Grip Strength and Recoil Control

[DonovanM]

Everything involving operating a firearm is a fine motor skill. Unless you're hitting someone with it. Or doing cartwheels while reviewing some mag pouches.

How are cartwheels a fine motor skill?

"Unless"

[HeyChris]

Or doing cartwheels while reviewing some mag pouches.

The cartweels actually sold me on the Ghost mag pouches, no joke.

I've been trying to beef up my hand strength and think I overworked my left hand with CoC.. currently unable to pick up objects without intense pain. My "Expand Your Hand Bands" came yesterday, but a little too late.. I'm afraid damage has been done. I'm wondering how long I'll be down for?

[DonovanM]

Yeah, go see a doctor.

[kita]

I've been trying to beef up my hand strength and think I overworked my left hand with CoC.. currently unable to pick up objects without intense pain. My "Expand Your Hand Bands" came yesterday, but a little too late.. I'm afraid damage has been done. I'm wondering how long I'll be down for?

Get a hand/wrist/forearm massage. Alternate heat and ice. Take Ibuprofen or Aleeve for inflammation/pain.

[Xander]

I never rely anymore on CoC, coz the forearms and hand strength weightlifting gives me are more than enough, especially those pull-ups and deadlifts YMMV

[HeyChris]

Get a hand/wrist/forearm massage. Alternate heat and ice. Take Ibuprofen or Aleeve for inflammation/pain.

Thanks Kita, that is exactly what I have been doing. Wrist feels much better today, especially after the massages. I'll continue to take it easy, but hope to be able to shoot a match next week.

[Bear23]

I just don't use straps when lifting weights. Deadlifting without straps really builds the handstrength.

[kneelingatlas]

the forearms and hand strength weightlifting gives me are more than enough, especially those pull-ups and deadlifts

I just don't use straps when lifting weights. Deadlifting without straps really builds the handstrength.

I dunno... My body building brothers-in-law were pretty embarrassed when neither one of them could close the #2 and their sister's pencil pushing husband could close it seven times...

[JD45]

Yeah, beware of the weightlifting thing. I took the #1 and # 2 to work and let three guys try to close it. My good friend is about 40yrs. old and lifts weights. He is huge. Busting out of his shirt huge. He does like 4 sets of 10 on incline bench with 225-250lbs. He could not close the #1. Two other healthy athletic built guys couldn't close it either.

I've never benched over 245lbs max. in my life. I deadlifted 315 once when I was younger, but I can't now. After a year with the grippers I've closed the #2 nine reps with my right hand, and still getting stronger.

The COC grippers give results like I would have never imagined. If you want a strong grip, use them.

Edited April 24, 2013 by JD45

[JaeOne3345]

Agreed with the few statements above.

I deadlift 455 with no straps, no gloves, no belt. Raw. Just chalk.

.....and the COC #1 gives me grief. Weight lifting/bodybuilding grip does not necessarily translate into COC performance.

[JaeOne3345]

I know the G o G u n G a s P e d a l got a bad rap around here because of they way they "advertise" at times, but I do agree in their assessment that having the wrist cocked forward as it is in the typical thumbs forward grip that many shooters use, including myself, is not the strongest position for clamping force. It make work in keeping the muzzle down, but for clamping force? No way.

Take a COC gripper you can close "normally" but still takes effort. Basically the one you train with. Now, attempt to close that same gripper with your wrist cocked as it would be in the grip we all use. If you can still close that same gripper, you are a beast.

I can close a #1 with my wrist in a neutral angle, but I CANNOT close a T (Trainer) with my wrist cocked.

Even without a g a s p e d a l I am using more of an upright support hand wrist angle. For me, I get way more clamping force.

Edited April 24, 2013 by JaeOne3345

[Xander]

It depends, I'm an ectomorph (small boned), 6', 160lbs, before I started weightlifting I could already close the #1 with ease, and after 10mos without training with CoC, I could close the #2 for 10 reps

[TerryT]

I've been trying to beef up my hand strength and think I overworked my left hand with CoC.. currently unable to pick up objects without intense pain. My "Expand Your Hand Bands" came yesterday, but a little too late.. I'm afraid damage has been done. I'm wondering how long I'll be down for?

