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Single Stack, unloaded table start, carrying mags in hands


aztecdriver
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Question posed - the stage is a fairly lengthy long course. Table start uprange, unloaded, all mags on the table.

Single stack shooter stuffs two in pouches, charges one and grabs two more in weak hand - shoots the course. Very impractical retreat to retrieve additional mags from table.

Does this violate 5.2.4

For clarity, there is no stipulation that all reloads must come from the table. Just the start position, and shoot them as you see them.

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Ken...what's to say you are not using the mags in hands to reload?

5.2.4 says "..Shall be carried in retention devices.." yet later says "...may also carry in appearal pockets...". Since it doesn't specifically say you can't carry them in your hand, then it must be legal. IMO.

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Might want to read the rulings on the NROI website... http://www.uspsa.org...ils.php?indx=48

Very clear that holding in hands is perfectly fine...

The real question is that at the xxxx match, the RM was telling the staff that single stack and production cannot use pockets, magnets or anything other than a mag pouch, period. I asked for where that was posted as it was not a published ruling and they said they got an email from Amidon. Not worth pushing it for me, but before next major match, I need to know where the official ruling is posted about pockets if one even exists...

Edited by ima45dv8
: just a wee bit too specific
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Might want to read the rulings on the NROI website... http://www.uspsa.org...ils.php?indx=48

Very clear that holding in hands is perfectly fine...

The real question is that at the xxxx match, the RM was telling the staff that single stack and production cannot use pockets, magnets or anything other than a mag pouch, period. I asked for where that was posted as it was not a published ruling and they said they got an email from Amidon. Not worth pushing it for me, but before next major match, I need to know where the official ruling is posted about pockets if one even exists...

LOL, an email from Amidon is not a vaild defense when you're a shooter, but in this case it is for the RO?? Nice.

The magnet issue has been discussed on another thread here, and I think it came down to: 2013 they are supposed to be illegal for Production/Single Stack. However the rule book has not be rewritten yet, nor has a ruling been made. Therefore, until they are, it it technically legal...or maybe not. General consensus was to ditch the magnet and be on the safe side.

As for pockets....um...no, they were wrong. You cited one ruling already, which covers during the COF. The other ruling was made to show that you CAN load and unload into a front pocket. http://www.uspsa.org...ils.php?indx=51

It's rare for me to use a pocket, so I don't worry about this. But for those that do, seems like the rules and rulings are on your side. For the RO and staff stating otherwise, unless they can show you the rule/ruling, they are wrong. IMO.

**note to self...print these rulings out so I have them for back up in case I run into the same issue as Randy**

Edited by ima45dv8
: same specificity removed - sorry
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5.2.4 During the course of fire, after the start signal, unless stipulated otherwise in the stage procedure, spare ammunition, magazines and/or speed

loading devices shall be carried in retention devices attached to the

competitor's belt and specifically designed for that purpose. Unless

specifically prohibited in the Written Stage Briefing, a competitor may

also carry additional magazines or speed loading devices in apparel

pocket(s) and retrieve and use them without penalty, providing that the

location of the apparel pocket does not violate the requirements of

Appendix D, Item 12 (subject to the provisions of Rule 6.2.5.1).

Write it into the WSB and no pockets, otherwise legal to use them.

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Exactly. Didn't affect me as I've gone to 6 pouches and only pouches and only 8 rounds in each mag just to avoid any distractions at the line. For this stage, I talked to the RM the day before I shot the stage to get 100% confirmation that I won't have RO issues. Also, I make sure I go to the RM before the match and ask them to measure/validate my holster as it puts the gun 1.8" from the inside of my belt and some ROs will try to call me out on it. Bottom line, it's easy to get things straight well before you shoot than try to make an issue on the line. I always ask about start positions and show what I'm going to do. Had the RM at Indiana State this year make his ruling on "hands behind back". I wanted to start with hands above my head (yet still behind my back). From a seated position, this made great sense. He said he would ding me on it and I just did it the other way and made sure that everyone got the same info. Not worth the fight for something like that. Bumping me to Open, however is worth a fight to make them prove a rule by what's published, not some email.

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Well, mr fayette flashy if you weren't always trying to stretch the rules around a tire rim you wouldn't have those problems mr jacked up holster man.

So far I like what I see. I'm just looking to see other comments.

Well, mr fayette flashy if you weren't always trying to stretch the rules around a tire rim you wouldn't have those problems mr jacked up holster man.

So far I like what I see. I'm just looking to see other comments

Eta. Never mind. Nice link randy. Very clear ruling. Any body want to argue against it?

Edited by aztecdriver
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