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S&W Performance Center 1911s


Racer377
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I'm looking at another SS gun, and one that may be an option is an older S&W PC1911. It's not the new Series 70 model, it has the schwartz system.

Does anyone one of these? How do they compare to something like an STI Sentry, Springer TRP/Trophy match, or higher end Kimbers?

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I have a buddy with two and I don't like them nearly as much as even my Spartan. Sloppy fit. terrible triggers, not terribly accurate, external extractor etc. About like a kimber.

I will never buy another SW gun. I bought a $1300 model 627 revo from their PC and it was a disaster. Looked like gorillas had fitted it. Defective MIM trigger lever, frame cylinder opening not square, barrel-breach gap too narrow (jammed on fired brass). I have been seeing the junk from SW for years, thought the PC would be better. What a mistake.
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I have a buddy with two and I don't like them nearly as much as even my Spartan. Sloppy fit. terrible triggers, not terribly accurate, external extractor etc. About like a kimber.

Since I'm the buddy, I have a rebuttal to that comment. We all have an opinion and we will agree to disagree on this. I have a Doug Koenig SW1911 and I really like the pistol. I will say I started having issues with the pistol firing and I traced back to the Schwartz safety system. I took mine out and that problem went away. Reliability (jamming, double feed, etc.) has never been a problem with this pistol. That said, I recommend sticking with series 70 1911's not matter what 1911 you go with.

Regarding the Performance Center, that is hit or miss. I would not spend the extra money on anything from the PC unless I fingered it first.

Regarding the Kimber comment, you won't get much argument from me on that.

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I have one of their Performance Center 1911's and it is extrememly acurrate. Yes it has the Schwartz safety in it, but have never had any problems with mine. Mine came with the Wilson rear sight on it also, and while I did change out the rear blade insert and put a red fiber optic on the front I do like the gun a lot. And I have NEVER had any problems with extraction or jams on it.

My only complaint about is that the grip safety, slide lock, and safety are all blue...they should of been stainless also. I am having to constantly keep them oiled down to prevent rust.

Since I have bought it, I have also bought several STI's. And I really like the fact that they do not have any of that Schwartz safety crap on them. If I had to do it all over again, I would not hesitate to buy the S&W 1911 again.

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i had a pc1911 and it was a decent gun, never an issue with the 80 series. but when i held the smith sw1911sc e series it felt 10 tmes better in my hand.......sold the pc and bought the e series.... would rather stay with 70 series...

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Regarding the Kimber comment, you won't get much argument from me on that.

I have an original Kimber from yonkers NY and it is buy far the best 1911 factory gun I have ever owned and I have had them all at somepoint. Having said that since they sold out I hear the ones being made now are not up to the old standards.

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  • 11 months later...

I have a DOUG KOENIG that was loaned to me to try out and now is turning into a possible sale but it needs to have some issues resolved before i would actually run it in a match. Whoe hear actually owns a S&W DOUG KOENIG model 1911?

What problems have your encountered and how did the external extractor hold up after a a few thousand rounds and how did it function running and gunnin?

He said if i dont want it for $1100 he will take it back and sell it on an auction site. What are they worht,i cant find them for sale anywhere with a current price?

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My S&W Performance Center 1911 has the same external extractor as does the Doug Koenig model and I don't have any problems. Read my post above yours...I would guess I have at least 3-3500 rounds through it without any problems from the extractor or the Schwartz safety. My only complaint is that the grip safety is blue rather than stainless so I have to keep it oiled to prevent rust.

You will find a lot of 1911 Die Hard fans out there that don't like change and will always dislike it. Many years ago Kimber had a 1911 with an external extractor and they had nothing but problems with them, and discontinued it, while S&W did it right.

While I would rather see them take the whole Schwartz safety thing awaym I keep mine in place due to IDPA rules.

Edited by GlockCanMan
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As I mention in your other thread kimbertarget, there is a DK in my circle of friends that has been shot in match conditions extensively and it runs just fine and has held its fit and trigger pull.

