Should USPSA allow 8-shot minor in Revolver Division?

[pskys2]

Pskys2 - You can make major in any caliber 9mm or larger in Revo. So 357 and 38 make major under the current rules. I shot my first year making major with 180gr bullets in 38 Spl cases. basically the same load as a Limited (.40) shooter. I have heard that there is an international shooter that makes major with a Vitha powder and heavy bullets in 38 Short cases.

Again, I think we need to come to a consensus and propose a course of action to USPSA. We have this discussion every couple of months but it does not move anywhere.

What is our goal? "Growth by bringing in Revo shooters from other sports"

What do we want to do? "Allow 7+ shot revolvers to shoot minor on a provisional basis at X match or Z period"

What do we hope to accomplish? "Gather sufficient data to determine the competitive impact of the provisional rule"

Allow 7 shots, 10 pt penalty for an 8th shot (count the shot not score it a miss, would then be a functional 5 pt loss).

No restriction on Minor/Major, unless USPSA worries about older .38 specials with +P+ ammo!

Provisional, as SS did, for 2 years.

Leave the course design as is, no further restrictions below the existing 8 shot limit.

Also hope the SS crew putting on the Revo Nats don't make it a 6 and scoot match.

[toothguy]

Dave, thanks for the invite I'll need to skip this year due to lot's of stuff. Reading this post has me thinking I'm not getting any younger, and I enjoy shooting the revolver, so depending on what ever the rule changes are or will be, I can set up a gun for it.

Edited February 1, 2013 by toothguy

[TGO]

I hate these forums when real names are not used. I would like to know who is saying what! Maybe why I do not frequent them...

Anyway, as a closet revolver lover I would like to shoot the Nationals and want it to matter. Having 17 shooters at a National is a sad testament to something. What, I am not sure, maybe that the system is broken. Obviously having a stand alone Nationals is the right thing to do, if having more participation is the goal. I suppose the best shooters in their favorite divisions are in attendance regardless but we can't even have class awards with last years turnout. I recognize that 500 shooters at the Nationals may not change who won. Matter of a fact I'm pretty sure it wouldn't. Plenty of good shooters do not attend major matches, the best though almost always do. So in my opinion, keeping it the way it is will indeed give us a great champion, but not cause growth. We need growth to sustain any division for the future. All of them.

I know I am an outsider, being a bottom feeder, but I'm very excited about the next Revolver Nationals. I'm fine with shooting a 625. Hell, Julie already broke it in for me.

I can only base my opinions on my experience. There are a lot more shooters at the IRC and IDPA Nationals than the USPSA Revolver Nationals. I'd love for them to all want to get together and have it out! Wouldn't that be a great match, see who's Kung Fu is the best?

Rob most of us do have our names in our profile, can't really say why we use our avatars but there are so many Dave Williams it gets confusing.

I'm looking forward to this year Revo Nats also, no way I'll place as high as in the past but just being among that many Revolver Competitors especially a lot of NOT the usual suspects and top quality competitors to boot will be worth it.

Seems I saw you win the Bianchi Cup with a Revolver and I'd almost bet you'll wear out that 625 before the Nationals!

Just Finished peening the cylinder stop notches on one of my 625's, again.... I think it's the dry firing more than the actual live shooting as I practice more often with the 8 shooters due to reduced recoil.

The idea for the stand alone Nationals came up at the SS Nationals last year (I had a little free time after I got myself DQ'd). When I talked to Phil, he thought it seemed like a good idea. We met with Metcalf who said USPSA could run it at PASA in conjuntion with the SS Nationals, Phil took it to the board and bang, done!

When the discussion comes up about higher round count minor caliber, the options appear to be 7 or 8 rounds. I personally think that 7 should be the number but that makes little sense when you look at how many models are available. I'LL bet few would take the minor hit just to get 1 more round. That wouldn't help nearly as much as 8 which gets you another whole paper target. 8 seems to make more sense as that is far more common and currently the gun of choice for ICORE, which is seen as a much more active revolver group than USPSA.

