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Need help with leading!


h20fowl
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So I am new to shooting USPSA, just started last year and have been trying to find a good cast load. Here is what I am loading.

4.6 grains of W231 behind a 180 grain cast pill. Usually with a CCI primer.

The bullets are cast by me from the Lee 175 grain truncated cone mould. After lubing and sizing they weight out to be 180. I am casting using straight clip on wheel weights. I then lube and size them through a Star sizer using Thompsons Blue Angel lube.

I am shooting a Glock 22 with Storm lake barrel, and this load is making at right about 170 PF, I am shooting limited.

I have read that using a fast powder like W231 with lead can cause problems with leading. Has anyone else seen this happen?

So to help keep from burning through components I was hoping to get some help with what might put an end to some horrific leading I have been having.

I am not looking to change from cast bullets. I have more time than money and I like casting anyway. Cant see spending cash on bullets when I have a source of near free lead.

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you might experiment with different lead mixtures, if the lead mixture is to hard it will lead the barrel. Also slug the barrel and see what size you should size the bullets too. Because at the speed that you are driving the bullet it should only lead a little and be easy to remove.

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Brinell hardness of wheel weights is normally about 12, which is soft for higher velocities. Too soft of a bullet will cause leading. I would recommend adding Linotype to the wheel weights. (You want a Brinell hardness of 20-22 for less leading.) You can also increase the hardness by water quenching the bullets when casting (drop from the mold into straight water (be careful and keep the water away from the lead pot)).

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So I am new to shooting USPSA, just started last year and have been trying to find a good cast load. Here is what I am loading.

4.6 grains of W231 behind a 180 grain cast pill. Usually with a CCI primer.

The bullets are cast by me from the Lee 175 grain truncated cone mould. After lubing and sizing they weight out to be 180. I am casting using straight clip on wheel weights. I then lube and size them through a Star sizer using Thompsons Blue Angel lube.

I am shooting a Glock 22 with Storm lake barrel, and this load is making at right about 170 PF, I am shooting limited.

I have read that using a fast powder like W231 with lead can cause problems with leading. Has anyone else seen this happen?

So to help keep from burning through components I was hoping to get some help with what might put an end to some horrific leading I have been having.

I am not looking to change from cast bullets. I have more time than money and I like casting anyway. Cant see spending cash on bullets when I have a source of near free lead.

Sent from my GT-P7510 using Tapatalk 2

Some have problems shooting lead in Glock barrels and others don't. My advice buy an aftermarket barrel that does not use the polygonial rifling that Glock uses. I water quench my 180 gr Lyman bulllet right from the mold. I get little leading using a soft lube. I use 4.6 gr of Titegroup under the bullets. I have a Tanfoglio and two M&P's in .40cal. Makes major for IPSC Standard Division. When I do get leading it is always in the first 1/16th of an inch into the rifling.

The .40cal is a high pressure round and the bullets should be harder than what you would get using WW alloy. Water quenching should solve some of the problem. You want to be careful using lead in a Glock IF you are experiencing major leading. Pressures can rise quickly and you wouldn't be the first to experience a K Boom in a Glock .40.

Take Care

Bob

Edited by robertbank
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So I am new to shooting USPSA, just started last year and have been trying to find a good cast load. Here is what I am loading.

4.6 grains of W231 behind a 180 grain cast pill. Usually with a CCI primer.

The bullets are cast by me from the Lee 175 grain truncated cone mould. After lubing and sizing they weight out to be 180. I am casting using straight clip on wheel weights. I then lube and size them through a Star sizer using Thompsons Blue Angel lube.

I am shooting a Glock 22 with Storm lake barrel, and this load is making at right about 170 PF, I am shooting limited.

I have read that using a fast powder like W231 with lead can cause problems with leading. Has anyone else seen this happen?

So to help keep from burning through components I was hoping to get some help with what might put an end to some horrific leading I have been having.

I am not looking to change from cast bullets. I have more time than money and I like casting anyway. Cant see spending cash on bullets when I have a source of near free lead.

Sent from my GT-P7510 using Tapatalk 2

Some have problems shooting lead in Glock barrels and others don't. My advice buy an aftermarket barrel that does not use the polygonial rifling that Glock uses. I water quench my 180 gr Lyman bulllet right from the mold. I get little leading using a soft lube. I use 4.6 gr of Titegroup under the bullets. I have a Tanfoglio and two M&P's in .40cal. Makes major for IPSC Standard Division. When I do get leading it is always in the first 1/16th of an inch into the rifling.

The .40cal is a high pressure round and the bullets should be harder than what you would get using WW alloy. Water quenching should solve some of the problem. You want to be careful using lead in a Glock IF you are experiencing major leading. Pressures can rise quickly and you wouldn't be the first to experience a K Boom in a Glock .40.

