1050 over 650- convince me

[windscreen]

Quick background: I've been loading on a 650 for four years now, all with a case feeder. I just added on a DAA/Mr. Bulletfeeder and can hit 1500 rds/hr with this setup in 40. Limited is my main deal, and I assembled about 20,000 rounds last year. I expect this quantity to continue to grow.

My processing technique is batches of 2500 (what I can fit in my cement mixer). First pass tool head is sizing only with lubed brass. Dillon carbide sizer (no decap pin) in station 1, Lee FCD with no crimper in 4. I used a tool grinder to take the Lee down to just a tiny chamfer, so it would size brass down closer to the shell plate. This operation is pretty quick, at about 400 brass in 10 minutes.

I then put the brass back in the mixer to tumble off the lube and load normally. This technique limits my case gauge failure rate to around 4 per thousand on random range brass.

I have 2 problems with this setup.

1 - when loading at this rate I get quite a few station 1 jams (brass rocks up when the cam hits it, and the case rim catches on the station 1 locator). Perhaps 2 per 100.

2 - priming happens without a lot of feel, and on cases with minimal primer pocket chamfer (Winchester), I tend to shave or smear primers.

In the interest of saving time, I want a 2nd press to dedicate to 40, and then my current 650 will be for my low volume calibers (9, 223 & 357 sig). Would a 1050 work better for me, or will my press stoppage rate be the same? It really needs to be a lot better on the 1050 to justify the nearly 2x cost. The less time I spend loading ammo, the more I have for dry & live fire.

[Jon Merricks]

If you search 1050 vs 650 you will find a few threads with similar information.

[glynnm45]

Sounds like a 1050 is in your future.

[sauza45]

I went from a 650 to a 1050 and could not be happier. If money is not a problem get the 1050. When I load 40 all I run the brass through the push through die GRX on a single stage press and

then load normal on the 1050 with dillon dies. I dont have any trouble anymore. I dont even case gauge and have not had any trouble in about 10,000 rounds.

[Tom Freeman]

1050 baby.

You wont regret it.

I bought my first 1050 in the mid 90s. Now I have three.

[RiggerJJ]

I would eliminate the unnecessary 2 head process. Either use a push thru die in a single stage or a roll sizer and then one head to load.

You may be able to do everything on a 1050 thou if you can get the right dies in the right places, and do it all on one head.

I have both a 1050 and a 650. They both do the jobs I have them do well, 1050 does rifle 223 and 308, 650 does pistol 9mm 40 and 45, and I roll size all pistol brass.

It really depends on how much you want to spend. Setting up a 1050 for multiple calibers can be costly, $225 per head plus dies...but the 1050 is pretty sweet!

jj

Edited March 6, 2013 by RiggerJJ

[windscreen]

There's just no way I'm going to spend the time with a single stage and a push thru die, unless someone comes up with a case feeder system for those. A roll sizer would be nice. I just wish the wait wasn't so long, and its a chunk of change once you add on another case feeder.

Regardless of the method, I'm still going to case gauge 100%. I find it is a very quick and effective way to find split cases without handling and inspecting each one.

I'm starting to lean 1050, and am hoping to figure out a way to adapt a sizer die to the swedging station. I'd need to figure out a way to attach the back-up rod to the die in place of a decapping stem.

[RiggerJJ]

Huh?

the swedging station has a normal threaded die hole in the head......

On a 1050;

If you decap and size in station 1, 2nd sizer in station 2, and press on thru primer, powder, bullet, you will get finished ammo out the end. Then check each round in a case guage, then shoot em... not really sure why you would want to split the process into 2 just to case guage the sized brass before loading, which would take more time.

your method right now is probably about the same time as it would be to use a push thru on a single stage...no question it is slower than using a roll sizer with case feeder. I roll every piece of pistol brass I use and have virtually no rejects due to case size. I get a couple of flipped primers per 1k, maybe 1 split case in 5k, thats about it...

A 1050 is sweet, really sweet! Get one if money is no object!

but with multiple calibers you will spend a lot less on a roll sizer and dies for it than you will on a 1050 and multiple heads. and you don't need to buy another case feeder for it, just use the one you have. you can only run one machine at a time...

jj

[windscreen]

I case gauge loaded ammo at the end, not empty brass part way through. Once a split brass had a bullet pressed into it, it opens up enough to not fit into a case gauge.

[jmorris]

The 1050 really only has the dowels to locate the shell plate and the swage station but that does make a large difference in what you can do with one.

These are videos so you have to click on the photo.

650, powder check, case feed and bullet feed.

1050 powder check, case feed, bullet feed, auto drive and a plc.

[windscreen]

OK, I'm convinced.

Now where is the check box for the PLC controlled press option?

[Reinz]

I persoanlly feel the 1050 is easily more than twice the machine at almost twice the price. i bought a second one.

[DonovanM]

I fell in love with my 650 when I bought one as my first press. I thought it hit that Goldilocks zone of just right in terms of speed and versatility, and I still think it does if you don't have the money for a 1050.

After using a 1050 at work, I now think if you're serious about loading and have the money, 1050 is the way to go. It's just inevitable.

If you change to something like a U-die I wonder if that would help your case gage issue and bring it all into one step. Lube, load, tumble.

Also you don't need an extra case feeder with the roll sizer, just hook it up right next to your 650 and rotate the casefeeder on it's stand to reach the roll sizer when you want to use it.

[will_m68]

I really like my 650 then add the 1050 and that is a much better machine. Like others have said, if you have the money and can wait a while get it and don't look back.

[windscreen]

So far, I'm really digging the 1050. The first thing I did was pull the pawl off the ratchet and install SPRSkip's casefeed cam. After getting to know the press a bit, I made a custom setup for the swedge station.

That's the 40 cal back-up rod/expander on top, and my modified Lee FCD die (with carbide insert only) on the bottom. I parted the back side of the Lee die off in a lathe, and used a surface grinder on the bottom side of the die to reduce the carbide until it only has about a 0.75 mm chamfer left. For what it's worth, that is hard on a typical vitreous grinder stone; several dressings were required. I also had to file a chamfer onto the die locknut to clear the press's lock ring.

For the back up rod, I put it in a rotary collet grinder and took down the OD to 0.393". This way it still provides location to a shell if the Lee die isn't there, and it removes the expander function of the part. I'm using a Mr. Bulletfeeder, so I have their special powder funnel for expanding and belling.

Another benefit of the reduced diameter, is you can now put a shell in the swedge station, bring down the tool head, and turn the back-up rod die by hand and feel when it contacts the case web. I ran 40 pieces of brass through with a wide variety of head stamps to optimize the back-up rod depth. It was surprising how much variance there is in the location of the case web.

The only think I have left to sort is the occasional missed primer. So far, I'm missing about 2 per 1000 rounds loaded. I have some ideas for what to look for from another thread, and will be testing them soon.

Edited March 23, 2013 by windscreen