Getting an 8 shot minor is easier than a 5" 625 ya'all. Several models of 8 shooter are currently being produced, no more 5" 625's are offered. Maybe it should be 7minor? I do own a 686+? I think Apex makes a hammer for the L frame...... New project? Ya, I change my mind. I want 7 shot minor now!!!

[pskys2]

What is our goal? "Growth by bringing in Revo shooters from other sports"

What do we want to do? "Allow 7+ shot revolvers to shoot minor on a provisional basis at X match or Z period"

What do we hope to accomplish? "Gather sufficient data to determine the competitive impact of the provisional rule"

Exactly. Very well put.

With the Revo Nats and the effort, and faith, Phil has shown Revo Division I'd agree it is time for the next step.

It seems a perfect storm gathering for change. Coming to a consensus would be helpful.

Edited February 1, 2013 by pskys2

[pskys2]

I hate these forums when real names are not used. I would like to know who is saying what! Maybe why I do not frequent them...

Anyway, as a closet revolver lover I would like to shoot the Nationals and want it to matter. Having 17 shooters at a National is a sad testament to something. What, I am not sure, maybe that the system is broken. Obviously having a stand alone Nationals is the right thing to do, if having more participation is the goal. I suppose the best shooters in their favorite divisions are in attendance regardless but we can't even have class awards with last years turnout. I recognize that 500 shooters at the Nationals may not change who won. Matter of a fact I'm pretty sure it wouldn't. Plenty of good shooters do not attend major matches, the best though almost always do. So in my opinion, keeping it the way it is will indeed give us a great champion, but not cause growth. We need growth to sustain any division for the future. All of them.

I know I am an outsider, being a bottom feeder, but I'm very excited about the next Revolver Nationals. I'm fine with shooting a 625. Hell, Julie already broke it in for me.

I can only base my opinions on my experience. There are a lot more shooters at the IRC and IDPA Nationals than the USPSA Revolver Nationals. I'd love for them to all want to get together and have it out! Wouldn't that be a great match, see who's Kung Fu is the best?

Rob most of us do have our names in our profile, can't really say why we use our avatars but there are so many Dave Williams it gets confusing.

I'm looking forward to this year Revo Nats also, no way I'll place as high as in the past but just being among that many Revolver Competitors especially a lot of NOT the usual suspects and top quality competitors to boot will be worth it.

Seems I saw you win the Bianchi Cup with a Revolver and I'd almost bet you'll wear out that 625 before the Nationals!

Just Finished peening the cylinder stop notches on one of my 625's, again.... I think it's the dry firing more than the actual live shooting as I practice more often with the 8 shooters due to reduced recoil.

The idea for the stand alone Nationals came up at the SS Nationals last year (I had a little free time after I got myself DQ'd). When I talked to Phil, he thought it seemed like a good idea. We met with Metcalf who said USPSA could run it at PASA in conjuntion with the SS Nationals, Phil took it to the board and bang, done!

When the discussion comes up about higher round count minor caliber, the options appear to be 7 or 8 rounds. I personally think that 7 should be the number but that makes little sense when you look at how many models are available. I'LL bet few would take the minor hit just to get 1 more round. That wouldn't help nearly as much as 8 which gets you another whole paper target. 8 seems to make more sense as that is far more common and currently the gun of choice for ICORE, which is seen as a much more active revolver group than USPSA.

Getting an 8 shot minor is easier than a 5" 625 ya'all. Several models of 8 shooter are currently being produced, no more 5" 625's are offered. Maybe it should be 7minor? I do own a 686+? I think Apex makes a hammer for the L frame...... New project? Ya, I change my mind. I want 7 shot minor now!!!

Great historical info thanks Rob. You make very good points. Ok you sold me, a change is needed let's take the next step into the dark side.

