kelley]

56 minutes ago, kurtm said:

Not bagging on the old Stoegy, just need some info. How common is this failure? Lower locking lugs recesses broke out of this barrel at about the 3000 round mark. Anyone else had this happen?

 

Looks like a pumpgun barrel.