I did the same thing. Hate to tell you, but it is 9 months later and I'm about 90%.

[ryanbanks]

this was very informative, thank you

[Primo]

Darkpowder, i had the same issue as you. keep taking the antiflammatories and rest it wil lhelp big time. when you can start back training try not to just focus on crush strenght (grippers) work on the other areas of your grip, pinch, support, open hand, wrist. it will help as it strenghten all the different muscles involve on gripping.

Ironmind is a good source to learn about grip strenght.

apologies for any mispelling or other bad grammar english second language

[cpa5oh]

Check this out -

I think this "voodoo flossing" is very popular with powerlifters and cross-fitters. I can't tell you if it works for sure - when I feel pain, I do it, and two things happen: 1) it feels completely pain free immediately (this complete relief is temporary but it makes you take the attitude toward voodoo flossing that it has to be beneficial) and 2) over a couple of days the problem goes away and it is completely forgotten about (which could either be because of the voodoo flossing or that I wasn't all that injured anyhow.) I do know that no rest has been involved in the injuries I've used voodoo flossing on. Basically what it feels like it's doing is cutting all blood flow off to a joint/area (while you work through a range of motion) and then when you take the band off blood comes rushing back in.

Here's another idea -

I've never used it, but if I ever got tennis/golf elbow real bad I would. I believe in deep tissue massage and it's very hard to get it on the forearms (it's easy with a foam roller or similar on the back and legs.) This device is *supposed* to get you that deep tissue massage.

As to Captains of Crush and the injury we're talking about here, I think warm up and balance are key. I don't think you should be doing work sets with these grippers until you're warmed up. I can close one of the higher resistance grippers but I start off with multiple sets of higher reps with the Trainer and 1.0...muscles trained by Captains of Crush and jumping right into super heavy resistance doesn't mix. As for balance, I think Captains of Crush should be a part of an overall grip strengthening program. That means including wrist curls (get a wrist roller with a rope from which weight hags,) sledge levering, and finger extension training. In place of a wrist roller I've been using the "Twist Yo Wrist" device (stupid name) from IronMind. I will get some discomfort in the golfers elbow area (I have a history of it as a former avid golfer) when I use the Captains of Crush, but by the end of the workout (which includes a wrist roller, the "Twist Yo Wrist" device, and finger extensions against the IronMind bands) I feel no discomfort.

I don't really do grip training because of my shooting hobby. Seems to me that what is much more important than my current level of grip strength at any given time is having a really great grip on the gun...and there's a very small difference between a great grip and one that makes me feel like I'm riding a mechanical bull during a stage. I have range sessions where I can't figure it out...others where as soon as I pick the gun up I grab it with a great grip - and the quality of my shooting for each respective session reflects that. For every gun I have I own 3 or 4 different holsters because I never feel like I'm really consistently getting the perfect grip off the draw...I'll have a range session or two where I feel like I'm dominating the gun/recoil and the front sight is barely moving and is returning before I can even physically pull the trigger a second time - I'll think I've got it all figured out...then I'll have a range session where I feel like I'm shooting a cannon and it's like a big loop I can't get out of.

I'm certainly no expert in strength training or shooting so take the above for what it is worth.

[stick]

Great post. Vogel is a machine. It looks like he's shooting a 22! No flip at all

[kevin c]

Some thoughts on the 70/30 WH/SH effort vs actual measured grip pressure question.

The strong hand directly grips the gun while the weak hand grips the strong hand. The diameter of the object being gripped is very different, and that effects grip pressure. The larger the diameter being grasped, the same amount of applied force (the effort made in gripping) is spread out more and results in less pressure. Sooo... it seems to me that, to apply the same amount of pressure, the weak hand will have to apply more force (greater gripping effort) than the strong hand.