I'm foolish enough to try it with a 625 for a year, heck I beat Carmoney at last years Area 3 with my Major SS against his Minor SS. First time I beat him with the gun of his choice I think! Of course forgetting one whole target array might have had something to do with it. He got so wrapped up in gaming one stage with his 10 shot he just got lost with the rest of the course.

[TGO]

I hate these forums when real names are not used. I would like to know who is saying what! Maybe why I do not frequent them...

Anyway, as a closet revolver lover I would like to shoot the Nationals and want it to matter. Having 17 shooters at a National is a sad testament to something. What, I am not sure, maybe that the system is broken. Obviously having a stand alone Nationals is the right thing to do, if having more participation is the goal. I suppose the best shooters in their favorite divisions are in attendance regardless but we can't even have class awards with last years turnout. I recognize that 500 shooters at the Nationals may not change who won. Matter of a fact I'm pretty sure it wouldn't. Plenty of good shooters do not attend major matches, the best though almost always do. So in my opinion, keeping it the way it is will indeed give us a great champion, but not cause growth. We need growth to sustain any division for the future. All of them.

I know I am an outsider, being a bottom feeder, but I'm very excited about the next Revolver Nationals. I'm fine with shooting a 625. Hell, Julie already broke it in for me.

I can only base my opinions on my experience. There are a lot more shooters at the IRC and IDPA Nationals than the USPSA Revolver Nationals. I'd love for them to all want to get together and have it out! Wouldn't that be a great match, see who's Kung Fu is the best?

Rob most of us do have our names in our profile, can't really say why we use our avatars but there are so many Dave Williams it gets confusing.

I'm looking forward to this year Revo Nats also, no way I'll place as high as in the past but just being among that many Revolver Competitors especially a lot of NOT the usual suspects and top quality competitors to boot will be worth it.

Seems I saw you win the Bianchi Cup with a Revolver and I'd almost bet you'll wear out that 625 before the Nationals!

Just Finished peening the cylinder stop notches on one of my 625's, again.... I think it's the dry firing more than the actual live shooting as I practice more often with the 8 shooters due to reduced recoil.

The idea for the stand alone Nationals came up at the SS Nationals last year (I had a little free time after I got myself DQ'd). When I talked to Phil, he thought it seemed like a good idea. We met with Metcalf who said USPSA could run it at PASA in conjuntion with the SS Nationals, Phil took it to the board and bang, done!

When the discussion comes up about higher round count minor caliber, the options appear to be 7 or 8 rounds. I personally think that 7 should be the number but that makes little sense when you look at how many models are available. I'LL bet few would take the minor hit just to get 1 more round. That wouldn't help nearly as much as 8 which gets you another whole paper target. 8 seems to make more sense as that is far more common and currently the gun of choice for ICORE, which is seen as a much more active revolver group than USPSA.

Getting an 8 shot minor is easier than a 5" 625 ya'all. Several models of 8 shooter are currently being produced, no more 5" 625's are offered. Maybe it should be 7minor? I do own a 686+? I think Apex makes a hammer for the L frame...... New project? Ya, I change my mind. I want 7 shot minor now!!!

Great historical info thanks Rob. You make very good points. Ok you sold me, a change is needed let's take the next step into the dark side.

I'm foolish enough to try it with a 625 for a year, heck I beat Carmoney at last years Area 3 with my Major SS against his Minor SS. First time I beat him with the gun of his choice I think! Of course forgetting one whole target array might have had something to do with it. He got so wrapped up in gaming one stage with his 10 shot he just got lost with the rest of the course.

OOOOH, Sounds like a challenge Mike!

The history lesson is to show that good ideas can be advanced pretty quickly if they make sense and are actually do-able/easy to make happen.

I think you'll be hearing from Carmoney!

[seanc]

Just Finished peening the cylinder stop notches on one of my 625's, again.... I think it's the dry firing more than the actual live shooting as I practice more often with the 8 shooters due to reduced recoil.

