seanc Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 I'm guessing indoor nationals had something to do with it. That is a reasonable conclusion to come to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bones Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 There in lies the rub! I would argue that MANY of the modifications we make to all our guns, certainly revolvers too, include work on the action to make the trigger smoother/lighter. I would personally never modify a carry gun's trigger... and I've had attorneys suggest the same. Lots of modifications we do are FOR competition. So it's a slippery slope when we (or they) have to decide what is for competition only and what isn't. Interesting turn of events Gary as I'm hammering IDPA these days (no pun intended) for coming up with things to pork people. IDPA IS a COMPETITION. You have come far, my Brother. I know you will recall with fondness our vigourous and lively I-95 discussion about this very topic a few months ago. Some sports are becoming Idiosyncratic, Disenfranchising, Peculiar and Angry. Do not expect more from them than they can give. I cannot use my carry revolver in IDPA. I would not carry my IDPA revolver. I cannot use my carry 1911 in IDPA. I would not carry my IDPA 1911. These are truly mysteries of Life. See you this weekend at the USPSA and ICORE matches, Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 (edited) There in lies the rub! I would argue that MANY of the modifications we make to all our guns, certainly revolvers too, include work on the action to make the trigger smoother/lighter. I would personally never modify a carry gun's trigger... and I've had attorneys suggest the same. Lots of modifications we do are FOR competition. So it's a slippery slope when we (or they) have to decide what is for competition only and what isn't. Interesting turn of events Gary as I'm hammering IDPA these days (no pun intended) for coming up with things to pork people. IDPA IS a COMPETITION. You have come far, my Brother. I know you will recall with fondness our vigourous and lively I-95 discussion about this very topic a few months ago. Some sports are becoming Idiosyncratic, Disenfranchising, Peculiar and Angry. Do not expect more from them than they can give. I cannot use my carry revolver in IDPA. I would not carry my IDPA revolver. I cannot use my carry 1911 in IDPA. I would not carry my IDPA 1911. These are truly mysteries of Life. See you this weekend at the USPSA and ICORE matches, Craig I really feel bad for SOs... most of the time anyway. Some are just angry. Especially when they run into competitors like us. We ask what would appear to be simple questions and often times they get frustrated or mad at us... expecting us to already know the answers. The problem lies in the fact that many clubs and SOs can't accurately determine what the rules actually mean... or they make up their own. I can't tell you how many times I've been told that a foot needs to come off the ground when shooting on the "move". Where the hell does it say anything about that in the rulebook? IDPA is making things worse for themselves these days. But I digressed. Back on topic- IDPA probably has more revolver turnout that USPSA as a percentage... but they might be making it worse with all this. Edited June 28, 2013 by lugnut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubber Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Revolver shooters can always do what revolvers do best ..... PPC ! Not really. They are open only to LEO's and REvolvers are not allowed at the big matches. It has moved to Semi Auto game. At least that is what I have heard/read/ Later rdd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 I don't see how being able to cycle the action with the cylinder open could possibly be a safety issue. When the cylinder is open it is impossible for it to fire.Not if it's just slightly open. Round would be off center to the barrel but the firing pin could catch the edge of the primer and set it off. That tang is the revo equivalent of the autoloader's safety devices which prevent firing when the slide is out of battery. IMHO, it could be considered a safety related device. I doubt that can even really happen. Murphy's Law is the most powerful force in the universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cd662 Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 sbc, I would have left that one alone but obviously it's done and done. I can understand the gripe about big butt grips, it has some sort of logic in relation to the self defense aspect. I don't think anyone carries a gun with a Hogue Big Butt grip for conceal carry. At the same time, matches shouldn't have asinine stages that involve shooting prone at 15+ yards...I've been to some that say prone shooting must be accomplished with both arms on the ground, aka "straight on" at the target. Really? Bottom line is, the people in this discussion here are not important to IDPA. IDPA wants to replace us with the "home" crowd, and people who read stupid internet tactical articles and magazines, and folks who check behind them in both directions before unloading their guns. That's fine; honestly, I can't fault IDPA because they are a business and they are going to make a lot more money if they focus their attention on that crowd. I still want to know how to salvage my gun. If I grind off the single action notch and make the gun truly double action only, will that fix anything or is the gun still going to be able to cycle with the cylinder open because of the removal of the "tang"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revoman Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 just replace the hammer and take off enough to have the cylinder latch still engage when the cylinder is open Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revoman Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 that is the part of the hammer that is removed when carmonized Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revoman Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 call it part carmonized :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wagonburner Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 A lot of drama over there in IDPA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alecmc Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Sounds like alot of Idpa revo guys are going to be buying the apex hammer now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COF Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 