Stainless Steel Media and tumbling, idea, help, thoughts....

[21 shooter]

Has anyone done any more testing for brass weakness? I am interested in wet tumbling but weak brass is not a good thing. I also wondered if slowing the rotation of the mixer (or homemade tumbler for wet reloading) would slow the process or lessen it? The technical side of this gets deep depending on what information you are reading.

[drouinhomebuilders]

Go to sniper hide forum

There is 50 pages of info there

[Trident]

What about the chemical properties of Simple Green? I know that in diving and mixed gas blending that we do the use of SG industrial (not the green but the clear) cleaner ( can order through Grander) is used for cleaning HP tanks and brass parts.

I have been doing a cleaning with SG prior to dry tumbling.

[Bill T]

I have 300wm brass with 6 loadings all stainless tumbled with lemi shine. Mildly flatened primer loads , pockets/case heads all still tip top. All this brass weakness is bukakee. Pistol pressure is def a no worry scenario. But be your own judge " my liability waiver" (;

I agree with all of this "brass weakening" through dezincification, or whatever they tag it with. I Stainless Steel pin wet tumble in HOT WATER with Lemi-Shine, and Dawn. I've tumbled .338-378 Weatherby brass for over 12 hours on several occasions. I've never had any issues with failed cases. You can research yourself to death with a lot of this type of stuff.

Stainless Steel Media has been around long enough, that if there were such issues, they would have surfaced by now. They haven't. You can use Stainless Steel Media with confidence. Please keep us informed on the longevity of your Harbor Freight Mixer. I've been looking into that exact same model. I was concerned about long term running hours on the motor. I like my brass really clean, and Stainless Steel Media allows me to achieve it easily. I've read on Accurate Reloading where guys have tumbled a lot of expensive African big bore brass, and no one has experienced dezincification, or brass failures of any kind. Many of these are very high pressure cartridges. Big Weatherby cartridges in particular.

The only problem with Ultrasonic Cleaning is with Aluminum. It can and does cause cavitation damage if Aluminum is allowed to be exposed to Ultrasonic Cleaning for too long of a period of time. Much like what can happen to an outboard motor Aluminum propeller. I ran a test on a polished Aluminum block some time ago, and the results showed an almost sand blasted effect on polished Aluminum. I found no such problems with brass.

[MarkCO]

Stainless Steel Media has been around long enough, that if there were such issues, they would have surfaced by now. They haven't.

You are certainly free to have your opinion, but don't say something has not occurred when you do not know. Stainless wet tumbling is relatively young, and I am but one forensic engineer that has had numerous cases I have worked on with case failures due to dezincification. Are they prevalent and widespread? No, but it has occurred.

[Bill T]

I am but one forensic engineer that has had numerous cases I have worked on with case failures due to dezincification.

Cases fail for a multitude of reasons. How do you know for certain the failure was due to "dezincification", and not a long list of other reasons?

[Sarge]

All this brass weakness is bukakee.

Really??

Google "bukakee".

Edited April 12, 2013 by Sarge

[MarkCO]

I am but one forensic engineer that has had numerous cases I have worked on with case failures due to dezincification.

Cases fail for a multitude of reasons. How do you know for certain the failure was due to "dezincification", and not a long list of other reasons?

Really?

[Bill T]

I am but one forensic engineer that has had numerous cases I have worked on with case failures due to dezincification.

Cases fail for a multitude of reasons. How do you know for certain the failure was due to "dezincification", and not a long list of other reasons?

Really?

Really what? I asked you a question. If you cannot respond to it why should I value any of your comments? Stainless Steel Media is not that "new". I've been using it for over 2 years now, on literally thousands of brass cases. As I mentioned, many of these are for Weatherby Magnum calibers that operate at over 60,000+ PSI. Some have been full length resized after cleaning in Stainless Steel Media over 10 hours, and reloaded over 8 times. That amounts to over 80 hours of tumbling total. All of which took place in hot water, detergent, and Lemi-Shine. I've never experienced a single problem. Many others report the same results. And there are many others who have been using it for a lot longer than I have.

It has been used commercially to clean brass parts for years. High pressure, cast brass valve bodies, and numerous other parts have been liquid cleaned with Stainless Steel Media pins for decades. You are creating issues that don't exist. Unless you can respond with proven fact, instead of silly emoticons, I see zero reason to place any value on your comments.