I thoroughly trashed a 625 loaned to me doing the same.

Ti cylinder is a must.

Was told the issue is a steel 625 cylinder is a huge mass, and it rotates a long distance(compared to say a 38/357 revo) between notches.

In dry fire, tending to pull the trigger probably faster than real life and it really batters everything pretty bad.

ymmv, I suspect there is no such thing as faster than reality in your case, but its more likely true in my case than not.

[Daniele]

I really hope USPSA will adopt the 8minor/6MAJOR rule to see what will happen at the end of a big match!

Here, in Italy, the debate about which is better between 8MAJOR and 10minor in SS is still open after one full championship and several big and small matches.

I am not sure a 8 minor will be always better than 6MAJOR: I have really slow times in reloading; expelling the not all fired rounds is a mess; the usual 12 round position requires one reload for both guns.

BUT why not? If the patient is agonizing, you try every medicine!

[COF]

If we're trying to recruit from IDPA, a lot of those folks don't like USPSA. Going from a dictated and generally linear stage to one with a lot more shooting, moving, and thinking is not for everyone. Similarly, ICORE has more of a USPSA feel with its frestyle shooting but at least in my area, there already is a very thin ICORE population and many of those usual suspects are the ones shooting IDPA SSR, ESR, and USPSA Revo.

I think you're wrong here. Most wheelgunners shoot wheelguns in any discipline they can shoot them in. Yes, it's a different game with different rules but you adjust and shoot.

[seanc]

If we're trying to recruit from IDPA, a lot of those folks don't like USPSA. Going from a dictated and generally linear stage to one with a lot more shooting, moving, and thinking is not for everyone. Similarly, ICORE has more of a USPSA feel with its frestyle shooting but at least in my area, there already is a very thin ICORE population and many of those usual suspects are the ones shooting IDPA SSR, ESR, and USPSA Revo.

I think you're wrong here. Most wheelgunners shoot wheelguns in any discipline they can shoot them in. Yes, it's a different game with different rules but you adjust and shoot.

I think the population is so small its hard to read anything meaningful into it.

In the northeast we have two active clubs running monthly icore matches from mar-oct or even into nov-dec if ground conditions are safe, within 2 hours drive of each other.

The folks I see at the icore matches are not shooting revolvers in uspsa, they are shooting lim or prod mostly.

[Carmoney]

I hate these forums when real names are not used. I would like to know who is saying what! Maybe why I do not frequent them...

Anyway, as a closet revolver lover I would like to shoot the Nationals and want it to matter. Having 17 shooters at a National is a sad testament to something. What, I am not sure, maybe that the system is broken. Obviously having a stand alone Nationals is the right thing to do, if having more participation is the goal. I suppose the best shooters in their favorite divisions are in attendance regardless but we can't even have class awards with last years turnout. I recognize that 500 shooters at the Nationals may not change who won. Matter of a fact I'm pretty sure it wouldn't. Plenty of good shooters do not attend major matches, the best though almost always do. So in my opinion, keeping it the way it is will indeed give us a great champion, but not cause growth. We need growth to sustain any division for the future. All of them.

I know I am an outsider, being a bottom feeder, but I'm very excited about the next Revolver Nationals. I'm fine with shooting a 625. Hell, Julie already broke it in for me.

I can only base my opinions on my experience. There are a lot more shooters at the IRC and IDPA Nationals than the USPSA Revolver Nationals. I'd love for them to all want to get together and have it out! Wouldn't that be a great match, see who's Kung Fu is the best?

Rob most of us do have our names in our profile, can't really say why we use our avatars but there are so many Dave Williams it gets confusing.

I'm looking forward to this year Revo Nats also, no way I'll place as high as in the past but just being among that many Revolver Competitors especially a lot of NOT the usual suspects and top quality competitors to boot will be worth it.