CD, did the "inspector" hold the cylinder release back when he attempted to cycle the action or did he just pull the trigger? The reason I'm asking is I checked my authentic Carmonized 625 with the cylinder open and couldn't cycle the action unless I hold the cylinder release back. Guess what - any revolver will fire when you do that. Mine would only come about a third of the way back and then stopped. No way it would have fired because it wasn't back far enough to bring the hammer block out of the way. Be interesting to see how this rule is applied. Realistically, I think it's another knee-jerk response to a non-issue probably generated by someone in Smith's legal department. Break out the Liquid Weld and build up a little bump at the back of the hammer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowrider Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 (edited) ....snipped I went to a sanctioned match where the stage designers thought it was amusing that revolvers had to do tac loads on three stages, and on one of them when I made up shots on targets, the scorekeeper tried to issue an FTDR on me and then FOLLOWED ME to where I was sitting and lectured me for about five minutes on how to shoot revolvers properly and about the integrity of IDPA. I would have Bill drilled every target on the very next stage. Edited June 30, 2013 by Shadowrider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbcman Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 CD, did the "inspector" hold the cylinder release back when he attempted to cycle the action or did he just pull the trigger? The reason I'm asking is I checked my authentic Carmonized 625 with the cylinder open and couldn't cycle the action unless I hold the cylinder release back. Guess what - any revolver will fire when you do that. Mine would only come about a third of the way back and then stopped. No way it would have fired because it wasn't back far enough to bring the hammer block out of the way. Be interesting to see how this rule is applied. Realistically, I think it's another knee-jerk response to a non-issue probably generated by someone in Smith's legal department. Break out the Liquid Weld and build up a little bump at the back of the hammer. On my check, there was no holding it back. But, I've got two carmonized hammer 625 and one of them will cycle with the cylinder out and one of them won't. Guess every gun is a bit different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg K Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 If you put back or put in a full length spring that holds the bolt / cylinder latch forward, the hammer will come back about 3/4 of the way but won't drop. At least it works on all of mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toolguy Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Some of the older guns have a hand with a pin about 1/2 way up that hits the square part of the thumb latch bar and won't allow the action to cycle with the cylinder open. None of the newer ones have that kind of hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg K Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Some of the older guns have a hand with a pin about 1/2 way up that hits the square part of the thumb latch bar and won't allow the action to cycle with the cylinder open. None of the newer ones have that kind of hand. Yep, that pin on the hand is what stops mine when the bolt is forward. My 625-8 is a fairly new gun and it's hand still has the pin. I haven't looked inside anything newer than my 625-8 though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alecmc Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 (edited) Some of the older guns have a hand with a pin about 1/2 way up that hits the square part of the thumb latch bar and won't allow the action to cycle with the cylinder open. None of the newer ones have that kind of hand. Yep, that pin on the hand is what stops mine when the bolt is forward. My 625-8 is a fairly new gun and it's hand still has the pin. I haven't looked inside anything newer than my 625-8 though. Same deal, just tested both mine out.... I can get just to about below full cock in da with the cylinder open before she stops on both my 625-2 & 625-8, my *newer* 327 trr8 would completely cycle through the action with the cylinder open before I had put the apex hammer in. Edited July 1, 2013 by alecmc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbcman Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 (edited) Some of the older guns have a hand with a pin about 1/2 way up that hits the square part of the thumb latch bar and won't allow the action to cycle with the cylinder open. None of the newer ones have that kind of hand. Yep, that pin on the hand is what stops mine when the bolt is forward. My 625-8 is a fairly new gun and it's hand still has the pin. I haven't looked inside anything newer than my 625-8 though. One of my 625s will stop cycling half-way through with a full spring. Another will go all the way through but it has a Powers Custom hand in it that doesn't have the double pin. Checking those springs might save some guys some heartache. Edited July 1, 2013 by sbcman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle7735 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Is it possible to do a 97.5% carmonizing and get someone to mill out an extended cylinder latch 5 times the length. Instead of a long and heavy tab on the back of the hammer. Have a very short one and a long latch safety that engages it. Kinda reversing the engagement. Short hammer long latch instead of long hammer short latch.My safety still functions. Its just like an extended 1911 thumb safety or raised bump grip safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbcman Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I'd think someone could save themselves a lot of work messing with the latch instead of just cutting down the hammer. Check out the thread below to see how much can be taken off and still have enough to catch the latch. http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=177904 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Whyte Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 I let my SO card expire, & plan to do the same with my membership with IDPA. I,m having one helluva time shooting ICORE,USPSA,& STEEL CHALLENGE.plus no B.S. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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