Jump to content
Brian Enos's Forums... Maku mozo!

USPSA Steel Calibration


Graham Smith
 Share

Recommended Posts

Why does USPSA require poppers to be calibrated but not other steel targets? I've shot things like plates, plate racks, stars, etc that were just plain hard to make drop.

We use some hinged plates and even though there is no requirement to do so, we check them just like we check poppers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it is because mot plates are non adjustable, they either work or they don't. there are some plates that can be adjusted and verifying there adjustment prior to a match while not required is not a bad idea. I think it would be difficult to try to differentiate between the different types of plates and say that the adjustable ones can be challenged for calibration and the non adjustable ones can't so none of them are.

Mike

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it is because mot plates are non adjustable, they either work or they don't. there are some plates that can be adjusted and verifying there adjustment prior to a match while not required is not a bad idea. I think it would be difficult to try to differentiate between the different types of plates and say that the adjustable ones can be challenged for calibration and the non adjustable ones can't so none of them are.

Mike

I would say this is most of the answer. If you look at the plates 8" & 12" circles, or 6" & 12" squares the only adjustment you have is the base which is hard to adjust (and if you had a fine tuning mechanism would probably end up being shot out, not to mention expensive). Most of the time plates fall too easily off of the stands or base.

I believe that another part of the answer is that initially the poppers were a test of your power factor, to make sure you were shooting major loads, and you could say became ingrained.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If the plates don't fall when hit, it is REF and a re-shoot must be ordrered.

4.3.1.6 Unlike Poppers, metal plates are not subject to calibration or calibration challenges. If a scoring metal plate has been hit but fails to fall or overturn, the Range Officer shall declare range equipment failure and order the competitor to reshoot the course of fire, after the faulty plate has been rectified.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If the plates don't fall when hit, it is REF and a re-shoot must be ordrered.

I had completely forgotten that. And it reminds me about the WHY as well.

Wasn't calibration originally supposed to make sure that the ammo being used by the competitor was at least powerful enough to knock down the popper?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If the plates don't fall when hit, it is REF and a re-shoot must be ordrered.

I had completely forgotten that. And it reminds me about the WHY as well.

Yeah, a couple years ago, didn't know the rules well, hit a falling plate and it spun sideways on the stand. I didn't know it was REF and thought I still had to knock it off. Kept shooting at it, finally hit it so the plate went off the stand. As I transitioned to the next plate, RO stopped me, had me do a reshoot, and said something along the lines of he let me keep going to see if I could still hit the plate though it was sideways and only had the edge to shoot at. Didn't realize at the time, a little perturbed now that I know the rule, wish I could remember who it was.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

I just had to re-shoot a stage this weekend for a plate that didn't fall off of a Texas Star after I hit it twice. The first time I hit it, I wasn't sure if I hit the plate or the arm. The second time the plate rocked back but stayed on, and the RO stopped me and ordered the re-shoot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wasn't calibration originally supposed to make sure that the ammo being used by the competitor was at least powerful enough to knock down the popper?

Yes, it was a power factor test.

Perhaps it was way back, but not any more.

The current calibration procedure for poppers describes how they should fall to test rounds in a certain PF range, but does NOTspecify that they should NOT fall if hit with lower PF rounds. By way of example, some recent Nationals used foward falling poppers that went down to minor PF hits at the bottom of the target face, sometimes much more than a foot below the calibration circle. I'm pretty sure a .32 pocket pistol would have taken those down with any clean hit.

PF is now measured at the Chrono stage, FBOFW.

Sorry about the rant/drift. Back to our regularly scheduled programming...

Edited by kevin c
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just had to re-shoot a stage this weekend for a plate that didn't fall off of a Texas Star after I hit it twice. The first time I hit it, I wasn't sure if I hit the plate or the arm. The second time the plate rocked back but stayed on, and the RO stopped me and ordered the re-shoot.

This is why all the steel is supposed to be repainted between shooters. If there is a solid hit mark shown but it doesn't fall, its an range equipment failure. You get a reshoot.

The lack of a plate falling can't be used to determine a shooter's powerfactor, only an official match chronograph, otherwise powerfactor is taken at the competitors word. Even it the bullets still hanging from the cardboard, no chronograph, no challenge... 5.6.1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is why all the steel is supposed to be repainted between shooters. If there is a solid hit mark shown but it doesn't fall, its an range equipment failure. You get a reshoot.

Just to clarify - evidence of ANY hit requires a re-shoot, it doesn't have to be a solid hit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wasn't calibration originally supposed to make sure that the ammo being used by the competitor was at least powerful enough to knock down the popper?

Yes, it was a power factor test.

Perhaps it was way back, but not any more.

Yes, operative word - was

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't most or all stage descriptions say "steel must fall to score"? Rule 4.3.1.5 "Metal plates are not subject to calibration or challenge" rule 4.3.1.6. We don't paint our Star at our L1 matches. Does any one else?

We had almost the same problem as JAFO, the Shooter hit one of the plates on the star. This star has the two holes in it on the bottom of the plate to help aline it. The plate came of one of the holes and hung there. The Shooter was not stopped and kept on shooting at it until it was hit again and fell.

The R.O. and the Score'er had a talk and decided that because the Shooter kept shooting and made the plate fall there was no reshoot.

