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Gun for Production


kdj

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If you haven't tried one, get your hands on a Beretta 92 Elite II. I played with a couple at Nationals and it has the nicest out of the box DA trigger I've ever seen.

If IPSC compliance isn't that big of an issue the Springfield XD with a trigger job is really a good choice. Rich Dettelhouser does an incredible trigger job on them. The two that he had at Nationals were very light with a very short reset.

I'm sticking to my Glock 17 though.

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If the size of a Sig P-226 is a problem (either grip size or trigger reach) you might consider a Sig P-228 in 9MM. (I will confess my bias. The Sig P-228 has been an issue weapon in my agency since 1994, and I've owned a personal P-228 since 1996....and have been very pleased with both)

The issued grips (depending on when the pistol was made) are relatively narrow plastic with a good stippling pattern for gripping, or a Hogue rubber set. Both are smaller then anything I've seen on a P-226.

As for the trigger, there are shorter triggers available for the Sig's, which can be refitted by either a Sig trained armorer, or a pistolsmith which shorten the trigger reach.

IMHO, the double action first round in a Sig is smooth, and the single action triggers are very nice. I agree that the Sig trigger reset is longer then a Smith & Wesson double action, but it is shorter then a Beretta's, and (again IMHO) not too hard to learn.

Sig magazines for the P-228 have a full capacity of 13 rounds, but in a production world of 10 round limits, that should not be a problem.

Sight radius is a little shorter then a P-226 (due to the shorter slide) but that depends on your vision. It may not be any problem. Replacement sights are available (night sights, adjustables, 3-dot, plain black, whatever)

Recoil is subjective, but the Sig P-229 (same overall size as a P-228) was also made in 9MM (as well as the common .40 S&W and .357 Sig) and because of the heavier slide, may feel lighter in recoil then a P-228. As it is, I personally do not have any problems with 9MM recoil in a P-228.

Kevin, you stated that a Sig didn't work for you, even with a tuned trigger? A P-228 may not work for you either, but it is an option for those who like Sig's but find the P-226 just a little too big. My .02

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I used a Glock 35 when I last shot production, but during the winter break I'm going to give my Sig 226 some playing time and see how she does. After eliminating about 80% of the competition, it sounds like the P-18 is the one for you.

Erik

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The trigger pull on my CZ-75b got better when I replaced the mainspring with a lighter one (15 or 17#)...but it could still use a trigger job, and a FO front sight. I took a file to the rear sight and widened and deepened the notch, so I like the way it looks now.

I think the grip on the CZ is very comfortable.

The CZ does suffer the drawback that in order to make ready, you have to manually lower the hammer while pulling the trigger (unless you get the BD model), which is somewhat controversial, at least around here.

I'm curious, too, to hear how to get in touch with this "Angus" guy, or some other good CZ smith. I'm sure the trigger could be lightened dramatically just by changing the sear/hammer geometry such that the hammer isn't lifted up more during the trigger pull.

DogmaDog

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Gotta go with Mr. Mink on this; the CZ is the gun you want & specifically the CZ-85 Combat.

Why the 85 Combat? It was designed for IPSC competition & is one of the few Production division guns with an overtravel screw from the factory. No need for a "speed bump" on this gun.

What about that DA trigger? You likely handled a bone stock 75B. CZ 75 B is used by more Govern-ments, Militaries, Police and Security agencies than any other pistol in the world. As such, the stock hammer spring is heavy enough to absolutely, positively set off any primer the might find its way into the chamber (hard military primers). Switch out the hammer spring for a 16 lb wolf hammer spring & 80% of your trigger job is complete. Light, smooth pull w/ very clean break, then 1911-like SA after that. Yes, it will still fire any ammo you care to feed it.

The 85 Combat also lacks a Series 80 safety, has adjustable sights, and extended mag release and lacks the 75B "magazine drop break" (keeps mag in gun when release is hit. For safety reasons). Even an ordinary 75B is a great choice & I shot a borrowed one for most of a season before buying the Combat & that was 2 years ago. I know Erik had one of these that gave him some trouble but the BE forum found the fix to that problem.

Do a search here on "Combat" & take a look at the ongoing discussion over on www.shootersparadise.com regarding the 85 Combat. Regards,

Douglas

USPSA NROI

www.shootersparadise.com

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I'm in the same category as many that, although the Glock probably does everything needed, it doesn't feel right and I just can't get it to work for me. I own one but not for competition.

I haven't shot a CZ gun in years so really can't comment. I do like the grip feel of them though- kind of like a BHP.

My production/ssp gun is a Sig P226. It's my old duty Sig so it has lots of miles on it but still runs perfect. Right now it is in limbo until I find the sights I like for it.

I got to handle Bruce Grays P226 at the Nationals and it is sweet. Great trigger, both DA and SA. Bruce made his own taller front FO sight to work with the adjustable sight that is standard on the P226 Sport model. It's about like a small version of a BoMar. Having shot Sigs for 15 years, I really liked this gun.

I have shot a Para P18-9mm LDA. Since I have a P18, I really wanted to try the LDA version. All the guy did was put a Dawson FO front sight and a lighter hammer spring in it. I was very impressed. It wasn't that much slower than my SA P18 and I am sure with practice, times would be very close. The trigger is sooooo light and fast. The gun never moved through the trigger stroke.