Seems I saw you win the Bianchi Cup with a Revolver and I'd almost bet you'll wear out that 625 before the Nationals!

Just Finished peening the cylinder stop notches on one of my 625's, again.... I think it's the dry firing more than the actual live shooting as I practice more often with the 8 shooters due to reduced recoil.

The idea for the stand alone Nationals came up at the SS Nationals last year (I had a little free time after I got myself DQ'd). When I talked to Phil, he thought it seemed like a good idea. We met with Metcalf who said USPSA could run it at PASA in conjuntion with the SS Nationals, Phil took it to the board and bang, done!

When the discussion comes up about higher round count minor caliber, the options appear to be 7 or 8 rounds. I personally think that 7 should be the number but that makes little sense when you look at how many models are available. I'LL bet few would take the minor hit just to get 1 more round. That wouldn't help nearly as much as 8 which gets you another whole paper target. 8 seems to make more sense as that is far more common and currently the gun of choice for ICORE, which is seen as a much more active revolver group than USPSA.

Getting an 8 shot minor is easier than a 5" 625 ya'all. Several models of 8 shooter are currently being produced, no more 5" 625's are offered. Maybe it should be 7minor? I do own a 686+? I think Apex makes a hammer for the L frame...... New project? Ya, I change my mind. I want 7 shot minor now!!!

Great historical info thanks Rob. You make very good points. Ok you sold me, a change is needed let's take the next step into the dark side.

I'm foolish enough to try it with a 625 for a year, heck I beat Carmoney at last years Area 3 with my Major SS against his Minor SS. First time I beat him with the gun of his choice I think! Of course forgetting one whole target array might have had something to do with it. He got so wrapped up in gaming one stage with his 10 shot he just got lost with the rest of the course.

OOOOH, Sounds like a challenge Mike!

The history lesson is to show that good ideas can be advanced pretty quickly if they make sense and are actually do-able/easy to make happen.

I think you'll be hearing from Carmoney!

Pskys2 knows I will shoot against him heads up, anytime, anywhere, any equipment, for any amount of cash!

[pskys2]

Oh No Mike, just entry fees. And I know you'll not make that mistake again. Or do I, I have seen it happen twice!

Maybe it's the fever talking, but WTH here's a request to all, and I'm going to send out a few emails also.

Rob, Mike, Cliff, Hop, Sherwynn and Phil if you're watching, contact Phil and get him to bring it up at the SS/Rev Nats, at the least try to get an On-Line BoD meeting, and get the Rules amended to allow 8 shot minor. Hopefully make it effective from shortly after the meeting until January 1, 2015.

If it can get done I'll shoot my 625 at A3 at the very least. Just can't afford a new gun just yet, maybe for xmas?

Maybe I can gin up some support locally, see how I stack up at local matches against some 8 shooters.

[JFlowers]

Pskys2,

I think it would be better at this point for the rule NOT to go into effect until after the 2013 Revolver Nationals. Though I think based on your statement we are on the same page.

[Rogan]

Sorry for the late reply, I just found this thread, work has been kicking my butt the past few days.

First, thanks Robb, Carmoney, Larry for the kind words.

Second, I've been shooting competitively for the past seven years, the vast majority of which has been only revo, with most of that being ICORE.

Why?

Well, that is a pretty complicated answer, with some of my answer having already been discussed by several of the past posts by all of you other shooters. I like the challenge of the revo - it does take a little more effort to break down a stage and plan out your moves and do it with a gun that require some practice and effort to use well. I also learned how to shoot using a revolver first, so for me it's what I know best, my fall back skillset if you will. From a personal standpoint, I have found the revolver community to the most friendly/sharing/involved group in all the shooting sports where I have participated. I'm not saying that the other groups or divisions are not friendly, just that revo shooters really seem to take care of each other. If your revo breaks, or your gear isn't working right, or you need a little help with stage breakdown, or advice on how to shoot better, you almost have to beat the revo shooters off with a stick cause so many of them want to help you out. It may be the small number of shooters that contributes to this, but maybe thats part of the draw, the friendship and the comraderie of taking up the challenge to "do it the hard way".

