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I am going to be building a Cooper Tunnel to use at some of the local club matches. What is a good height to construct it in order to keep it reasonably fair? While I am currently young and limber, I recognize that a majority of the shooters in the area will have difficulty if the tunnel is too low.

I was thinking ~4 1/2 feet is a good balance between the purpose of the tunnel and the mobility of some of the shooters.

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First one I ever saw was probably 30" or so. Course that wasn't too long after you had to climb barricades and all that sort of thing.

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4.5 feet sounds pretty high. The younger guys could just bend over and run through it. I'm thinking 3.5-4 feet, or perhaps the height of a standard 55 gallon drum. Make sure you build the supports solid; one match I went to had flimsy supports and people were just giving the supports a kick to knock over the slats, then running through upright (See rule 10.2.5).

ETA: better think of a penalty to give the people who just can't do it, per 10.2.10. We have on shooter with a very bad back who refuses this sort of thing, and a guy in a wheelchair shows up sometimes too.

Edited by six-gun shooter

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I don't mind Cooper Tunnels, being, even as a senior, one of those short, scampering monkey types, but they do elicit a fair amount of grumbling from the tall and less limber.

I have to ask, is it really a shooting challenge? It's really just an obstacle between shooting positions, unless you have a shooting position inside the tunnel, in which case you might as well use a low port and give the RO better access. Cover and concealment are not a part of our game anymore.

ETA: The tunnels I've seen have been about 4 feet from ground to the level of the sticks. Higher is too easy and lower is too hard.

Edited by kevin c

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You didnt mention the game, but assuming USPSA pistol, its a shooting match, not an obstacle course, things like this are a thing of the past for a reason. I am perfectly capable, but have zero interest in crawling around on the ground. Might want to look at you market and see if they are gonna support this type of activity. You might find your self building stages to shoot alone.

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I'm not sure what the reason might be, as in the early days of USPSA it was certainly considered a shooting match, although with more obstacles than one may see today. Not sure it is any better, or worse, with the taming down of some of the obstacles. Of course, if one wants to just shoot without any movement, NRA Bullseye is certainly a valid option.

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I think it could be done within reason. This is for all obstacles and tasks. If the obstacle is a couple of seconds to negotiate through or around, it is reasonable. Setting up a tunnel or walkway that requires 10, 15, 20 seconds for the shooter to crawl or balance their way through is not reasonable if you are not also expecting them to engage targets in the process.

Set up multiple shooting areas and connect them with short tunnels and you have an interesting challenge. Make the tunnel too long or too difficult and it is no longer a fun challenge.

Rule 2.2.2 covers obstacles, and 2.2.2.2 covers holstering a hot gun. Make the tunnel so low that the shooter is basically forced to holster their gun in order to maintain their balance and you could have problems. We have shooters who range in height from 5' tall to 6'8" tall so I would not want to make a tunnel any shorter than 4'.

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You didnt mention the game, but assuming USPSA pistol, its a shooting match, not an obstacle course, things like this are a thing of the past for a reason. I am perfectly capable, but have zero interest in crawling around on the ground. Might want to look at you market and see if they are gonna support this type of activity. You might find your self building stages to shoot alone.

Jeff Cooper's original intent for IPSC was 'Combat Shooting' That was the inspiration for the sport (obstacles, weak hand only etc). Sadly IPSC in their 'wisdom' have moved away from that tenet. USPSA has not, and I am glad for it.

Edited by Got Juice?

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Still, there are a lot of novel things that were in the original that you don't see anymore. One hand reloads, jumping off a 6' wall and shooting while swinging from a rope are fairly infrequent now days.

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You didnt mention the game, but assuming USPSA pistol, its a shooting match, not an obstacle course, things like this are a thing of the past for a reason. I am perfectly capable, but have zero interest in crawling around on the ground. Might want to look at you market and see if they are gonna support this type of activity. You might find your self building stages to shoot alone.

Jeff Cooper's original intent for IPSC was 'Combat Shooting' That was the inspiration for the sport (obstacles, weak hand only etc). Sadly IPSC in their 'wisdom' have moved away from that tenet. USPSA has not, and I am glad for it.

IPSC may have gotten away from it in spirit, but from what I have seen on YouTube, IPSC tests more physical ability than USPSA. The distance between shooting positions is MUCH greater, and they use more obstacles/tunnels. It may be due to the match videos I watch being the equivalent of an area level match though. Or the rest of the world is in much better shape that Americans so they don't need to complain about testing physical disparities.

Still, there are a lot of novel things that were in the original that you don't see anymore. One hand reloads, jumping off a 6' wall and shooting while swinging from a rope are fairly infrequent now days.

I'm working on a few designs that incorporate elements for days past. They may not make it out of the local level though...

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If you're adding more than 25-30% of stage time you're not dealing with shooting challenges you're making physical challenges. If you're basically forcing people to reholster on the clock you're also being unsafe. Long runs between positions are excellent, as well as all manner of low ports and prone shooting. If I wanted to crawl around on hands and knees or jump off of walls I'd go run obstacle courses or something.

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Went through one recently, something new anyway. The "walls" were high enough to where I could just bend over and kinda walk through it, there was an activator in the middle of the tunnel if I remember right. I don't see anything wrong with creativity. If you are too old, just walk through the slats!

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Good day I'm designing a stage with a cooper tunnel and I want to put a port so a target can be engaged from within the tunnel. Can I do this for ipsc because I'm not seeing anything in the rules regarding engagement from within a tunnel.

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5 hours ago, Mills said:

Good day I'm designing a stage with a cooper tunnel and I want to put a port so a target can be engaged from within the tunnel. Can I do this for ipsc because I'm not seeing anything in the rules regarding engagement from within a tunnel.

yes you may. 

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Shot a L3 a few weeks back that had a stage just like that.

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On 6/28/2019 at 10:08 AM, Mills said:

Good day I'm designing a stage with a cooper tunnel and I want to put a port so a target can be engaged from within the tunnel. Can I do this for ipsc because I'm not seeing anything in the rules regarding engagement from within a tunnel.

 

Do it. And tell me where to go to come shoot it.

 

Kindly make that target weakhand only, too, please.

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On ‎1‎/‎9‎/‎2013 at 8:07 AM, Joe4d said:

You didnt mention the game, but assuming USPSA pistol, its a shooting match, not an obstacle course, things like this are a thing of the past for a reason. I am perfectly capable, but have zero interest in crawling around on the ground. Might want to look at you market and see if they are gonna support this type of activity. You might find your self building stages to shoot alone.

 

It's a practical shooting match.  If shooting is the only thing you wish to do, NRA conventional pistol is --------> that way

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