Since my other competition guns are Paras, this LDA really is appealing to me for Production/SSP. Other than the trigger stroke, it's like shooting the same gun.

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Kevin,

I think the Para may have a different grip size than the STI/SV guns. It will be close (since they are all double stacks), but different. I know that make a difference for me with similar platforms (I have pointability issues going between a regular size G35 and the larger framed G20).

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I shoot a G17. Short of that, I'd use a Para P18.9 and get the trigger worked on - as I understand it, they can be made to reset shorter.

Those not an option, I'd use a SIG 226ST and let Teddy Jacobson do his trigger job on it. Not a freakishly light trigger, but a smooth and easy to shoot trigger. He did a 239 for my wife and it is the best feeling DA/SA trigger I've ever felt. 100% positive ignition as well.

Paul

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If you like several guns, consider getting the one that points naturally for your hand and wrist [strong hand] Your weak hand can adjust to all of them]

If you want something that points higher than a 1911, you want to look at Glock. The Steyr and Sigma also point similar to Glock but they are not as competitive in IPSC shooting. I have a strange hand - Glock points best for me.

If you like how the 1911 points, then you will find the CZ/TZ/EAA also point the same as that. Hard to beat a 1911 like the Para. They all point "average".

If you want something that points LOWER than a 1911, than look at Sig, Beretta, HK USP, SW99, or Springfield XD. They all point about the same - REALLY LOW.

Best of luck with your purchase.

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While were at it ( CZ 75 and clones) anybody know when the CZ Sp-01 tactical will be available here on the U.S.? This has been approved by IPSC but don;t know if it has been approved by USPSA. CZs website don't mention it any and they have not returned any e-mails.

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While were at it ( CZ 75 and clones) anybody know when the CZ Sp-01 tactical will be available here on the U.S.? This has been approved by IPSC but don;t know if it has been approved by USPSA. CZs website don't mention it any and they have not returned any e-mails.

might try emailing Angus ... think he is one their lead shooters...

I do believe it is on the USPSA production list when the new rulebook goes into effect..

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I think the Para may have a different grip size than the STI/SV guns.  It will be close (since they are all double stacks), but different.

I shoot an SVI and a fellow teammate of mines shoots a custom built Para.

We have tried several times switching guns during training sessions, but I never felt comfortable with the Para grip. I acknowledge my teammate has smaller hands than mines, and he feels the SVI grip is too wide for him.

In my hands, the Para grip feels wider and more squared on the front, while it's narrower on its back, when compared to the Scotts grip of my SVI.

To make a rough comparison, to me it looks like the SVI grip section is a rounded rectangle, while the Para grip is a trapezium (wider base front).

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Rhino, I got an early Vertec in for T/E for my Dept. in .40. They put a more recurved trigger on it for smaller hands, that actually pinched everyone that shot it. I swapped out a regular 92 trigger and it was much better. To be honest, Duty ammo .40 in it was brutal, coupled with lawyer trigger, it sucked (3.5-4in. at 25yds). When I called the factory they fell over themselves to state that we would probably like the regular trigger in it as well. I actually liked the grip, as I am a 1911 person, but over the last 12 years grew to like the regular 92 grip. Full powered .40 in the Beretta doesnt work for me, unless they have done a better job with them they wear prematurely, break the barrel block more than the 9mm, and are not as accurate as the 9mm. That is my plug for the 9mm berettas..... ;)

I am sure they would be fine with the trigger tweaked with production loads though.....DougC

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First deliveries of the SP01 should be with us first of next year and will probably debut for the US market at the Shot Show. At writing the intention of CZ is to have CZ GHOST sights fitted to the next production run of these pistols specifically aimed at the civilian market.

Footnote these sights will available from CZ and CZ USA thus making them legal for IPSC & USPSA production, no change is neccessary to the slide of the pistol. Therefore they can be retofitted on all CZ 75 excpt those cut for the LPA adjustable sight.

Sights can be see here

http://ghostholster.com/cz_home.htm

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First deliveries of the SP01 should be with us first of next year and will probably debut for the US market at the Shot Show. At writing the intention of CZ is to have CZ GHOST sights fitted to the next production run of these pistols specifically aimed at the civilian market.

Footnote these sights will available from CZ and CZ USA thus making them legal for IPSC & USPSA production, no change is neccessary to the slide of the pistol. Therefore they can be retofitted on all CZ 75 excpt those cut for the LPA adjustable sight.

Sights can be see here

http://ghostholster.com/cz_home.htm

Excellent!!! Sign me up for one.

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First deliveries of the SP01 should be with us first of next year and will probably debut for the US market at the Shot Show. At writing the intention of CZ is to have CZ GHOST sights fitted to the next production run of these pistols specifically aimed at the civilian market.

Footnote these sights will available from CZ and CZ USA thus making them legal for IPSC & USPSA production, no change is neccessary to the slide of the pistol. Therefore they can be retofitted on all CZ 75 excpt those cut for the LPA adjustable sight.

Sights can be see here

http://ghostholster.com/cz_home.htm

Excellent..the gun sounds like a good one and the sights look very good...

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