In any case, I like the revo the best.

So how do we increase match participation with revolvers. The stand alone Nationals is the best move. Top shooter are not going to pick the revolver to shoot in a match when it means they have to give up shooting their limited gun, or open gun or production gun. The theory holds true for most shooters. If my favorite gun to shoot is my glock 34 in production class, then thats what I'm going to shoot at Nationals, if the Nats are prod, limited and revo combined in the same match. The current idea of SS and revo back to back makes the most sense, since SS shooters are used to the idea of multiple reloads per stage. A modest amount of stage tweaking between the matches would change it from 8-shot arrays to a more neutral format and give the shooters who choose to shoot both matches a fresh look.

I would like to add my belief that stage design is the single most important aspect of our shooting sports. I have shot numerous matches where 50% or more of the stages are identical in layout, just different with the actual targets engaged. Example, shoot one target array on the left, then run in a counterclockwise semi-circle engaging targets as you see them. Six stages in a row (out of 12), the only thing that changed was the type of target engaged, ie some paper had no-shoots or hard cover or the three paper targets were replaced with a plate rack or star. I would like to see stages that allow the shooter options on which targets to shoot where and in what order they choose. The top shooters may all come to the same conclusion that way "A" is the "best" or "fastest", but the options allow the different classes to shoot the stage their way and allows individual shooters to pick the way that emphasizes their strengths.

After shooting the Western States Revo match, I have changed my belief about the 8-shot minor addition to revo class. I used to be all for it. Now I believe that it will fundamentally change revo division. As mentioned earlier, the 33% increase in ammo capacity is the deciding factor. It's not the same as the 20% change in ammo capacity in SS. Making the stages 6-round friendly does not counter balance the ammo capacity/need to do a standing reload cause i missed a shot on the 6 round array. Stage design can make both 6 and 8 shot revos equal, but it takes a lot of thought and planning to make that many stages that perfectly balanced.

So the decision remains, what to do?

I wanted to shoot my 8-shooter for the SS match so I could compare what i could do shooting both revos back to back. (I couldn't, it was the Single Stack match the rest of the weekend, I get it and I'm not angry about, I had fun shooting my single stack for the first time in a match).

So who is centrally located that wants to host a back to back revo match where a bunch of shooters shoot through the entire match with one revo, then do it again with the other revo. Then we can compare apples to apples and really understand the differences between 6 major and 8 minor.

Rich Brethour

Edited February 1, 2013 by Rogan

[Matt Griffin]

I stand by my oft-repeated contention that moving from a division where only three or four guns are possibly competitive to a division where only a single gun is competitive is a negative, and that the addition of two more rounds fundamentally changes the revolver game when shooting USPSA stages. I invite anyone in my area that wants to shoot minor 8-shot to come to the Silver Creek match and shoot with me in revolver division. We can start generating data right then and there, and I'll talk Lee or Dave into tabulating the scores as Revolver and not Production. Our matches are usually 32-round burners, so it should be weighted as heavily towards the 8-shots as possible.

For that matter, I wonder if they would let me shoot through twice, once with a 625 and once with a 627. In the name of science, of course.

Glad to have Matt in this. I would be doing the twice through thing here if we weren't having 70-90 shooters showing up for our matches. I just don't wanna be there that long, I'm old after all!

Just for interest sake, I have considered shooting 6 minor, but have found out I can't count to 6 reliably. I just shoot the 8 at ICORE and Tuesday Night Steel and the 6 at IPSC.

Only thing I disagree with you on here is thinking there is more than one competitive gun in USPSA revolver division. we have a couple shooting 6 minor, but I do not think you can be truly, not just theoretically competitive with it.

