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Free to point gun at face in safe area?


Adam Sills
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I mean, hey, it's your face... :)

So at a local match this weekend a guy had a squib in his race gun. He was stopped by the SO, they cleared the gun and he went to a nearby safe area. I watched him rack the slide about 50 times, try to look down the barrel from the chamber end, then after a little while (30 seconds or so), in a shooting grip put the gun directly into his eyeball so he could look down the barrel.

Were this to happen to me, I feel pretty confident I would take the slide off my gun and get the barrel out, then look down the barrel, but this guy skipped the disassembly step.

So my question, whether rules related or personal opinion I suppose, is it fine to muzzle your face at the safe area?

(NOTE: all the rules I've found specifically mention "during a course of fire" with regards to sweeping oneself)

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Stupid but not a DQ'able offense. I have many a pen dropped down the muzzle in the safety area. Seen many a squib rod poked down the barrel in the safety area. Have never seen someone stupid enough to look down the barrel from the business end. What do I know though, I have a problem pointing training guns at myself and others.

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I've questioned the rules "authorities" as to whether you can 1. retrieve a dropped gun; 2. break the 180; 3. sweep yourself; etc. in the Safe Area, and have always gotten the answer that it's not a COF, so as long as you don't handle any ammunition there's not much you can do to get DQd in the Safe Area.

But common sense isn't all that common these days, and Darwin-ism seems to be the new "Murphy's Law"! :rolleyes:

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DQ in my opinion as I don't think pointing the gun at any person is safe direction.


  • 2.4.1 Competitors are permitted to use the Safety Areas for the activities stat- ed below provided they remain within the boundaries of the Safety Area and the firearm is pointed in a safe direction. Violations are subject to match disqualification (see Rules 10.5.1 & 10.5.12).


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DQ in my opinion as I don't think pointing the gun at any person is safe direction.


  • 2.4.1 Competitors are permitted to use the Safety Areas for the activities stat- ed below provided they remain within the boundaries of the Safety Area and the firearm is pointed in a safe direction. Violations are subject to match disqualification (see Rules 10.5.1 & 10.5.12).


Still pretty vague. 10.5.12 talks mainly about handling ammunition. And 10.5.1 only says "In a safe direction". So what if the competitor faced "uprange" of the safe area, and kept the gun pointed in a safe direction? Stills seems absurd, but I really hate how vague some of our rules are, especially this one!

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It would've been so easy for him to (1) push a squib rod or pen down the barrel to see if there was an obstructions then (2) pull the slide off, and then inspect the barrel by itself if it was determined that something was blocking the barrel. Does this shooter have no friends that could help him out? Sigh...

~Mitch

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I don't know the guy, was just observing at a distance as my squad was next on that stage.

He eventually pushed a squib rod into the barrel. Locked the slide open, put the rod in the muzzle end, slammed the whole thing onto the table and the bullet came out. I also would have taken the barrel out for that part :)

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I'm with Brit and R2D2.

For the record so am I. I just wish I could find more concrete evidence in the rule book. It's sad we don't have the same rules for the Safe Area as we do other parts of the range. Not to mention technically the Safe Area is supposed to be delineated, or "clearly marked" off as to separate it from the rest of the range, but rarely is. So again, it's shades of gray if you're standing 3 ft. away talking to your buddy at the safe area, and you are loading mags. I just wish we could be more clear here.

And yeah, just pull the slide off the gun, and remove the barrel. Makes life so much easier.

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2.4.1 Competitors are permitted to use the Safety Areas for the activities stated below provided they remain within the boundaries of the Safety Area and the firearm is pointed in a safe direction. Violations are subject to match disqualification (see Rule 10.5.1 & 10.5.12).

If anyone on the forum feels that pointing a firearm at their head, or that of another competitor, is pointing the gun in a safe direction, please squad with someone besides me.

If the slide is locked back and something placed in the chamber area, like a white piece of paper to allow you to actually see down the barrel, some may feel an exception is granted.

But if the slide is down, Big Time D.Q.

Edited by Flatland Shooter
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Had a very nice super, super senior last year DQ, and after unloading, he

pointed the "empty" gun at his own face (looked down the barrel) for some

unknown reason. :surprise: Happened Very Quickly ... Very frightening.

