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650 Primer Crushing and another issue


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Today I loaded up 200 45acp rounds. Out of those, 7 primers were crushed when they were inserted into the primer hole. I have NEVER had this issue before. Its the same primers, same batch of brass etc. I dont know what could have caused this.

Also, I noticed that the primer indexing arm was not returning to its original position on its own. This caused me to load about 5 shells with out primers. talk about a mess!!

Do I need to strip everything down and clean with alcohol or what?

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I'm not being flip with this response.

Sometimes, I just can't get into harmony with one, or the other, of my presses.

Just like there is a Zen space that opens up while shooting, there is one that appears with my loading presses. Sometimes, it doesn't open up and I'm at war with every part of the process.

Try changing your physical position. Stand up if you normally sit and vice-versa.

Take a break and come back to it fresh.

I reply this way because this is what's happened to me on several occasions. It always shows up first in the priming.

However, check to be sure the two bolts that hold the priming mechanism are snug, but not too tight.

Edited by August
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Whenever I run into primer issues with my 550, 99.9% of the time it is due to dirt and crud. After just taking 10 minutes to tear down the priming system and do a good cleaning. Things run smooth as silk.

this.

then,check for any resistance felt on the upstroke.

after couple turns of the shell plate, i know i feel the primer seating in the flash hole through the lever better with each stroke till i gets in the '''zone''' where i connect with the machine's action...otherwise, maybe the primer punch isn't centered enough in the hole,or some debris are preventing the case to slip to his correct postion on the shell plate..

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All the brass is Large Primer

There is a lot of "small primer" brass for 45 ACP. Are you sure all your brass is for " large primer " ? Assuming you were using LPP.

I took the entire primer assembly apart and cleaned it with alcohol. it was not too dirty. just a little crud consisting of powder and "grease"..I figured it would be alot worse since its been 3k rounds that i have loaded since I got the 650.. Ill try again tomorrow and see how it works out..

Whenever I run into primer issues with my 550, 99.9% of the time it is due to dirt and crud. After just taking 10 minutes to tear down the priming system and do a good cleaning. Things run smooth as silk.

this.

then,check for any resistance felt on the upstroke.

after couple turns of the shell plate, i know i feel the primer seating in the flash hole through the lever better with each stroke till i gets in the '''zone''' where i connect with the machine's action...otherwise, maybe the primer punch isn't centered enough in the hole,or some debris are preventing the case to slip to his correct postion on the shell plate..

Just tear the primer assy apart and clean it. It probably has gunk and primer parts crammed under the disc.

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When that does not do it. I get a good flashlight like a Surefire and get my face right into the primer area and ram and such. Start working the action slow. Be patient. Sure enough, I will find a primer or just a small piece of primer Anvil caught on the primer punch or in the ram, under the shell plate, or empty "slide". I mean just enough to screw up the works.

The key is be patient and look slowly.

Good Luck

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Yep - looks like what your were talking about before. A couple more things. Make sure your press is still bolted down and solid. A loose press will cause the primers to jump around in the wheel and will result in what your getting. Next check the "Primer station locator tab" and make sure its holding the brass in place. If its not, you will need to bend in a bit. It should not be tight against the brass but it should not allow the brass to move away from the shell plate. See Pic

post-12930-0-76783700-1358624775_thumb.j

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She is still bolted down solid. The "Primer station locator tab" is nice and snug against the shell plate. There is no movement when the shell is in the priming station.

Yep - looks like what your were talking about before. A couple more things. Make sure your press is still bolted down and solid. A loose press will cause the primers to jump around in the wheel and will result in what your getting. Next check the "Primer station locator tab" and make sure its holding the brass in place. If its not, you will need to bend in a bit. It should not be tight against the brass but it should not allow the brass to move away from the shell plate. See Pic

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The locator tab is not supposed to be tight against the brass or shellplate. It is supposed to be about the thickness of a buisnesscard away from the brass. Also the tab should not ever need to be bent, there is an adjustment screw for it.

Brian

Edited by Too_Slow
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Fit is Ok. Cleaned end of primer magazine tube with alcohol

OK take the top off of the primer magazine and make sure the tube inside is locked in place and dropped all the way down. That can cause primers to drop sideways.

The fitting is correct. I never bent the tab as I know about the small adj screw.

The locator tab is not supposed to be tight against the brass or shellplate. It is supposed to be about the thickness of a buisnesscard away from the brass. Also the tab should not ever need to be bent, there is an adjustment screw for it.

