Quick Production Double Action questions

[44stevenson]

Got a CZ SP-01 Custom ordered and on the way, I know first shot must be double action, but does the safety need to be engaged or not?

[kneelingatlas]

No

[eric nielsen]

Learn to safely decock the gun as smoothly and quickly as possible with one continuous motion that ends with the gun in the holster. This leaves no time for the confusion and questions to present themselves from RO's (most of whom don't know the rules which are: standard safety off, hammer all the way down - OR - decocker model, use the decocker, hammer 80% of the way down).

I use my left hand to decock, right hand just pulls the trigger. Left thumb and middle finger pinch the sides of the hammer, right index finger acts as a temporary hammer block until the hammer is most of the way down. With my Shadow Target, have to get the index finger out of there a little bit earlier than w/my standard Shadow, because the Target rear sight hangs further back. I turn the gun away from the RO slightly as this gives better body mechanics on the decocking motion AND gives RO less to observe & then say something which breaks up your pre-buzzer routine.

Edited March 7, 2013 by eric nielsen

[HeinrichDerLowe]

I am also running a shadow target in production and have never had an RO question me about starting with the safety off. Some do give a nervous look when I lower the hammer by hand.

I know there was some significant debate in the section for the CZ guns about whether you can start from the half-cock or if the hammer must actually be resting upon the firing pin. Until I receive a complaint from an RO, I'm only lowering the hammer to half-cock because I don't care for a loaded pistol aiming down my femur with the firing pin resting on the primer.

[amish_rabbi]

Learn to safely decock the gun as smoothly and quickly as possible with one continuous motion that ends with the gun in the holster. This leaves no time for the confusion and questions to present themselves from RO's (most of whom don't know the rules which are: standard safety off, hammer all the way down - OR - decocker model, use the decocker, hammer 80% of the way down).

I use my left hand to decock, right hand just pulls the trigger. Left thumb and middle finger pinch the sides of the hammer, right index finger acts as a temporary hammer block until the hammer is most of the way down. With my Shadow Target, have to get the index finger out of there a little bit earlier than w/my standard Shadow, because the Target rear sight hangs further back. I turn the gun away from the RO slightly as this gives better body mechanics on the decocking motion AND gives RO less to observe & then say something which breaks up your pre-buzzer routine.

There is a much easier way to decock a cz, when im not on my phone i will post the video i made demonstrating it.

[motosapiens]

I am also running a shadow target in production and have never had an RO question me about starting with the safety off. Some do give a nervous look when I lower the hammer by hand.

I know there was some significant debate in the section for the CZ guns about whether you can start from the half-cock or if the hammer must actually be resting upon the firing pin. Until I receive a complaint from an RO, I'm only lowering the hammer to half-cock because I don't care for a loaded pistol aiming down my femur with the firing pin resting on the primer.

I don't mean to be a jerk, but you are pretty much cheating unless your gun is equipped with a decocker. Also, you may want to actually examine your gun and you will verify that the firing pin is NOT actually resting on the primer with the hammer down unless something is very unusual. Lots of people who carry cz's (like me) carry them with the hammer fully down.

Edited June 4, 2013 by motosapiens

[98sr20ve]

I am also running a shadow target in production and have never had an RO question me about starting with the safety off. Some do give a nervous look when I lower the hammer by hand.

I know there was some significant debate in the section for the CZ guns about whether you can start from the half-cock or if the hammer must actually be resting upon the firing pin. Until I receive a complaint from an RO, I'm only lowering the hammer to half-cock because I don't care for a loaded pistol aiming down my femur with the firing pin resting on the primer.

Firing pin only extend to hit the primer with the force of the hammer. Besides that the FP is retracted in the slide a small amount. You should start with the hammer fully down. That is the rule for your gun.

[amish_rabbi]

heres that video, best way to decock a cz because it is simple and safe

[kennjen]

I don't want to sound like a "P". But, that motion of rolling the thumb out of the way of the hammer looks like it would hurt.....

Good thing I shoot a sig now.

[kneelingatlas]

I don't want to sound like a "P"

Too late!

[HeinrichDerLowe]

I am also running a shadow target in production and have never had an RO question me about starting with the safety off. Some do give a nervous look when I lower the hammer by hand.

I know there was some significant debate in the section for the CZ guns about whether you can start from the half-cock or if the hammer must actually be resting upon the firing pin. Until I receive a complaint from an RO, I'm only lowering the hammer to half-cock because I don't care for a loaded pistol aiming down my femur with the firing pin resting on the primer.

Firing pin only extend to hit the primer with the force of the hammer. Besides that the FP is retracted in the slide a small amount. You should start with the hammer fully down. That is the rule for your gun.

Thank you for the info, do you know a good way to verify that the firing pin does not extend beyond the breech face with the hammer against it (so I can sleep easier)?

I'm just trying to be safe on the range, and certainly not trying to break any rules.

I took another look at the rulebook and at the extensive thread about the topic in the rules section. The consensus does seem to be that the hammer cannot rest on the notch and must be against the firing pin. That said, the whole thing turns on the definition of 'fully forward' and 'decocker' (not in the glossary). The lawyer in me can't resist making the substance-over-form argument that the notch/half-cock actually functions the same as a decocker, or that the hammer is fully forward when resting on that notch. I'm not convinced that there is any competitive advantage to starting from the half vs hammer on the firing pin (although others say there's a difference with their guns), and there is certainly no competitive advantage over a gun equipped with an external decocking mechanism. Further, given that safety considerations are paramount in our sport, I'm not sure why it should yield to uniformity or ease of enforcement in this instance.

Notwithstanding the foregoing, I'm now starting with the hammer against the firing pin (everyone else can sleep easier).

Edited June 11, 2013 by HeinrichDerLowe

[motosapiens]

Thank you for the info, do you know a good way to verify that the firing pin does not extend beyond the breech face with the hammer against it (so I can sleep easier)?

if you remove the slide, you can press the firing pin in flush with the back of the slide and observe that it (hopefully) does not protrude out the breech face. I have an extended firing pin in my 75b, and it is visible, but still below the breech face when the back end of the pin is pressed flush with back of the slide. Of course mine has the fpb so even if try to push the firing pin further, it won't go without depressing the fpb plunger, so I can sleep slightly easier than you.

BTW, I agree with you that the half-cock notch doesn't really offer any advantage. I was unable to detect a difference in draw to first shot times between the two positions. Of course at anything under 20 yards, I was also unable to detect any difference in draw to first shot between hammer fully down and starting cocked and locked.

Edited June 11, 2013 by motosapiens

[HeinrichDerLowe]

Thank you for the info, do you know a good way to verify that the firing pin does not extend beyond the breech face with the hammer against it (so I can sleep easier)?

if you remove the slide, you can press the firing pin in flush with the back of the slide and observe that it (hopefully) does not protrude out the breech face. I have an extended firing pin in my 75b, and it is visible, but still below the breech face when the back end of the pin is pressed flush with back of the slide. Of course mine has the fpb so even if try to push the firing pin further, it won't go without depressing the fpb plunger, so I can sleep slightly easier than you.

BTW, I agree with you that the half-cock notch doesn't really offer any advantage. I was unable to detect a difference in draw to first shot times between the two positions. Of course at anything under 20 yards, I was also unable to detect any difference in draw to first shot between hammer fully down and starting cocked and locked.

Got it, thanks!