My question is, had the Shooter left the plate would it be a reshoot? if so, Why?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"steel must fall to score" and the rule that hits that do not make the steel fall are REF's are not contradictory. Stating that steel must fall to score is not actually needed in a USPSA match. In outlaw or multigun, this may be different.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The rules do not specifically address a Texas Star or Polish Plate rack, I would think however that these rules would apply -

4.3.1.5 Scoring metal targets must be shot and fall or overturn to score. Scoring Poppers which fail to fall when hit, are subject to the provisions of Appendix C1, 6 & 7. Scoring metal targets which a Range Officer deems have fallen or overturned due to a shot

on the supporting apparatus or prematurely fallen or moved for any reason will be treated as range equipment failure. (See Rule

4.6.1).

4.3.1.6 Unlike Poppers, metal plates are not subject to calibration or calibration challenges. If a scoring metal plate has been hit but fails to fall or overturn, the Range Officer shall declare range equipment failure and order the competitor to reshoot the course of fire, after the faulty plate has been rectified.

So I would say a Re-shoot is required.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't most or all stage descriptions say "steel must fall to score"? Rule 4.3.1.5 "Metal plates are not subject to calibration or challenge" rule 4.3.1.6. We don't paint our Star at our L1 matches. Does any one else?

We had almost the same problem as JAFO, the Shooter hit one of the plates on the star. This star has the two holes in it on the bottom of the plate to help aline it. The plate came of one of the holes and hung there. The Shooter was not stopped and kept on shooting at it until it was hit again and fell.

The R.O. and the Score'er had a talk and decided that because the Shooter kept shooting and made the plate fall there was no reshoot.

My question is, had the Shooter left the plate would it be a reshoot? if so, Why?

As soon as the plate was hit and did not fall, the shooter should have been stopped and the stage reset for a re-shoot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't most or all stage descriptions say "steel must fall to score"? Rule 4.3.1.5 "Metal plates are not subject to calibration or challenge" rule 4.3.1.6. We don't paint our Star at our L1 matches. Does any one else?

I painted both sides of all the Star plates prior to the match, and paint was available on the stage. Whether other squads painted, I can't say, but we always make the paint available.

We had almost the same problem as JAFO, the Shooter hit one of the plates on the star. This star has the two holes in it on the bottom of the plate to help aline it. The plate came of one of the holes and hung there. The Shooter was not stopped and kept on shooting at it until it was hit again and fell.

The R.O. and the Score'er had a talk and decided that because the Shooter kept shooting and made the plate fall there was no reshoot.

My question is, had the Shooter left the plate would it be a reshoot? if so, Why?

Yes, it should have been a reshoot. The plate was dislodged, but didn't fall. Think of it like a plate on a stand that turns instead of falls - REF. I have also seen a plate on a star start to fall, but hang on until the star rotated a bit, then proceed to fall off and knock another plate off the star. Again - REF.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't most or all stage descriptions say "steel must fall to score"? Rule 4.3.1.5 "Metal plates are not subject to calibration or challenge" rule 4.3.1.6. We don't paint our Star at our L1 matches. Does any one else?

We had almost the same problem as JAFO, the Shooter hit one of the plates on the star. This star has the two holes in it on the bottom of the plate to help aline it. The plate came of one of the holes and hung there. The Shooter was not stopped and kept on shooting at it until it was hit again and fell.

The R.O. and the Score'er had a talk and decided that because the Shooter kept shooting and made the plate fall there was no reshoot.

My question is, had the Shooter left the plate would it be a reshoot? if so, Why?

It should have been a reshoot the moment the RO noticed the range equipment failure -- plate hanging by one hole....

Paint the steel between shooters -- it doesn't cost much, and they deserve it....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Perhaps I'm wrong here but as I read the rulebook, there are very specific approved types of steel targets. I think using novelty steel is inappropriate for sanctioned matches of any sort.

These both use "very specific approved types of steel targets", right? The difference is in the target stand, not the targets.

t_100005768_1.jpg

Texas_Star_Target_lg.jpg

My only issue is if they work well or not. Some don't. (I took a Star out of a Major I was running because I couldn't trust it to work.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most Stars I've seen have a zert fitting for a grease gun. Use it. It makes them spin fast and smooth and that's very cool. When they spin slowly due to internal drag, it's....a drag.

The key difference between these numerous varieties of plates and their cousins (Poppers - full or mini), is the hinge and calibration mechanism. Poppers have a hinge and usually a bolt to adjust in and out to set it to fall to just-under Minor Power Factor ammo. A plate, whether free-standing or mounted on a Star, has no such mechanism available and can't be calibrated. They simply aren't adjustable to meet the PF requirement.

Yes, some plate racks have adjustment bolts on them, but the size/weight of that plate isn't the same as a Popper and can't be calibrated the same way. The best you can do with a plate rack is to deliberately shoot the front bar beneath the plates and ensure they don't fall from the vibration caused by the impact.

Scott's right. Any hit on a plate that doesn't fall is an automatic reshoot. There's no judgment call of whether "enough" of the bullet hit the plate. It hit it or it didn't.

As to one plate falling and dislodging another...reshoot.

If a supporting mechanism is hit and a plate falls...reshoot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Perhaps I'm wrong here but as I read the rulebook, there are very specific approved types of steel targets. I think using novelty steel is inappropriate for sanctioned matches of any sort.

Plate racks and stars are just a set of plates. No more, no less.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Perhaps I'm wrong here but as I read the rulebook, there are very specific approved types of steel targets. I think using novelty steel is inappropriate for sanctioned matches of any sort.

Plate racks and stars are just a set of plates. No more, no less.

Spot-on!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...