To the OP, I have a pro series 9 and my only complaint is the grip safety because the Schwartz system puts a little grittiness in its function. Out of all the 1911s I own and even more that I've shot, its the only one that I have a pattern of not always disengaging the grip safety when I draw.

On the merits of the guns themselves though all the sw1911 I've seen are well worth the money. Don't expect a $2k like 1911...but then again you aren't paying $2k. One gets what they pay for in a 1911. I would compare it directly to my trp and guns like it. Sweet 9mm 1911 are the most reliable 9mm SS game guns I've encountered as that chambering tends to run finicky in this platform.

Edited by ambluemax
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My S&W Performance Center 1911 has the same external extractor as does the Doug Koenig model and I don't have any problems. Read my post above yours...I would guess I have at least 3-3500 rounds through it without any problems from the extractor or the Schwartz safety. My only complaint is that the grip safety is blue rather than stainless so I have to keep it oiled to prevent rust.

You will find a lot of 1911 Die Hard fans out there that don't like change and will always dislike it. Many years ago Kimber had a 1911 with an external extractor and they had nothing but problems with them, and discontinued it, while S&W did it right.

While I would rather see them take the whole Schwartz safety thing awaym I keep mine in place due to IDPA rules.

I do not own a S&W 1911 but do own Sig 1911 Tacops with 3000 plus rds through it and it has an External Extractor. It runs faultlessly. I believe many of the gripes about the external extractor are unfounded. Maybe some companies did not do it right but Sig was not one of them. Edited by Mikethor
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I'm looking at another SS gun, and one that may be an option is an older S&W PC1911. It's not the new Series 70 model, it has the schwartz system.

Does anyone one of these? How do they compare to something like an STI Sentry, Springer TRP/Trophy match, or higher end Kimbers?

05e8f1516bda4e423b6df97ac63d833a.jpg

I just posted a thread on this DOUG KOENIG S&W

I wouldnt choose ANY standard production external extractor S&W 1911s,but if i had to pick either a KIMBER (there is no actual CUSTOM SHOP just higherline production models) or if i was forced to carry/compete with this DOUG KOENIG S&W, I would say the KIMBER GRAND RAPTOR II is equal in performance and as better cocking serrations, the DOUG KOENIG is almost smooth and with sweaty hands in a stress fire scenario with a heavy recoil spring you would have a hard time getting a strong purchase on the slide to cycle it. Besides the slide serrations being too smooth, the ambi safety dug into my strong hand knuckle joint and it didnt like certain mags.

The question should be for what price point and NEW/USED what 1911 out of (list what you like and feels good) because 1911s are subjective and you can only ask people who have shot them what issues they may have encountered,so you can avoid them. But in the case of the two examples i provided you can reas my thread or PM me,i recorded a few videos testing the S&W DOUG KOENIG 1911 with different mags and ammo. You would be surprised to hear a certain name brand magazine WOULD NOT WORK at all,since it wouldnt allow the mag catch to engage due to the S&W MAGWELL!

Pm me for info...good luck with your hunt for the 1911 that you enjoy shooting.

I think the D.K. Would be ok for someone with some small mods. I think my buddy only wants $975 for it now. Thats better than buying a PHILIPINO STI SPARTAN. Just because its a name brand doesnt mean its quality.ARMSCOR and S.A.M. Make so many "USA" made assumed 1911s. Do your research. $500 new IVER JOHNSON EAGLE and a S.T.I. SPARTAN are both made in PHILIPPINES among many many others. In that case i much rather spend $1000 and buy the DOUG KOENIG S&W. I told one of my buddies who is young (mid 20s) and doesnt have arthritis like i do and the slide serrations work fine for him, he should buy this DK since i can get it for a good cheap price and its only had about 500rounds through it. I was going to just charge $50.00 over for him which i still think is a fair price for one of these.

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Edited by Kimbertarget
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STI sentry or the trojan (every one I've seen seems like a real nice pistol.

DW Heritage with a few upgrades, safety, Magwell etc. which most will require, etc

Baer as some else suggested, Still needs a magwell usually

Personal opinion!!! Don't mess with anything that has an additional internal safety, not needed!

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