[kevin c]

Another thought/riff off the comments previously on grip angle and wrist angle. Is it the strength of the wrist in terms of resisting the upward/backwards break of the wrist during recoil that matters, or is it the strength of the hand squeezing the grips of the gun that is important, and what, if any is the difference between the two?

What is the ultimate goal of having a stronger grip or a "flatter" recovery? Quick and accurate followup shots, right? A tighter/stronger grip on the gun might help stabilized the sight picture, and might decrease the effects of an imperfect trigger press, but I am thinking here that recoil recovery - how fast the sights return to the target, is what is needed. If that is so, then maybe the actual pressure squeezing the grip is less important that how strong the wrist is in terms of getting the gun back on target.

I am pretty close to the classic 98# weakling in terms of grip strength - I'm good if I can close a #1 from a deep set, and a bare assed Glock grip will squirm in my hands even in 9mm. But with Eric W's TruGrip or the equivalent on the gun my grip doesn't shift, but my wrists still break. I run .25 splits in competition and get double alphas. I can get double alphas with high teen splits only with a .22 conversion. I'm thinking that, may be what I need is not more pressure on the grip (hand strength) so much as less movement of my wrists (wrist strength).

Perhaps they're one and the same, grip strength correlates with wrist strength. After all, the muscles that close the fingers are in the forearm with the tendons passing through the wrist. But if we have and hand surgeons or sports physiologists out there, I'd really be interested in their comments. In the meantime, once I get back from vacation, I'll get back to my long neglected CoC's.

[grapemeister]

I'm no expert but I think a variety of muscles and tendons work together when gripping and locking the wrist, or work that involves bending the wrist. Maybe some work harder for the grip, and others work more when, for example, doing wrist curls. It makes since to me that a variety of excercises are better so that we maximize are ability to grip the gun, and lock the wrist. I use the grippers, wad up newspapers, hammer levers with a 4lb sledge hammer, wrist curls, pinch grip excercises, and a few others. I think variety is key for overall strength and balance.

Kevin C,

There are some top lady shooters, and I'm sure some smaller framed guys out there that have excellent recoil control, and split times. What they don't have in strength, they have made up with technique. They have mastered letting the sights return at speed, and some with a very noticeable break in the wrist. Maybe strength and muscling the gun into doing something was never a thought or priority for not only them, but many other accomplished shooters of all sizes, shapes, and strength levels.

Edited May 24, 2013 by grapemeister

[shtr3]

After reading this thread I decided to go to the range and see what my grip was doing and by making a few changes in grip tension I was able to flatten the recoil on my Para 16-40. I keep about a soft 50% grip with my strong hand and a stiffer 70% with the support hand and that changed my recoil a lot.

First string I was getting consistent A's followed by C's AC Ac AC... when i adjusted to the above percentages it resulted in Double alpha every time. Now for my dry fire, I keep my attention on the grip solution for 3 - 15 min practices a week.

Now for the next area match to see if I can maintain when the buzzer goes off.

Good info. Will apply to my next shoot and training sessions, already use the grip strength trainers

[Atlgentlegiant]

Very interesting discussion. I have been working with Grip Master (medium and heavy) for a while but I recently got a power ball gyroscopic training tool. The power ball is very different to use and much more dynamic. It is not so much a grip exerciser as an entire arm exerciser. It came recommended by a couple of physical therapists I know. We shall see how it goes.

[CaptRob]

I attended a Matt Mink class and he he was selling the exact grippers. They are definitely the best ones I have come across. I had to start off whith the sport but moved up to the 1 pretty quickly.

[tomthumb]

Clamping grip is important too, this is what one uses for shooting. I take a gripper that I cant close completely and hold it as closed as I can for 30 secs.

Another good version of this is to hold a penny in between the bottom of the gripper handles. If you open them even slightly the penny will fall. It gives you a great indication of how well you are actually holding them closed.

[shtr3]

I have been using the Gripmasters also since first reading this thread. Started with the 9 pound per finger one and just bought the once above that. It has def. helped me out alot. They are not CoC's of course but they serve multipurpose, you can do 11 different hand/finger exercises from them if you go to their website, they will show you each one.