old506 Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 After reading Lanny's book a kabillion times and always trying to better myself in the mental game I have been thinking about how athletes tap into this ultra high performance zone when there is a "Black Cloud" hanging over them. A couple of instances: Brett Favre's Monday Night game when his father died hours earlier Jordan playing the "Flu Game" Schilling's "Bloody Sock" Of course there are many, many others..... Is there something to athletes rising up to their current ability when there is some huge outside, non-typical stress? Does their focus go to a higher level of intensity? Is it a ripe condition for a subconscious takeover where conscious thought just can't be handled emotinaly at the moment leading to performance that has a laser like focus? How do we/can we tap into it? Is it possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulW Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Maybe when our concious mind has something else to chew on it frees up our subconcious to reach its highest focus. No cross-over clutter. We just react. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoMiE Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 When you stop worrying about all the other stuff and just execute the fundamentals, then that's the best you can do. Your subconscience and conscience work together, your conscience is an active observer to what's going on and make slight corrections to what you already know how to do. You can't force something you don't know how to do, but I've always performed my best when you show up and say there is nothing here that I don't know how to do and you just execute what you've practiced and know your abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwin garcia Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Don't worry, be happy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old506 Posted February 19, 2013 Author Share Posted February 19, 2013 I guess what I am talking about is that "extra special" performance that you see sometimes when an athlete is going through something major off the field. How do we tap into that........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 After meeting with Legislators and writing letters, making calls, I am pretty sure I am going to find an extra gear the next time I shoot a match. I just hope I don't pull something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon9 Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 After meeting with Legislators and writing letters, making calls, I am pretty sure I am going to find an extra gear the next time I shoot a match. I just hope I don't pull something... OUCH!!! I don't even know how you cope. Best wishes to you. Of course, we would selfishly love to have you move to PHX and I am sure TX would like to have you as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 After meeting with Legislators and writing letters, making calls, I am pretty sure I am going to find an extra gear the next time I shoot a match. I just hope I don't pull something... OUCH!!! I don't even know how you cope. Best wishes to you. Of course, we would selfishly love to have you move to PHX and I am sure TX would like to have you as well. AZ and TX are too hot for me, but thanks... Back on-topic. For me, when all this stuff is coming down, I don't have enough conscious thought to go around so I end up just shooting. When I was running drills a few days ago, my son kept telling me the timer was broken...I was way too wrapped up with work, politics, my Mom's health, etc. to process my practice and I "just shot" and had the best hit factors I have ever produced on those drills. I guess I need to shoot mad more often and see how that goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 I had just gotten divorced, right before I won The Masters (in 1989). I can still clearly remember what my first thought was, the moment after I knew I'd won the match. "There must be something wrong with me, that I could be so emotionally wrecked, and still win this match." I thought about that a lot. And the only thing I could come up with was that since the majority of my attention was focused on my personal situation, when I had to shoot I went out and just shot the stage. Or in other words, I didn't care about how I performed nearly as much as I normally would have. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old506 Posted February 21, 2013 Author Share Posted February 21, 2013 But how do we replicate that again? Without getting divorced (expensive). I had just gotten divorced, right before I won The Masters (in 1989). I can still clearly remember what my first thought was, the moment after I knew I'd won the match. "There must be something wrong with me, that I could be so emotionally wrecked, and still win this match." I thought about that a lot. And the only thing I could come up with was that since the majority of my attention was focused on my personal situation, when I had to shoot I went out and just shot the stage. Or in other words, I didn't care about how I performed nearly as much as I normally would have. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classic_jon Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Do not "try" to do it, just go and do it. I find more and more when I just "zone out" all the little things and "shut up and shoot" that I do my best shooting. I visualize the stage several times in my head and then just go shoot it. The second I start doubting my plan or think "what if I screw up here..." or "if I miss the reload here..." then I will have issues.... At some point 99% of it becomes a mental limitation instead of a physical one. Do not play the "what if" game... just do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old506 Posted February 21, 2013 Author Share Posted February 21, 2013 I am not talking about "the zone". That is relatively easy to hit and replicate if you know how do to it. I am talking about a higher level, beyond "the zone", times where the world is crashing in some facet of life and an extraordinary performance results. Can it be replicated without the disaster? Do not "try" to do it, just go and do it. I find more and more when I just "zone out" all the little things and "shut up and shoot" that I do my best shooting. I visualize the stage several times in my head and then just go shoot it. The second I start doubting my plan or think "what if I screw up here..." or "if I miss the reload here..." then I will have issues.... At some point 99% of it becomes a mental limitation instead of a physical one. Do not play the "what if" game... just do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothguy Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 (edited) When I started sh I am not talking about "the zone". That is relatively easy to hit and replicate if you know how do to it. I am talking about a higher level, beyond "the zone", times where the world is crashing in some facet of life and an extraordinary performance results. Can