Brian

After taking it all apart again a small spring fell out. I didnt see where it came from and now 30min later I realized it was the spring that puts tension against the tab to press it against the shell plate. Everything is back together..

Oh, and yea, primers are still being crushed!.

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Also, does it matter that I installed the "bearing kit" for the shell plate? Its been on there for quite some time, but this is the only mod I have made to the 650. Plus I dont see how this will interfer with the priming on the 650 as it doesnt affect it....

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is your set up solidly bolted on the floor??...i mean, no jiggling at all when pushing or pulling the lever????.

is your primer punch correctly lined up in the hole??

shell plate correctly tightened up, not too tight that you feel a resistance when it turns to the next station??

do you use the right shell plate??

are you sure the bench is at a perfect level ? if you put a ball on the bench does it roll off immediately??

do you use the right primers?? small pistol or large pistol primers??

all these questions should be answered ,one or many of them has a role to play in the situation of bent/on the side seated primers.

here what's looks like the primer punch the lever in seating position

2q1utfl.jpg

here,it's what the rpimer seating station looks like lever at rest.shouldn't be retracted more than the thickness of a business card or so...

6p9rg3.jpg

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Yep - looks like what your were talking about before. A couple more things. Make sure your press is still bolted down and solid. A loose press will cause the primers to jump around in the wheel and will result in what your getting. Next check the "Primer station locator tab" and make sure its holding the brass in place. If its not, you will need to bend in a bit. It should not be tight against the brass but it should not allow the brass to move away from the shell plate. See Pic

Don't do know that there is an adjustment screw for the tab? Do not bend it, adjust the screw...it takes a pretty small allen wrench...it should be adjusted every time caliber changes are made.

jj

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Bolted to the wall. No wobble at all

is your set up solidly bolted on the floor??...i mean, no jiggling at all when pushing or pulling the lever????.

YES IT IS

is your primer punch correctly lined up in the hole??

YES IT IS

shell plate correctly tightened up, not too tight that you feel a resistance when it turns to the next station??

YES I DO

do you use the right shell plate??

BENCH IS LEVEL

are you sure the bench is at a perfect level ? if you put a ball on the bench does it roll off immediately??

LARGE PRIMERS

do you use the right primers?? small pistol or large pistol primers??

all these questions should be answered ,one or many of them has a role to play in the situation of bent/on the side seated primers.

here what's looks like the primer punch the lever in seating position

2q1utfl.jpg

here,it's what the rpimer seating station looks like lever at rest.shouldn't be retracted more than the thickness of a business card or so...

6p9rg3.jpg

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Well, after a good cleaning yesterday, this is what I get today....

photobucket-34189-1358621419729.jpg

photobucket-37471-1358621419226.jpg

photobucket-23911-1358621418718.jpg

I am asking because I want to understand the photos.

It looks like the primer is proud of the bottom of the case.

and that maybe on side of the primer was 'caught' and the primer twisted.

why didn't the ram jam that primer all the way in?

I have a turret press and when that happens the primer gets...flattened.

and is all the way in place.

why is your press not crushing the primer?

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at first glance, i would be tempted to tell that the primer punch's tip surface who makes contact with the primer's bottom is maybe uneven, then presenting the primer high on the side to the flash hole , accordingly with an incorrect angle of attack.!!! .

..OR when you feel a resistance of the lever on the up stroke, back off a bit ,then '' re-enter ''' the primer slowly.

sometimes, the edge of the primer ''collide/hook''' with the edge of the flash hole,just backing off the lever to release the pressure is enough for the primer to slip correctly in.

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My first thought when I saw the primers in the case was the the shell plate was out of adjustment. Then i read that you installed the Technique Bearing kit.

I would pull that bearing kit and see if you can get things to work with a stock machine first. And THEN consider add ons.

Just my veiw from the saddle.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I could be wrong, but I'm going with what the other guys said above, I wonder if the shell plate center bolt is too loose and the plate has too much play. I'd also agree with stripping down the primer system and disassemble, clean and reassemble. Clear and use alcohol to clean the primer tube, If that doesn't work, walk away from it, and then call Dillon. Sometimes I pull out the instruction manual even though I've already read it a hundred times.

Dog

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I have this same problem with about 2 per hundred. My problem showed up only on .45 caliber. .40 and 9mm worked perfectly. My machine came with the small primer tube installed which now leads me to believe that something happened when I switched to large primers. I too use winchester but had loaded approx 8-10,000 with small primers with zero problems prior to changing. Let me know what you find out from dillon.

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