[MarkCO]

Dude, yeah really! I do failure analysis for a living and have testified in court on this subject. Continue on your path of ignorance if you want, but i am not creating anything. Click on the middle link in my signature line...

[Bill T]

Dude, yeah really! I do failure analysis for a living and have testified in court on this subject. Continue on your path of ignorance if you want, but i am not creating anything. Click on the middle link in my signature line...

Dude? I rest my case.

[MarkCO]

Dude, yeah really! I do failure analysis for a living and have testified in court on this subject. Continue on your path of ignorance if you want, but i am not creating anything. Click on the middle link in my signature line...

Dude? I rest my case.

And if it were a criminal case, you would be going straight to jail. Enjoy.

[Bill T]

And if it were a criminal case, you would be going straight to jail.

And I'd be charged with what, not listening to your advice?.......Dude.

[Steve RA]

[Sarge]

Mark you are better than this. Don't stoop...... dude.

[Chills1994]

Does this "dezincification" literally mean that the zinc is stripped from the brass cases?

That should mean that a cleaned with lemi-shine and stainless pins case or cases get lighter in weight the more they are cleaned, right?

The zinc has to go somewhere, so its in the water. Re-use the same water over and over again. Take a sample of it on day 1, then day 5, 10, 15, etc. Compare levels of zinc between samples taken.

ETA: if there is anyone who would know what their brass weighs and actually kept records of it, it would be the anal retentive benchrest types on sniper's hide.

Edited April 12, 2013 by Chills1994

[Miranda]

a while back there was some discussion about citric acid for helping remove tarnish from cases.

as the water was greenish I assumed the copper was being removed as well as the zinc.

rinse and dry....

the dry tumbling to get shiny was faster than no citric acid bath.

thoughts?

[Trident]

Dude, yeah really! I do failure analysis for a living and have testified in court on this subject. Continue on your path of ignorance if you want, but i am not creating anything. Click on the middle link in my signature line...

What about the chemical properties of Simple Green? I know that in diving and mixed gas blending that we do the use of SG industrial (not the green but the clear) cleaner ( can order through Grander) is used for cleaning HP tanks and brass parts.

What do you think about using SG instead of Dawn or detergents? SG is organic, detergent free and the manufacture recommends in for carbon. Mark, your thoughts.

[Babaganoosh]

I'm going to tumble some in distilled water and pins only. See what happens.

[ummm]

In distilled rapid flowing waters, you will not get dezincificaiton in any of the samples.

Hi MarkCO

Trying to get into reloading, read a lot of your posts on ss media & wet tumbling. Since you've got the forensic materials background, I wanted to try and pin you down on this issue so I can go forward as safely as the current wisdom will allow, and I think such a contribution to this thread would be appreciated by many.

So is wet tumbling OK if I use 100% distilled water, as the above quote (perhaps taken from too much context...) implies? Is wet tumbling, to the best of your knowledge, never a good idea? Is there some way to make wet tumbling safe from dezincification?

In your opinion, would dry tumbling w/ ss media be OK, or is there too much risk?

Thanks for your many posts on this subject!

[freakshow10mm]

Really?

I thought the same exact thing when I read that.

Stainless Steel Media is not that "new". I've been using it for over 2 years now, on literally thousands of brass cases.

Yeah, so that's still a pretty new process. Two years? "Literally" thousands of brass cases? I'm a very small ammo manufacturer and I tumbled about a half million pieces of brass last year between ammo sales and brass sales.

Stainless steel media is the new fad, but what they fall for is they think the stainless pins do the work when it's really the citric acid that is the workhorse. Problem is it creates safety issues. I'll stick with corn cob and walnut. Thanks.

Unless you can respond with proven fact, instead of silly emoticons, I see zero reason to place any value on your comments.

You clearly have no idea who Mark is nor what he does for a living.

Edited April 15, 2013 by freakshow10mm

[Running Dog]

I have had 40+ years in jewelry fabrication and tumbling with S/S and ceramic media is common and has been used for decades. The chemicals you use and the metals you tumble will have different effects and the media will make a difference. I'm not sure if pins are the best shape (of course they do work) ,but there are alot of different shapes and different results. Check this site http://www.riogrande.com/home/ for some ideas, prices,etc. They are in the jewelry biz so prices are high , but you might get some useable info and find different sources.

