When does working out harder become counter productive?

[Mark K]

Here is where I am coming from: Background - I am coming up on 58yrs old. I am 5'10", weigh 215 when I should way 175. Bad knees, a torn rotator cuff, and long standing bouts with chronic fatigue as a result of Gulf War Syndrome. I have always been physically active, but always had a belly. Wrestling and Olympic Lifting as a kid, later Tae Kwon Do, then Running, lifting and Road Cycling while a soldier for 20 years.

Now - For the last 10 years, my work outs have gone in cycles from Rowing, then getting on a weightlifting (Bowflex), did P90X for about 6 months. Recently was doing Rowing sprint intervals, and then started doing StrongLifts 5x5.

I stopped Rowing when I started the StrongLifts, because I did not want the Rowing to interfere with recovery from doing Squats, etc. At present for 5 sets of 5 reps I squat 260, Bench 200, Press 135, Bent over row 175, and Deadlift 300. All well and good.

However, My knees are sore most of the time (though the do not hurt when lifting), my rotator cuff whispers in my ear every Overhead press or Bench Press rep.

Mentally, I want to continue to do better, so I rest on off days.

My question is, will I really truly be in better shape if I eventually Squat 300lb, or Bench 250? Where does it end?

OR do I continue the weightlifting routine, but remain static on the weight or even back off, where I don't need the recovery, and go ahead and throw in low impact (because of knees) cardio (want to do Sprint Intervals, not hours of Aerobics) and core work, on the other days?

Confused.

Mark K

[NMBOpen]

Check out CrossFit. They offer all the things you've been doing, and more. Nearest affiliate for you is http://crossfitdeprivation.com/ - there are others in Auburn and Columbus. I started at 62, and weighed 215. Within a year of two-a-week sessions I dropped 50 pounds. There are other threads on this forum about CrossFit, and GM Dave Re now works at CrossFit HQ and is active on this forum.

[Not-So-Mad Matt]

Listen to your body. If you keep getting stronger, and lifting doesn't aggravate your old injuries, then you're on the right track. If something starts to twinge, back off, maybe for a while.

If runnin' 'n' gunnin' isn't aggravating anything, maybe you should consider a cardio routine of dry-fire in the garage or the back yard, but with plenty of footwork.

[JimmyZip]

Listen to your body. If you keep getting stronger, and lifting doesn't aggravate your old injuries, then you're on the right track. If something starts to twinge, back off, maybe for a while.

If runnin' 'n' gunnin' isn't aggravating anything, maybe you should consider a cardio routine of dry-fire in the garage or the back yard, but with plenty of footwork.

This is solid advice. Listen to your body Mark. For cardio, you can try turning your routine into a circuit training. That way you can control your HR and get a great workout too.

[toothguy]

The no pain no gain stuff is for 20 year olds. Squats are very hard on the back and knees and benching is not good for anyone with shoulder problems. Most fitness centers have a seated leg press, peck deck or other machines that may work the areas without pain. Have your Dr. check your testosterone levels and recomend a longer term anti inflamatory. Muscle rubs are good to use before a work out and stretching. Rap your knees and wear a good lifting belt. If an exercise is causing constant inflamation you need to substitute it for another, you need to switch up exercises anyway to keep progessing. If you push it you will get injured and your body will force you to stop.

[All-Gator]

Hey Mark

You might need to add an important exercise to your routine. It's called push-aways...just grab the edge of the dinner table and...well, you get the idea. Unfortunately , I dropped that from my routine several years ago. See you Saturday.

Joe

[daves_not_here]

Keep joints warm and STRETCH!

Whenever my back or my knees get hinckey I do some stretches of the ham strings and calves. Tight recovering muscles may be the source of your soreness.

It's isn't the age it's the mileage,

DNH

[JaeOne3345]

If you do try Crossfit, make sure that their coaches are actually capable of properly teaching the Oly lifts.