BTW, I can easily design a match that would be USPSA legal and we would not choose 8 minor over 6 major. Thanks for joining in. I value your opinion as one of the super 17!

Ah, but you forget the 610 Mr. Leatham! As well as moonclipped .38s, one of which damn near beat me at the World Shoot in 2011. Certainly moonclipped guns are the only game in town, but with 8-shots being allowed it goes down from 3 calibers to a single caliber and model, the 627.

Honestly I'm starting to come around, at the very least it would be an interesting shakeup to the sport. I would miss the craziness of stage breakdowns when limited to six shots, but the new blood would be worth it, and they still have to navigate the reload and the trigger.

[Matt Griffin]

. . . but then again. Looking at it another way, in the context of the day, it's a terrible idea. You'll bring in some ICORE diehards, sure, but you're locking out anyone who doesn't already have a 627, and Smith will be years before they stop stamping out M&Ps to meet demand. It's a heck of thing to try and increase participation when the one and only competitive gun is going to run you $1,000. Why not do like ICORE and just recognize a speedloader award at matches, and force it to be minor-6? If there's an argument for 8-shot guns then there is 10x the argument for speedloader .38s. You can go to J&G and buy them by the basket for $300 each, and you bring in Ruger, Taurus, Chiappa, Colt, every other wheelgun maker in the world.

[Bosshoss]

Good thread so far keep the ideas coming.

A concern with the one year trial of 8 minor would be (as Rob mentioned above) it would really have a effect on the classifiers. Some are not 6 shot friendly now and it would be easier to shoot some high % numbers on these with a 8 shot gun. I can see some classifer matches set up with 4 of these and a lot of new master and GM shooters coming after these matches. If the trial doesn't pan out the classifiers %'s will be out of wack when everyone goes back to 6 shot guns.

Everyone is going after the ICORE shooters (8 shot guns) to increase partication but they are a small lot. Wouldn't it make sense to go after the people with a 6 shot speedloader gun they have at home? I would guess the 6 shot speedloader revolvers are 99% of the revolver owned in the US. I have talked several times to spectators at matches who have asked about revolver shooting and why I chose a revolver. I tell them that I'm having more fun than anyone here and that I'm only shooting against other revolvers(yea right ). Most all of them say I have a revolver at home and ask what they need to shoot this game. They don't realize the differance between moonclip and a speedloader but I usually don't see them again anyway.

I will shoot whatever the rules allow, but I will miss the challange of breaking down the courses of fire to make them fit my 6 shot gun. I just don't see it being as much fun shooting 8 shots and running to the next position and shooting 8 shots and repete until done. Sounds a lot like SS or Production to me.

Part of the fun of Revolver is when we shoot a larger match with several other revolver shooters(MCC, Indiana section and SS/Prod/Rev match) we all help each other with stage breakdown and ideas and friendly badgering.

EDIT: It looks like Matt posted mostly the same thing while I was typing.

Edited February 1, 2013 by Bosshoss

[Matt Griffin]

Well, it can't hurt to repeat it! :-) I'd gladly turn over the Match prize for Top Overall Revolver (when there is one) to the top Speedloader guy. I reckon before my arm problems I was spending North of $6,000 or $8,000 each year to travel to matches, practice, buy guns, etc. Of the matches that even had a prize table (few) maybe half of them had a gun as a prize for Revolver, so obviously we're not in this for the money.

[seanc]

. . . but then again. Looking at it another way, in the context of the day, it's a terrible idea. You'll bring in some ICORE diehards, sure, but you're locking out anyone who doesn't already have a 627, and Smith will be years before they stop stamping out M&Ps to meet demand. It's a heck of thing to try and increase participation when the one and only competitive gun is going to run you $1,000. Why not do like ICORE and just recognize a speedloader award at matches, and force it to be minor-6? If there's an argument for 8-shot guns then there is 10x the argument for speedloader .38s. You can go to J&G and buy them by the basket for $300 each, and you bring in Ruger, Taurus, Chiappa, Colt, every other wheelgun maker in the world.