[Cundiff5535]

Just wanted to jump in here... figured I would add some findings I have had since I started the post.

What about the chemical properties of Simple Green? I know that in diving and mixed gas blending that we do the use of SG industrial (not the green but the clear) cleaner ( can order through Grander) is used for cleaning HP tanks and brass parts.

I have been doing a cleaning with SG prior to dry tumbling.

I tried using this on a test batch of a few hundred rounds... SG did not work as well as the Dawn and LemiShine did... I also tried a bunch of other detergents. Seems to me that Dawn and water was the best as far as "cleaning" all the shit off the brass I get.

All this brass weakness is bukakee.

Really??

Google "bukakee".

^^Every time I am in Vegas and hit a 21 on the Blackjack table, I typically yell out "bukakee"... the looks I get from the Asians is always priceless....ha

a while back there was some discussion about citric acid for helping remove tarnish from cases.

as the water was greenish I assumed the copper was being removed as well as the zinc.

rinse and dry....

the dry tumbling to get shiny was faster than no citric acid bath.

thoughts?

I also used some citric acid as well as a few other forms of acid in a wash on a load a months ago... I can tell you, it did damage the brass (all forms of acid). The brass did seem be be weaker and, the coloring was off. The "yellow/gold" turned to a grey/tarnished look. In some of the brass, the yellowing did hold up but, it was not shiny and looked like it was stained a really odd color. I am not using any acid type products on my brass.

Really?

I thought the same exact thing when I read that.

Stainless Steel Media is not that "new". I've been using it for over 2 years now, on literally thousands of brass cases.

Yeah, so that's still a pretty new process. Two years? "Literally" thousands of brass cases? I'm a very small ammo manufacturer and I tumbled about a half million pieces of brass last year between ammo sales and brass sales.

Stainless steel media is the new fad, but what they fall for is they think the stainless pins do the work when it's really the citric acid that is the workhorse. Problem is it creates safety issues. I'll stick with corn cob and walnut. Thanks.

Unless you can respond with proven fact, instead of silly emoticons, I see zero reason to place any value on your comments.

You clearly have no idea who Mark is nor what he does for a living.

^^ I do not think that Dawn, Pins, and water will cause an issue? Could be wrong... never an issue to this point.

[Bill T]

I do not think that Dawn, Pins, and water will cause an issue? Could be wrong... never an issue to this point.

It won't or it would have. Neither will the addition of Lemi-Shine. I would like to see a single documented case that can be proven, that the use of this combination alone caused a rupture of a brass case. If this is so dangerous and prevalent, examples would be everywhere, not just exist in one claim, by one person on an Internet gun forum.

[Cundiff5535]

I do not think that Dawn, Pins, and water will cause an issue? Could be wrong... never an issue to this point.

It won't or it would have. Neither will the addition of Lemi-Shine. I would like to see a single documented case that can be proven, that the use of this combination alone caused a rupture of a brass case. If this is so dangerous and prevalent, examples would be everywhere, not just exist in one claim, by one person on an Internet gun forum.

You know, I would like to add one thing to this... I have talked to several range officers and retired LEO instructors about this... they seem to be in agreement with you Bill. They have told me that they have actually shot thousands of loaded rounds where the actual brass casing was cracked (over the years)... basically on the rim,down the case, or up at the neck. If this is the case, even if there is some small breakdown of the case due to Dezinctification, that alone should not cause a case to "blow up"

I maybe wrong (and the other folks I have talked to in person)..... and am not saying that the folks on here do not know what they are saying but, after talking to literally hundreds of reloaders, LEO's, and range officers who have used stainless wet tumbling for well over 5 years... they have never, ever, once had a issue. They have also stated what I laid out above.

It would seem that if this was even a small issue, that 1 of these guys would have had an issue over the 5 years.

Lets just say that I talked to 100 folks and each of them shoot 5,000 reloads per year... thats a million reloaded rounds every 2 years that they shoot collectively, and 2.5 million rounds over the last 5 years.... you would have to assume that of the 2.5 million rounds they have all shot, if this was really an issue there would have been one bang or issue right?

Edited April 15, 2013 by Cundiff5535