Jump to content
Brian Enos's Forums... Maku mozo!

Two questions on reloads


Esther
 Share

Recommended Posts

Hi, I'm just starting to work on my reloads and have been practicing them slow and smooth just looking the spare mag into the well. I also do them with my eyes closed and can - if I do them slowly - feel my hands' relation to each other in space and slide the mag in, though sometimes it catches a bit. I'm about two and a half weeks into working on mag changes and have a couple questions:

1) I can't reach the mag release button on my CZ without changing my grip. I've tried several techniques of adjusting my hand position, and the one that seems to work best (or at least feels most natural) is what Shannon Smith does, which is to flip the gun in his hand so that his thumb lands on the mag release. The problem is, I am WAY too slow in hitting the mag release and I don't always hit it right the first time. (When this happens, I follow through and hit it again since in competition, I can't start over when I screw up, but I'd really like to avoid it happening in the first place.) Any ideas?

2) I practiced mag changes with a par timer for the first time yesterday and am super slow. I can do a consistent mag change and target transition in 2.5 sec (don't laugh!), 2.9 if I'm pulling the trigger as well. (I am also too slow in pulling the trigger once I have an acceptable sight picture, but that is another post..). When I do slow, smooth reloads I feel like my body is sensing its relation to itself, and I can "feel" my hands meeting along the same line, the same angle. But when I try to speed up I totally lose that sense and am just trying to jam the mag into the well as fast as I can. I know that the top guys can do reloads in well under a second -- my question is, do I get to that point by gradually speeding up my smooth and slow reloads and only doing some where I go so fast that I "lose" my body sense? Will it gradually become second nature for me to execute a reload at top speed without feeling like I am rushing or not confident of my body orientation?

I'm aware of Burkett reloads and think that may help me to be much faster in grabbing a spare mag and bringing my hand up to the mag well. So I'll try that tomorrow.

Thanks so much! This forum is awesome.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You might want to try this:

Instead of changing your grip, when the pistol goes to slide load or you are ready for your reload, use your other thumb,(left in my case) and hit the mag release button with your off hand thumb. It will take a little practice, but I have had some sub .5 reloads that way.

Mike

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't try and push your self fast. Just be quick in the time it takes you to dump the used mag and grab the new mag from belt. Bring the new mag to the gun as fast as possible then slow down just enough to get the mag in the mag well. Inserting your mag will be the slowest portion of your reload so make that smooth as possible.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You might want to try this:

Instead of changing your grip, when the pistol goes to slide load or you are ready for your reload, use your other thumb,(left in my case) and hit the mag release button with your off hand thumb. It will take a little practice, but I have had some sub .5 reloads that way.

Mike

Pardon me for my skepticism, but I don't believe a word of a .5 reload, especially if you're using your left thumb to hit the mag release button.

My advice is to just keep practicing. Especially develop a dryfire routine just for reloading, and watch your performance improve commensurate with the work you out in.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From what you've written it appears as though you're on the right track. Consistently good mag changes take a lot of practice. I too have to shift the gun in my hand to reach the mag release. One thing I found that helps with that is to bring the elbow in towards my body more when I am bringing the gun closer to my face for the mag change. It kind of makes everything less ackward for those of us that have to shift the gun in our hands.

I also practice a lot of just shifting the gun in my hand over and over whith out actually doing a mag change. I do that a lot while watching TV or sometimes when I'm in the John. While doing it I try to keep the muzzle pointed down range, or straight ahead as much as possible. So it's kind of like the gun is suspened in air with invisible string, and I'm shifting my hand around the stationary gun.

Again, try tucking your elbow a little more, I think you'll find that it helps. Also, sometimes it helps to paint a small red or white dot just inside the magwell, and see that dot everytime you do a mag change.

Good luck,

Chris

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Depending on your individual anatomy, it might be possible for you to reach the mag button with the middle finger of your strong hand, reaching under the trigger guard, and without having to shift the gun in your hand. It can be a very fast technique. It helps to have a large mag release button and a light spring in the catch.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the replies, guys! Mike, I tried hitting it with my left thumb and it doesn't seem to work for me... though that was a good idea and I'll give it some more tries. Chris - bringing my elbow in does seem to make it easier to shift my grip on the gun. Working on shifting my gun in my hand over and over without doing an actual mag change is also a good idea.

