Shokr21 Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 We don't have to win hearts and minds, No one is condoning cheating... You are in fact doing exactly that, condoning someone to cheat while using a firearm that doesn't fit in the box! I said I'd let the guy shoot my rig, what more could I possibly do for this individual?! I've notified him that his equipment does not conform to the rules outlined in the rule book, I've offered him a chance to still shoot with allowable gear (my own). Do I have to give up my first born as well?! I understand trying to be a nice guy, but don't bend rules, don't pick which rules are ok to bend. If I saw a guy shooting with a 17L, I would ask what other rules are ok to break during the match! We have rules, and penalties assigned to those rules. Allowing the bend/break of one opens the floodgates for more. Follow them all or don't follow any. If you can't be bothered to follow the rules of the game you show up to play then you probably don't deserve to play. ****************Again**************** I've said countless times I'd let the guy shoot my gun or try to find someone who had similar equipment to his gun to do the same, I can't do much more for the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsmw5142 Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 I say let the guy shoot what he has for the first match. I'm not going to tell someone they have to buy $1000 worth of gear to see if they like IDPA or not. Let him shoot a gun he is comfortable with as long as it's safe. Let him shoot ammo he paid for. Give him a score sheet (or don't if it makes you feel better) and let him know it's for fun and it won't be tallied with the others. Let him leave at the end of the day with a smile on his face and a heads up with what he needs to get if he wants to become a regular. All this not withstanding the uber-swat ninja thing where they just want to shoot their 8" .454 casull at our steel. If a 17L is all he has, let him play for a day. Hell, I'm not opposed to someone bringing their kid and letting them shoot the stages with an airsoft or .22 for no score either since it almost never happens and wouldn't disrupt or hold up anyone's day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fireman489 Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 I say let the guy shoot what he has for the first match. I'm not going to tell someone they have to buy $1000 worth of gear to see if they like IDPA or not. Let him shoot a gun he is comfortable with as long as it's safe. Let him shoot ammo he paid for. Give him a score sheet (or don't if it makes you feel better) and let him know it's for fun and it won't be tallied with the others. Let him leave at the end of the day with a smile on his face and a heads up with what he needs to get if he wants to become a regular. All this not withstanding the uber-swat ninja thing where they just want to shoot their 8" .454 casull at our steel. If a 17L is all he has, let him play for a day. Hell, I'm not opposed to someone bringing their kid and letting them shoot the stages with an airsoft or .22 for no score either since it almost never happens and wouldn't disrupt or hold up anyone's day. +1000000000000000 Thank you Mr Walsh ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shokr21 Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Cost of IDPA: Gun: $500 Holster: $60 Mag Pouch: $20 Total: $580 IDPA is not an expensive sport, poor argument. You don't buy a football helmet if you're going to play hockey! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Miles Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 I'm not trying to be a prick, or internet tough guy, but this stuff irks me. Show up to a pickup basketball game with a medicine ball and you'll get laughed away. Bring a rugby ball to a flag football game, see what happens. The fact is you are coming off like a prick. You're analogy above might be salient if the OP showed up at his first match with an RPG. I've been shooting USPSA for 15+ years and yes we have rules that apply to which guns are legal and are not and I have never seen a first timer chased off due to the fact that his gun was not legal. Our games are expensive ( gun, gear, BB's, etc.)so why make it harder for a first timer. Let the man shoot for fun. I know of at least 15 active shooters, who now are legal, who would not be with our club if we we took the same hard nosed stance as you. Pat Awesome......I can show up at your IDPA club and shoot an Open gun in Production or a Limited gun in SSTK. sweet Strick, Apply just a wee bit of common sense. Don't try to portray me as somebody who would allow that to happen. Pat Then don't compare what happens at a USPSA match to a IDPA match. There is always a division for every gun in USPSA, that is not the same for IDPA I can easily compare the two. I'm not ignorant enough not to know that IDPA does not have divisions. The bottom line, in my opinion, for both organizations is to have a good time and not unleash the rules nazis. Yeah there are rules, but when you start turning away first time shooters who just want to try the game cause the gun they have doesn't fit perfectly you have just walked out onto the slippery slope of killing a club. You do what you wish at your club, it will never be that way at mine. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shokr21 Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Person A buys full blown limited gun but puts a comp on it has 140mm mags, where does he shoot at your club? Open right? but he doesn't know any better, he didn't know if he was going to shoot open he should have gotten an optic and a big stick, can he please just shoot limited this one time?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason237m Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 I also don't like dumbing down or ignoring rules because someone's new. We do just that for brand new shooters, but it's always a case by case basis. Our club is large, happy, and succesful so it works for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimshady Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 i think i'd rather shoot at pats club, sounds like a better enviroment for a new shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick88 Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 To the OP dont mess with IDPA come to USPSA and bring what you own and shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlamphere Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Person A buys full blown limited gun but puts a comp on it has 140mm mags, where does he shoot at your club? Open right? but he doesn't know any better, he didn't know if he was going to shoot open he should have gotten an optic and a big stick, can he please just shoot limited this one time?! Trying to stay with the OP. The OP shows up to a IDPA match having never shot a match before. His gun is one tenth of an inch to long to fit in the box, but is otherwise safe. At my club, he will be welcome to shoot, with some coaching about the need to get the proper gear. Not embarrassed or harrassed and made to either shoot someones elses gun or leave. Life is to short to get hung up on the little stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 To the OP dont mess with IDPA come to USPSA and bring what you own and shoot. And THAT will be the last of any "Us vs. Them" stuff. -- Mod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick88 Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Wasn't meant that way his gun is legal in USPSA. It might be the only gun he owns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 I tend to agree with the precept that anything (that is safe) needs to be done to encourage new shooters to the fold, whichever organization. Many people are real timid when approaching something new and a welcoming attitude is preferable to one which begins spouting negatives from the very start. I was a club president of an indoor club for 5 years or so, which shot one night a week, and we always attempted to go out of our way to welcome new prospective shooters and make them comfortable with the new and intimidating game. Remember, as said above quite a few times, it is a GAME, not a life and death pursuit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Wasn't meant that way his gun is legal in USPSA. It might be the only gun he owns. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Shokr, Your planning and preparation for your first match are commendable. I truly wish more people would (or could) make that a common reality. But the true fact is, it isn't common. Far from it. If for example, you hadn't had access to an internet connection, hadn't read the rules on-line, and showed up less than fully aware and prepared, we'd cut you a little slack because (1.) we would want you to come back, and (2.) anyone at the match who expressed any fear that you'd beat them would never live it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Contender Posted March 1, 2013 Author Share Posted March 1, 2013 Thanks for all of the input. I have plenty of other guns. I just wasn't sure if the G17L was one that I could try IDPA with. Didn't mean to light up a firestorm on here. It really was just me being lazy and asking on this forum instead of just looking it up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 No worries. We like to flesh things out from time to time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fireman489 Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 No offense but I believe your on your own island here Shockr......its just not the right thing to do.....& IMHO will lead to nothing but negative hate & discontent.... Ive seen young kids shooting .22's "to try it out" under the supervision of their parents & a RO/SO.... would you tell that 10 year old "your not allowed to shoot that son !"....just my 2cents.....& for the record every adult shooter totally loved seeing that ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reichebrown Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 (edited) nice straw grab, very professional. Truth of the matter boys, is that this is a game played with things that have the potential to be dangerous if used haphazardly, if someone can't be bothered to thumb through a book that outlines the how's and why's of the game I don't feel that they take the task as serious as it is. Yes it's a game, yes I have a helluva good time, but the gun in my hand is still a firearm which demands my respect. I would, however, offer them my equipment to run for the day, or see if there's another shooter that would do the same if I didn't have a similar firearm to what they wanted to shoot.... ...If your equipment doesn't align with the rules, I'll gladly loan you mine if you still wish to shoot. I dont see how letting a first time shooter use a 17L is letting them "cheat." I also dont see how asking that first time shooter to use a potentially unfamiliar firearm is a good idea. No I do not feel comfortable around the completely new shooter who has not taken time to look through the rule book or is not even an IDPA member yet, but I think they should get a chance to try the sport. Edited March 2, 2013 by reichebrown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnote Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 We don't have to win hearts and minds, No one is condoning cheating... You are in fact doing exactly that, condoning someone to cheat while using a firearm that doesn't fit in the box! I said I'd let the guy shoot my rig, what more could I possibly do for this individual?! I've notified him that his equipment does not conform to the rules outlined in the rule book, I've offered him a chance to still shoot with allowable gear (my own). Do I have to give up my first born as well?! I understand trying to be a nice guy, but don't bend rules, don't pick which rules are ok to bend. If I saw a guy shooting with a 17L, I would ask what other rules are ok to break during the match! We have rules, and penalties assigned to those rules. Allowing the bend/break of one opens the floodgates for more. Follow them all or don't follow any. If you can't be bothered to follow the rules of the game you show up to play then you probably don't deserve to play. ****************Again**************** I've said countless times I'd let the guy shoot my gun or try to find someone who had similar equipment to his gun to do the same, I can't do much more for the guy. I prefer not to shoot another's firearm in competition, especially a strangers, and definitely not their ammo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davehorn Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 It's just a club match . . . remember we do this for fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfish Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 A lot of us have to share our ranges with non competitive shooters the way it is. There is often an us vs them attitude in the non-competitive shooters eyes already. They are intimidated by the competitive shooters, so if someone wants to try uspsa or idpa we need to do what we can to make their experiance enjoyable. Sometimes that might mean letting a first time shooter shoot with a non legal gun for the game for fun/no-score. After they know we aren't a bunch of bad guys and understand their gun isnt legal, chances are they will get a legal gun if they want to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSnSC Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 I absolutely would let him shoot his 17L while explaining, that it is a fine gun, just not legal for IDPA. I would then try to sqad him with a group of guys that would ensure he had a pleasant first experience. Not with some uber competitive jackass looking to flog him with the rulebook. If he has a good time, he will get his gear in order and continue to compete, which will be a win for the club, IDPA, and the shooting sports in general. Its cliche, but, you only get one chance to make a first impression... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 47 posts to reply to "does it fit in the box". Which was answered in post 2. Just sayin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgj3 Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 (edited) Pretty sure the other 45-46 are merely responses to someone whose "extra" answer made him sound somewhat like a jackass/prick/etc. (not my words). IDPA folk can be a passionate bunch. I think that the takeaway from this convo should be something along the lines of "We are all shooters; lets treat each other as friends, regardless of preferred discipline or level of experience. Lets look for ways to grow any shooters we can even if it means fudging rules at "fun" matches." You wanna bring your open gun to my idpa match, come on. Limit you to 10 rnds and request that you bring extra earplugs to share. Be humble when you get beat by a guy with a stock glock/m&p/xd. Edited March 2, 2013 by wgj3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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