The RO was very polite, but I haven't seen the elderly gentleman back

at the range this year.

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Had a very nice super, super senior last year DQ, and after unloading, he

pointed the "empty" gun at his own face (looked down the barrel) for some

unknown reason. :surprise: Happened Very Quickly ... Very frightening.

The RO was very polite, but I haven't seen the elderly gentleman back

at the range this year.

Just out of curiosity, did this occur in a safety area or at ULSC?

Bill

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For the record I think it should be a DQ also. It would be the shades of gray we see in the safety area that makes a difference. Would be interested in hearing form some of our resident RM's to see how they would rule on it. Is 2.4.1 enough?

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If the slide is locked back and something placed in the chamber area, like a white piece of paper to allow you to actually see down the barrel, some may feel an exception is granted.

I did this a while back at practice and got some funny looks and comments. Thought I might have had a squib so I dropped the mag, locked the slide back, checked the chamber, put my finger in the ejection port and then looked down the barrel. I knew I was being safe, but it wasn't obvious to other people watching. Probably why it would be a bad idea to do it at a match.

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I would also have to agree with BritinUSA and R2D2. And mostly with Flatland, although I would say slide open or slide shut doesn't matter still DQ.

Dis-assembled barrel only, I am OK with that.

Ah, but what about revolvers? Would the shooter have to remove the cylinder (dissasemble) before they could check the barrel under the idea that you suggest?

While I don't think that pointing a firearm at yourself is a good idea in general, checking for a blockage in a barrel with the firearm unloaded and the action open (or the cylinder swung out) would be an acceptable action.

Edited by Blueridge
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I think 2.4.1 says it all with "a safe direction" and as such this is not your head, body or other competitors. Last person I DQed took his gun out of the holster and set it (unloaded) on the table as outlined in the stage description. The only problem with this, a) the good folks were still down range pasting targets and B) no commands had been given to the shooter.

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I'm with Brit and R2D2.

For the record so am I. I just wish I could find more concrete evidence in the rule book. It's sad we don't have the same rules for the Safe Area as we do other parts of the range. Not to mention technically the Safe Area is supposed to be delineated, or "clearly marked" off as to separate it from the rest of the range, but rarely is. So again, it's shades of gray if you're standing 3 ft. away talking to your buddy at the safe area, and you are loading mags. I just wish we could be more clear here.

And yeah, just pull the slide off the gun, and remove the barrel. Makes life so much easier.

Chris,

it's really simple. Under 2.4.1 competitors are permitted to use the safety area. That permission comes with a requirement though -- to point the gun in a safe direction. Failure to comply, results in revocation of permission to use the safe area, hence we have gun handling in the absence of RO supervision, and a DQ under 10.5.1.....

I tend to see these before the muzzle points in a really unsafe direction -- kind of like trying to make a 180 call between 178-182 -- so I tend to jump on the shooter with a reminder/warning that just because they're in a safe area they don't have carte blanche to wave the gun around....

Something like looking down the muzzle end of an assembled blaster -- immediate DQ.....

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I would also have to agree with BritinUSA and R2D2. And mostly with Flatland, although I would say slide open or slide shut doesn't matter still DQ.

Dis-assembled barrel only, I am OK with that.

Ah, but what about revolvers? Would the shooter have to remove the cylinder (dissasemble) before they could check the barrel under the idea that you suggest?

While I don't think that pointing a firearm at yourself is a good idea in general, checking for a blockage in a barrel with the firearm unloaded and the action open (or the cylinder swung out) would be an acceptable action.

Revolvers aren't semi-autos. A semi-auto with the slide back, could have the slide release bumped, the slide slam shut, the hammer follow, and bang.....

Hard to see the same thing happening if a revolver's cylinder closes.....

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I agree that it's pretty simple ..... common sense says even though there's no rule that explicitly says you can & will be DQ'd for breaking the 180 (181~190) you still just can't point the gun 270* uprange and directly towords a crowd of people.

But why can't it be written in black and white when everything else about gun handling on the range is?

And I'm sure you're going to say "Unsafe gun handling" covers it, but if so then why not say the same about a COF?

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