Kevin, thanks for the suggestion, but I can't reach the mag release with the third finger of my gun hand at all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The finger to use is the, ah, "expressive" one in the middle, next to the trigger finger, not the third or ring finger. But even so, it doesn't work for a lot of people. It did work for me with a Limited gun, but doesn't with my Production Glocks, given the requirement for an unaltered factory mag release button.

I have very small hands (size 6 1/2 glove). I have to shift the Glocks to hit the release. It takes some practice and experimentation to see what works for you as a basic technique, and then a LOT of practice to make it fast and reliable.

Come to practice at Richmond on Saturdays if you can. There are many experienced shooters who will be glad to offer advice, both good and bad ;-D.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most people cannot reach a mag release while the weapon is properly gripped. What works for a lot of shooters is to pull the gun to your left with the trigger guard. This puts the mag release under your thumb while you grab your new mag. When you seat the new mag you can push the pistol back with your left thumb.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most people cannot reach a mag release while the weapon is properly gripped. What works for a lot of shooters is to pull the gun to your left with the trigger guard. This puts the mag release under your thumb while you grab your new mag. When you seat the new mag you can push the pistol back with your left thumb.

I have fairly large hands and can reach the release but found I was not consistent it unless I shifted my grip a little. I also found I was smoother inserting the fresh mag if the shooting hand was back in it's normal firing grip. So I learned to reset my grip immediately after the old mag dropped free.

Dwight

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What are your goals?

If its to just increase speed then follow the advice of using weak hand or other fingers, etc.......

If you wanna be a M/GM and win you might wanna follow what all of them do. They don't do the above.

Ok you might find one than doesn't, follow that pied piper too ;0

I once knew a M that shot barefoot too. I'll keep my Salomon's which are a genuine equipment advantage

PS .40 to pull the trigger? I'm gonna pick on you. Dude I can shoot 2 shots in that time in any division, Ok maybe not Revo, you got me. Oh I am adding something here after reading responses again, I see your a Dudette Well all still applies. I guess that you probably have smaller hands. So do a ton of GM's. Jerry B used to shift his grip even with an extended button. If you are shooting a division that allows it, get a extended button. Remember you might have to train with it to get it to work.

Seriously get some training before you decide to win your Area cause it will take 3 times effort to Train Out incorrect technique

As to your question 2

Eight Thousand Reps for each technique

Google it if you have never heard of it

Edited by BSeevers
Link to comment
Share on other sites

BSeevers - you should pick on me even though I am a "dudette," otherwise I will never get good! I realize my trigger press is absurdly slow and am working on it! I want to make M/GM and have to start somewhere. When I get really good it will make a better story how slow I was at the start.

So it sounds like I should focus on smooth form, do tons of reps, and allow the speed to come as I become more familiar with the movement?

I did more reloads last night and found that if I focused on getting my support hand down to my mag pouch as quickly as possible, I had less trouble hitting the mag release. Eventually I want it to become all one programmed sequence in my brain (i.e., "Change mag!"), but right now I need to consciously learn the motions.

Thanks so much for all the suggestions. Y'all are so helpful! :-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Esther,

On your reloads, you're certainly on the right track with the objective of making it feel/seem like one action. The analysis you are doing now, the whole breakdown into discrete steps, is fundamentally important and will help you get there.

Use of a timer is a good idea. If I might suggest, when you're starting out, be generous with the par time to ensure that you allow yourself the opportunity to do quality exercises. When you become satisfied that you've done enough reps that you can nail it on demand at or just under the par time, then tighten it up in .25 second increments. Rinse, repeat. Also, take breaks and then come back to it so that you can judge how well you can do the exercise cold.

If you have time, take a little video of yourself doing your dryfire reload and post it in the Video training sub-fo. Make sure you include basic details (CZ platform) and your concerns i.e. smaller hands, reaching the mag release, etc...) Reloads are one of the most frequent topics there and you'll get lots of helpful suggestions.