it be replicated without the disaster? Do not "try" to do it, just go and do it. I find more and more when I just "zone out" all the little things and "shut up and shoot" that I do my best shooting. I visualize the stage several times in my head and then just go shoot it. The second I start doubting my plan or think "what if I screw up here..." or "if I miss the reload here..." then I will have issues.... At some point 99% of it becomes a mental limitation instead of a physical one. Do not play the "what if" game... just do it. I think the secret is shooting without emotion. The human brain is set up to emotionaly judge first then quide with rational thought second. If your emotions are tied up the brain can default to rational thought, like a calm numbness. Good shooters seem to be able to shoot without judgement, they have, at times, the ability to mentally seperate what is happening, with what they want to happen. Like a fine craftsman or a musician, they care a great deal about what they do, they just don't let there emotions effect there peformance. I think this becomes easier with experience, at least I hope so. Edited February 22, 2013 by toothguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 toothguy, that may be true for most people's brain, but not for mine. Having the opportunity to shoot with and work with some of the top shooters, my "opinion" is that every person is unique. What drives one does nothing for another. Anyway, when I am stressed, rational thought comes first and I suppress all emotion only dealing with it days later. The emotional overload can occur and if I allow it to remove me from "normal" that is when I can "just shoot" and my performance goes up. Thinking on the clock tightens me up resulting in mediocre performance. I guess it is kind of like the dead calm after a tornado. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothguy Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 toothguy, that may be true for most people's brain, but not for mine. Having the opportunity to shoot with and work with some of the top shooters, my "opinion" is that every person is unique. What drives one does nothing for another. Anyway, when I am stressed, rational thought comes first and I suppress all emotion only dealing with it days later. The emotional overload can occur and if I allow it to remove me from "normal" that is when I can "just shoot" and my performance goes up. Thinking on the clock tightens me up resulting in mediocre performance. I guess it is kind of like the dead calm after a tornado. I think it's definitely personality based, introvert and extrovert ect. If a person is truly stressed it is usually because they don't have a skill set of plan to cope with the challenge or they don't truly believe in there plan. Rational thought through some sort of training is needed to over come the natural emotionaly based self defense mechanisms. Avoidance, anger, shutting down can all be observed in individuals because of fear when no plan is in place. We all want to perform at our best. What often keeps us from this is pride protection. We don't want to do to well, or to poorly so depending on how your performing, these self defense mechanisms can take over. I think the answer is seperating your performance from who you are. Take the judgement and emotional attachment out of the performance and look at it as an opportunity to execute your shot plan. The shot plan or a black cloud can be a distraction to help forget pride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old506 Posted February 22, 2013 Author Share Posted February 22, 2013 "distraction to help forget pride" Maybe that is it? Maybe Brett Favre didn't care anything about that MNF game when his father died hours before? Maybe BE didn't care at all, zero, before that match cause he was so miserable and disheveled in life that it just didn't matter. Maybe the Conscious mind has a built in excuse, "everything else sucks right now because I am (sick, hurt, emotionally exhausted/in pain, etc. from this "big" abnormal thing I am dealing with in life) that I have an excuse not to do well so I am just going to go out there and give it a shot"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 (edited) This has worked well for me. ok warning it full of bad language, of the best kind Ok the preview shows the F word so I took out the link So youTube search "Chopper Harden the F--- Up Edited February 22, 2013 by BSeevers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 You are probably close. I think it has to do with control too. We can think and control (make deciisons) at a certain speed, but the autopilot speed (if the practice and proper repition were already there) is faster. I think a D class shooter will do worse in this mode whereas once you get somehwere in B or A, then you can perform better in this mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old506 Posted February 22, 2013 Author Share Posted February 22, 2013 Another thought: All of us who are trying to wrestle our mind into submission before the "beep" are trying to do this. We are trying to "not care", not shoot with any thought to performance or time, but if we perform so well in the other examples (when life crashes around us) it must mean that we are caring somewhere in some form because we aren't hitting that super form of excellence at an every day match when all of our personal needs are being met (think Maslow's Hierarchy of need). So, if we go to "make ready" and think to ourselves, "call your shoots" or "see what you need to see", or "watch your sight lift", are we already degrading our performance? Even if we can, say, give the Conscious mind one thing to do and then tap into the Subconscious for everything else, are we then moving away from this "super subconscious" state even further? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothguy Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 http://www.bullseyepistol.com/musician.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 It's a neverending - moment to moment - job, to keep out too much of the "wrong" type of care. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old506 Posted February 22, 2013 Author Share Posted February 22, 2013 Is there a "right" care? In the absence of any care (wrong and right), will the performance be better, meaning as close to our current ability as we can get? Or, are there just levels of care, keeping the "wrong" out as best we can? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothguy Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 (edited) I don't think it's possible to not care, but the care needs to be directed so it doesn't take away from the performance. Below are five of the more common techniques or skills sport psychologists teach to athletes for improving their performance. Arousal regulation Arousal regulation refers to entering into and maintaining an optimal level of cognitive and physiological activation in order to maximize performance. This may include relaxation if one becomes too anxious through methods such as progressive muscle relaxation, breathing exercises, and meditation, or the use of energizing techniques (e.g., listening to music, energizing cues) if one is not alert enough.