Take Care

Bob

I will be trying out an aftermarket barrel today!

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My first thought is to increase the size of the bullet. Sometimes just .0005 or .001 can make a world of difference. Anything smaller than groove diameter will give leading.

What are you sizing to now and what do the bullets actually measure after sizing?

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So...could you re-state that in English, please? Layman's terms.

Brinell hardness is tested by indenting the metal with a metal ball (steel for softer materials, tungsten carbide for harder materials), the higher the number the harder the material. Softer bullets will lead more than harder bullets if all other factors are the same, (rifling, powder, velocity, lubricant, etc.). As a comparison lead bullet manufacture's will normally list the brinell or Saeco hardness number of their bullets in their data.

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So...could you re-state that in English, please? Layman's terms.

Brinell hardness is tested by indenting the metal with a metal ball (steel for softer materials, tungsten carbide for harder materials), the higher the number the harder the material. Softer bullets will lead more than harder bullets if all other factors are the same, (rifling, powder, velocity, lubricant, etc.). As a comparison lead bullet manufacture's will normally list the brinell or Saeco hardness number of their bullets in their data.

Groovy. Thanks!

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Thank you for the replies.

I am sizing the bullets to .401. I am using an after market barrel. I have not slugged my barrel.

Harder bullets are not always better. A harder bullet can cause the base not to obturate allowing gas to sneak by and cause gas cutting thus causing leading. The straight wheel weights should be plenty hard for the approx 950 fps I'm pushing the bullet. Although I have some that I have water dropped I have yet to try them out. From what I have read over at castbullets.com water dropping only lasts a finite time, eventually they will soften back up, any experience with this?

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Also I forgot to mention I have shoot this bullet with a 3.1 gr load of clays for minor and I have little to no leading.

I switched to W231 because of the pressure concerned if clays in a major load.

I have the following powders to try.

Clays

W231

Power pistol

Unique

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Your bullets are probably small and you are using a junk lube. Slug the bore and figure out what diameter you need run. Use a micrometer to measure the slug. Calipers aren't accurate enough.

On my Glock the barrel slugged .402. I have two of the lee 6 cav molds. One drops .403 one drops. 405. I size to. 403 and lube with a homemade lube. 4 parts beeswax, 1 part white lithium grease, 1 part of automatic transmission fluid for a Chevy truck (yep, I'm a hillbilly).

I water drop WW only because I can run the mold faster that way. My bullets are 12bhn. I have made major easily with Bullseye, Solo1k, and WST. Those are just as fast if not faster than 231.

I usually clean the gun every 500 rounds. Which in means it gets about 4 or 5 pulls of a bore snake. The biggest part that gets gunked up is the breech face/ extractor area. I run a stock barrel.

I gave a few to another shooter with a glock who wanted to try a few. He later told me he put them together following my instructions and they would not chamber all the way. So maybe my glocks chamber is a little oversize. I don't know, its a Gen 3 I bought new a few years ago.

Edited by leas327
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From what I have read over at castbullets.com water dropping only lasts a finite time, eventually they will soften back up, any experience with this?

I have not tried it, from what I have read the water quenched ones will loose about 2 brinell numbers in a few days and then the hardness will stabilize. (Also read that depending on the alloy they may get harder over time.)

I am sizing the bullets to .401. I am using an after market barrel. I have not slugged my barrel.

Leading can also be the barrel (burrs, roughness, hi-spot, type of rifling, etc.) Some guns like lead bullets, some don't (even guns made by the same manufacturer).

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Supposing your barrel is a bit big, then you may be undersizing your bullets. Try some that are un-sized (gasp!). I know it seems weird, but I've shot over 30k un-sized 9mm bullets from a Lee round-nose mold, and they worked fine. Lead bullets that are too fat will shoot fine as long as you can chamber them. It's when they are too small that problems arise.

Also start water-quenching... really no reason not to.

I would definitely try a slower powder too. In my experience, powder speed plays a big part of leading / non-leading. Unique or Power Pistol should give you a good comparison.

Finally, how much is "horrific" leading? If you can go through 300 rounds without losing accuracy, then maybe it's not so bad. I used to get leading in my 9mm because I used a cheap, quick tumble lube. But it wasn't so bad that it affected accuracy. Every 600-800 rounds, I would run one mag of FMJ bullets through it, and VOILA, the barrel was clean!

Edited by LexTalionis
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If you don't want to make lube I hear a lot of people like the stuff from White Label Lube co. I have never tried it because I bought a chunk of beeswax and had all the other stuff on hand to make my own lube.

I just melt the wax and mix in the other stuff until it looks good and mixed up. When I need to refill my sizer I just heat the pan until it melts and use a turkey baster to fill the sizer back up.

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