Hope to see you at the range.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You might want to try this:

Instead of changing your grip, when the pistol goes to slide load or you are ready for your reload, use your other thumb,(left in my case) and hit the mag release button with your off hand thumb. It will take a little practice, but I have had some sub .5 reloads that way.

Mike

Is that time a typo?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know if its possible to set up a CZ with the mag release button reversed so you can push it with your trigger finger. But that could be a solution. If you plan to stick with Production you might consider checking out an S&W M&P. I believe the M&P has the shortest reach to the mag release. Also the M&P comes stock with a reversible mag release. Since you have just a little time invested in the CZ you may want to consider switching platforms. Don't get me wrong, CZ's are great. But each of us needs the platform that fits us the best.

Keith

Link to comment
Share on other sites

BSeevers - you should pick on me even though I am a "dudette," otherwise I will never get good! I realize my trigger press is absurdly slow and am working on it! I want to make M/GM and have to start somewhere. When I get really good it will make a better story how slow I was at the start.

So it sounds like I should focus on smooth form, do tons of reps, and allow the speed to come as I become more familiar with the movement?

I did more reloads last night and found that if I focused on getting my support hand down to my mag pouch as quickly as possible, I had less trouble hitting the mag release. Eventually I want it to become all one programmed sequence in my brain (i.e., "Change mag!"), but right now I need to consciously learn the motions.

Thanks so much for all the suggestions. Y'all are so helpful! :-)

Well I was so bad when I started I was scary and a little dangerous. As in any sport learn proper technique and then "work" it into the subconscious with reps and plain old work. Fundamentals are always the core of any high performance.

Dry fire with par times is one of secrets to getting there.

So you want M/GM? Learn the right stuff cause its a road that requires commitment,time and work. Don't waste time and energy on detours and backtracking.

Now that I know I will pick on you relentlessly. You are right on with the rapid movement to the mag. Its one of the secrets and thats why you can't be pushing release with your weak hand

Hang around the best shooters you can. There are a few M/GMs that couldn't teach someone how to walk to the shooting bay (just not good teachers) but the majority know a bit about shooting

Shameless plug for my buddy Steve Anderson. His stuff will help a lot at this point in your career.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You can set up the CZ shadow with the mag release on either side. you may not want to switch it, you dont need to get the hole thumb on the button with a CZ if you can get the tip of your thumb just onto the smooth part of the release you can reliably drop mags without having to shift your grip. Or watch max michel's video he shows how he switches grips on the reloads, you can find it on youtube.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks everyone. Jon, the belt and mag pouches you loaned me are helping me so much, thanks! And yes, will make it out to Richmond soon.

BSeevers - good! Pick on me as relentlessly as possible. I got a timer for Christmas and used the par feature for the first time four nights ago; that was when I realized how slow my mag changes were and posted here asking for help! Just got Steve's book and am starting to go through the drills!

ddpenn - thanks for the tip on Max Michel's video, will check that out.

Edited by Esther
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the replies, guys! Mike, I tried hitting it with my left thumb and it doesn't seem to work for me... though that was a good idea and I'll give it some more tries. Chris - bringing my elbow in does seem to make it easier to shift my grip on the gun. Working on shifting my gun in my hand over and over without doing an actual mag change is also a good idea.

Kevin, thanks for the suggestion, but I can't reach the mag release with the third finger of my gun hand at all.

I generally can't reach the mag button without shifting my hand unless it's extended and oversized . On my SS gun i just incorporated a kind of wrist flip / shift where i hit the button and then shift the gun back to my master grip in one motion. Just make sure you aren't whiping your muzzle around too much, don't want to break the 180

Edited by thegunnerd
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you are still having problems with your CZ, you could possibly consider a used HK USP or P30 or a Walther PPQ or PPS. These pistols do not have a button, instead they have ambi levers integrated into the trigger guard which I use my shooting hand's middle finger to release. It is something to think about if you were in the market to do some horse trading, but it isn't the be all end all of magazine releases.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...