Reshoot question

[a matt]

I shoot a stage, a target did not get taped from the previous shooter. Previous shooter shoots 9 I shoot 40 so we can see my 2alphas. But seeing to holes I got to thinking about them and missed a target, I made things a mess. Reshoot or tuff because we could tell the difference. I said reshoot. CRO said no reshoot we can see your rounds? Thanks

[Sarge]

Sorry, you lose that one. No reshoot as long as a score can be determined.

[a matt]

Very good, thanks

[EkuJustice]

Never stop or worry about holes in a target. Shoot and keep going and deal with it later

[steel1212]

I HATE that a in restored target isn't a reshoot. Almost everybody that notices holes pauses to some degree. It's something that is there that isn't suppose to be.

With that said because it can be scored no reshoot.

[GuildSF4]

Figured I would show the rule that applies to this question -

USPSA 2008 Rules as amended:

9.1.4 Unrestored Targets – If, following completion of a course of fire by a previous competitor, one or more targets have not been properly patched or taped or if previously applied pasters have fallen off the target for the competitor being scored, the Range Officer must judge whether or not an accurate score can be determined. If there are extra scoring hits or questionable penalty hits thereon, and it is not obvious which hits were made by the competitor being scored, the affected competitor must be ordered to reshoot the course of fire. For the purpose of this rule, B-zone and C-zone hits shall be considered one and

the same.

[Jaxshooter]

No reshoot unless RO could not determine your hits.

[UW Mitch]

But what you can do is be out there diligently taping and encouraging your whole squad to do the same so that this doesn't happen. Or when it does you can throw a little bit of a fit that you're the only guy taping while your squad is in the shade sipping lemonade.

~Mitch

[Sarge]

It's also why RO's should be the last guy to clear the stage. Takes a few seconds to prevent this.

[kneelingatlas]

For the purpose of this rule, B-zone and C-zone hits shall be considered one and the same.

What does this mean?

[Chris Keen]

ROs shouldn't have to do this. This isn't their job. Safety is their job. Making sure the stage is clear of PEOPLE FIRST, then movers & activators 2nd. Those are things that WILL slow down a match if they dont work right the first time. The scoring of 4 hits on a target isn't all that difficult.

[sperman]

For the purpose of this rule, B-zone and C-zone hits shall be considered one and the same.

What does this mean?

If the hits on the target are 1 bravo and 3 charlies, and it can't be determined which hits belong to the current shooter, the competitor doesn't get a re-shoot. Because B's and C's score the same, give the shooter 2 C's and move on.

[GuildSF4]

For the purpose of this rule, B-zone and C-zone hits shall be considered one and the same.

What does this mean?

What sperman said...

[Sarge]

ROs shouldn't have to do this. This isn't their job. Safety is their job. Making sure the stage is clear of PEOPLE FIRST, then movers & activators 2nd. Those are things that WILL slow down a match if they dont work right the first time. The scoring of 4 hits on a target isn't all that difficult.

Kind of agree/disagree with you Chris. Yes safety is paramount but so is running an efficient stage. But the things you mentioned as slowing down a match should include doing reshoots IF the RO can't verify a score. As a matter of fact you have to know that reshoots are very time consuming. Besides that, they rarely turn out well for the shooter. So, sorry, I think it is the RO's job to check for ANY problem on a stage before running the next shooter. Scoring 4 hits can indeed be difficult to score if they are of the same caliber and no RO saw the exact hits made by the second shooter. Going back to the previous shooters scorecard can work but that can be hit or miss. Pun intended.

[kneelingatlas]

For the purpose of this rule, B-zone and C-zone hits shall be considered one and the same.

What does this mean?

If the hits on the target are 1 bravo and 3 charlies, and it can't be determined which hits belong to the current shooter, the competitor doesn't get a re-shoot. Because B's and C's score the same, give the shooter 2 C's and move on.

I had never noticed, why do they have separate B/C zones? Why not just A,B,C 5,4,2 (5,3,1)?

[Sarge]

For the purpose of this rule, B-zone and C-zone hits shall be considered one and the same.

What does this mean?

If the hits on the target are 1 bravo and 3 charlies, and it can't be determined which hits belong to the current shooter, the competitor doesn't get a re-shoot. Because B's and C's score the same, give the shooter 2 C's and move on.

I had never noticed, why do they have separate B/C zones? Why not just A,B,C 5,4,2 (5,3,1)?

Don't forget D The B&C used to be used to settle ties. Rumor has it there is a move afoot to remove the B zone from metric targets.

[aztecdriver]

ROs shouldn't have to do this. This isn't their job. Safety is their job. Making sure the stage is clear of PEOPLE FIRST, then movers & activators 2nd. Those are things that WILL slow down a match if they dont work right the first time. The scoring of 4 hits on a target isn't all that difficult.

Kind of agree/disagree with you Chris. Yes safety is paramount but so is running an efficient stage. But the things you mentioned as slowing down a match should include doing reshoots IF the RO can't verify a score. As a matter of fact you have to know that reshoots are very time consuming. Besides that, they rarely turn out well for the shooter. So, sorry, I think it is the RO's job to check for ANY problem on a stage before running the next shooter. Scoring 4 hits can indeed be difficult to score if they are of the same caliber and no RO saw the exact hits made by the second shooter. Going back to the previous shooters scorecard can work but that can be hit or miss. Pun intended.

Absolutely agree. A CRO having an absolute plan for validating the reset of the course is absolutely the responsibility of the staff and something a good CRO will work out before hand. ESPECIALLY when you have uprange no shoots that can cause issues by being wrongly applied to shooters if not checked. (having been bitten by this one, I know). Efficiency and helping the shooters achieve their goals... it's in the RO creed.

[CHA-LEE]

There is absolutely no good reason why the RO or RO's can't validate that the stage is properly reset between shooters. Being lazy and not double checking the targets is not a valid excuse.

The very small amount of time it takes to validate that the stage is properly rest is far less total time consumed verses creating a single reshoot scenario or even a single discussions about reshoot scenario when targets are not reset properly.

It is the duty of the RO staff to ensure each shooter gets the exact same shooting challenge and stage experience. Dedicated effort is needed to achieve that goal.

It drives me crazy when RO's try to blame the shooters for not doing the work that is the RO's responsibility. If you are going to RO suck it up and get the job done. If the job is too difficult then don't volunteer to perform the RO duties. I hate to be that blunt but that is how it has to be.