Every damn CF gym around me has trainers who think they know Oly technique but are just going to get their clients hurt.

I don't know many Oly lifters who train snatches by doing endless rounds of them on the clock for time...

[Mark K]

Hey Mark

You might need to add an important exercise to your routine. It's called push-aways...just grab the edge of the dinner table and...well, you get the idea. Unfortunately , I dropped that from my routine several years ago. See you Saturday.

Joe

Will be in Arizona this weekend.

[Aglifter]

Yoga has done great things for me. There does come a time when you have to realize its time to walk away from strength concerns.

Bench press is a poor choice of exercise for anyone who isn't competing in powerlifting. Overhead press is much more structurally correct.

[Mark K]

Guys,

I really appreciate the comments so far. Really do. I admit to being a little old school, I really believe that Squats and Deadlifts really build POWER, not muscles so much.

That said, my real question is not so much should I change my workout (I do that every 6 months or so out of boredom anyway). My questions is: 1) do we continually try to break our own Personal Records forever? Even at the risk of injury? Or, if our focus is health/fitness, and maybe improving a little in the shooting game, do we reach a point where we say, "I will stick with this weight in this exercise" or " this is fast enough in this run", and maybe add a new exercise.

Like I said, I don't think I can add high energy Cardio on the lifting days off, without compromising the continued improvement in the lifts.

Just wondering. Always learning.

Mark K.

[toothguy]

Guys,

I really appreciate the comments so far. Really do. I admit to being a little old school, I really believe that Squats and Deadlifts really build POWER, not muscles so much.

That said, my real question is not so much should I change my workout (I do that every 6 months or so out of boredom anyway). My questions is: 1) do we continually try to break our own Personal Records forever? Even at the risk of injury? Or, if our focus is health/fitness, and maybe improving a little in the shooting game, do we reach a point where we say, "I will stick with this weight in this exercise" or " this is fast enough in this run", and maybe add a new exercise.

Like I said, I don't think I can add high energy Cardio on the lifting days off, without compromising the continued improvement in the lifts.

Just wondering. Always learning.

Mark K.

As you get older your testosteone levels drop causing all sorts of symptoms. A good exercise program can go a long way to hold on to muscle and bone density. I think it's a maintenance thing. You really need to protect your back, knees and shoulders and constant pain means your over doing it. I can't lift what I did in college and at some point you just accept that. I dont' exercise because I like to exercise, I do it so I can enhance the quality of my life away from the gym.

[Corey]

If you do try Crossfit, make sure that their coaches are actually capable of properly teaching the Oly lifts.

Every damn CF gym around me has trainers who think they know Oly technique but are just going to get their clients hurt.

I don't know many Oly lifters who train snatches by doing endless rounds of them on the clock for time...

Ill second the "make sure the coach knows what their doing" line. Two of our coaches at my CrossFit gym have been through Oly certifications and one of them has trained quite a bit with Donny Shankle. I think I'll listen to what she has to say

[John Thompson]

I purchased a swiss bar for OHP and benching (it has parallel handles) and it has worked wonders on keeping me able to do those lifts. I also invested in some weight vests and the perfect push-up handles and do weighted push-ups as the core of my horizontal pushing. Benching I only do on rep day.

[WrxGuy90]

The 5x5 training is a very good and well known program. I did it myself for about a year/year and a half before I got into strongman contests, which forced me to learn a whole new sport from lifting or powerlifting. To your question about " do you continue to PR forever?", I would have said no until I did some research and found a 70 year old female who decided that she didn't want to sit in the house a knit and instead grab a barbell and eventually competed in a power lifting comp. I think as long as you keep to your program and safely push yourself, with proper diet and warm ups/cool downs, then the sky is the limit. It's all what you do to preserve your body.

Here is a link with a video of the 70 year old lifter. I found it very inspirational. She does more then some men in the gym. http://oldmuscles.com/blog/70-year-old-female-powerlifter/