[41] The use of meditation and specifically, mindfulness, is a growing practice in the field of arousal recognition. The Mindfulness-Acceptance-Commitment (MAC) Theory is the most common form of mindfulness in sport and was formed in 2001. The aim of ACT is to maximize human potential for a rich, full and meaningful life.[42] It includes specific protocol that involve meditation and acceptance practices on a regular basis as well as before and during competition. These protocol have been tested various times using NCAA men's and women's basketball players. In a study done by Frank L. Gardner, an NCAA women's basketball player increased her personal satisfaction in her performances from 2.4 out of 10 to 9.2 out of 10 after performing the specific MAC protocol for several weeks. Also, the effect of mental barriers on her game decreased from 8 out of 8 to 2.2 out of 8 during that same time period as a result of the MAC protocol.[43] Another study of the MAC protocol performed by Frank Gardner and Zella Moore on an adolescent competitive diver showed that when the MAC protocol is tailored to a specific population, it has the potential to provide performance enhancement. In this case, the vocabulary and examples in the protocol were tailored to be more practical for a 12 year old. After performed the MAC protocol for several weeks, the diver showed between a 13 to 14 percent increase in his diving scores.[44] This finding is important because previously the majority of tests performed using the MAC protocol had been on world class athletes. Goal setting Goal setting is the process of systematically planning ways to achieve specific accomplishments within a certain amount of time.[45] Research suggests that goals should be specific, measurable, difficult but attainable, time-based, written down, and a combination of short-term and long-term goals.[46][47] A meta-analysis of goal setting in sport suggests that when compared to setting no goals or "do your best" goals, setting the above types of goals is an effective method for improving performance.[48] According to Dr. Eva V. Monsma, short term goals should be used to help achieve long term goals. Dr. Monsma also states that it is important to "set goals in positive terms by focusing on behaviors that should be present rather than those that should be absent." [49] Imagery Imagery (or motor imagery) can be defined as using multiple senses to create or recreate experiences in one's mind.[50] Additionally, the more vivid images are, the more likely they are to be interpreted by the brain as identical to the actual event, which increases the effectiveness of mental practice with imagery.[51] Good imagery, therefore, attempts to create as lifelike an image as possible through the use of multiple senses (e.g., sight, smell, kinesthetic), proper timing, perspective, and accurate portrayal of the task.[52] Both anecdotal evidence from athletes and research findings suggest imagery is an effective tool to enhance performance and psychological states relevant to performance (e.g., confidence).[53] This is a concept commonly used by coaches and athletes the day before an event. Preperformance routines Preperformance routines refer to the actions and behaviors athletes use to prepare for a game or performance. This includes pregame routines, warm up routines, and actions an athlete will regularly do, mentally and physically, before they execute the performance. Frequently, these will incorporate other commonly used techniques, such as imagery or self-talk. Examples would be visualizations done by skiers, dribbling by basketball players at the foul line, and preshot routines golfers or baseball players use prior to a shot or pitch.[54] These routines help to develop consistency and predictability for the player. This allows the muscles and mind to develop better motor control. Self-talk Self-talk refers to the thoughts and words athletes and performers say to themselves, usually in their minds. Self-talk phrases (or cues) are used to direct attention towards a particular thing in order to improve focus or are used alongside other techniques to facilitate their effectiveness.[55] For example, a softball player may think "release point" when at bat to direct her attention to the point where the pitcher releases the ball, while a golfer may say "smooth stroke" before putting to stay relaxed. Research suggests either positive or negative self-talk may improve performance, suggesting the effectiveness of self-talk phrases depends on how the phrase is interpreted by the individual.[56] If it's not obvious, I copied and pasted the above words from Wikipedia. Edited February 23, 2013 by toothguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
practical_man Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Toothguy I have found athe points made in the Bullseye encyclopedia article to be true for me. Also the advice in BEs book Beyond Fundamentals has been exceptionally useful in sport shooting and working on the two-way rifle range off and on for the past decade or so. As an aside, I recommend BEs book to the Army Officers I now teach in the Advanced Military Studies Program. It is useful on many levels. I frequently rediscover the value of sticking to fundamentals so you don't have to go back to them. Works in this hobby and at work. I inevitable regret it when ego drives me away from the fundamentals of either endeavor. Never had much use for self-talk or related techniques. Sticking to fundamentals to solve the problem I have, instead of the problem I want seems to work best for me. -John DeJarnette fort Leavenworth, KS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothguy Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 (edited) Toothguy I have found athe points made in the Bullseye encyclopedia article to be true for me. Also the advice in BEs book Beyond Fundamentals has been exceptionally useful in sport shooting and working on the two-way rifle range off and on for the past decade or so. As an aside, I recommend BEs book to the Army Officers I now teach in the Advanced Military Studies Program. It is useful on many levels. I frequently rediscover the value of sticking to fundamentals so you don't have to go back to them. Works in this hobby and at work. I inevitable regret it when ego drives me away from the fundamentals of either endeavor. Never had much use for self-talk or related techniques. Sticking to fundamentals to solve the problem I have, instead of the problem I want seems to work best for me. -John DeJarnette fort Leavenworth, KS Lanny Bassham talks about calling mental attention to what you do right because you will repeat the performance you think about. That concept stuck with me. Edited February 23, 2013 by toothguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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