Craig has made this very argument here before and it is the right one.

There are more S&W model 10's sitting in closets and safes and than any other revolver, period. Millions of them.

The speedloader aspect kills them competitively, clear that barrier and maybe something could happen.

[diehli]

I've made that same point in this thread twice now (the first time I quoted myself from September 2011, the last time this came up).

Why won't anyone that's pro-8-shooter address the non-moonclipped 6-shooter elephant?

[bdpaz]

I've made that same point in this thread twice now (the first time I quoted myself from September 2011, the last time this came up).

Why won't anyone that's pro-8-shooter address the non-moonclipped 6-shooter elephant?

What elephant? How many novice 6 shot speed loader people have shown up to shoot matches and given up because they weren't competitive with the moon clip guns? My experience has been more in line with:

Most all of them say I have a revolver at home and ask what they need to shoot this game. They don't realize the differance between moonclip and a speedloader but I usually don't see them again anyway.

There may be a potential pool of 6 shot speed loader shooters to draw from in the future but seeing one or two (or zero) people shooting revolvers at a match isn't much of a recruiting tool. Allowing 8 shooters in grows the division now, making it more visible and viable at the local level, which could lead to growth to include a "Classic" division.

edited for spelling

Edited February 1, 2013 by bdpaz

[Flexmoney]

Point of order, per the USPSA Bylaws:

16.2 Competition Equipment Rules Modifications:

Changes to U.S. Division rules affecting personal competition equipment shall be adopted for a specific

Division no more frequently than every two years except as may be required to comply with federal laws.

Those changes must be published in the corporate newsletter three months prior to effective date.

[Dragon11]

As I've said before, keep revolver division at six rounds, and just like ICORE, make it minor across the board. Let 625 shooters keep there guns but just shoot them minor. People who own there six shot 38/357's can shoot them with speedloaders or have them converted to moonclips, and then let them compete. Get rid of the rule where if you shoot a seventh round your bumped into open, make it a per shot penalty, this would let people who own a seven shot or eight shot revolver still compete.

When this topic has come up in the past, and also right now, I ask myself from what "pool" are we trying to draw the most shooters. I personally wouldn't mind shooting my 625 minor, we would all be scored the same, and there would be no headaches of major or minor scoring. Let course designers design stages how they want, we're use to shooting USPSA as revolver shooters with six rounds, that doesn't have to change. I think people would like the idea of being able to choose from using a wide range of revolvers in our division as opposed to just one or two. In the long run I think this will draw more shooters and make our sport more conducive to a wider range of shooters and styles of six guns, who could all still be somewhat competitive.

Ed Savard

Edited February 1, 2013 by Dragon11

[pskys2]

Point of order, per the USPSA Bylaws:

16.2 Competition Equipment Rules Modifications:

Changes to U.S. Division rules affecting personal competition equipment shall be adopted for a specific

Division no more frequently than every two years except as may be required to comply with federal laws.

Those changes must be published in the corporate newsletter three months prior to effective date.

Ah Cmon Flex were Revo's we're so out there can't they vector a bit off the norm .

But you are right, won't happen too soon. But I still say some kind of forum after/during the Revo Nats in May would be a good first start. Might turn out to be a dead end, or could really light up some interest.

[harleytech]

Wow, I feel like I'm the guy you're looking for. I shoot IDPA SSR or ICORE with a S&W 67 (speedloader) every weekend somewhere in Florida. I shot a USPSA Classic match once last year, but was really outclassed by the 625's because of the Major/Minor scoring thing. I own a 627 and have shot it once in a while in ICORE, but I really enjoy the 67 more. I wish I had a place to play in USPSA where I felt more competive in. I'm in if this can be worked out!

Mike Williams