Anyone have problems with 9mm militry brass?

[21 guns]

Hi all,

Just wondering if anyone has experience with 9mm military brass. I am loading 9mm with military brass, mostly winchester. Using a 1050 press with dillon dies. I have the sizer and swagger set up so that the casing will fit into an EGW chamber checker.

Then the problems begin...

I have fiddled with the powder station (and the amount of belling) as well as the crimp station so that it is the lightest crimp that will drop into the chamber checker, but every 7-10 rounds will not seat fully into the EGW chamber checker. I have the OAL set such that the rounds are averaging in the 1.157-1.162 range. I have checked this on the barrel of my STI and it does not seem to be too long.

I am using 147 plated berry's bullets with N320 powder.

Is this a brass problem (I have tried commercial brass which seems to do a lot better!) or die adjustment problem?

Any help appreciated!

[RiggerJJ]

Not enough info, (like how far into the chamber do they drop before failing?) but I am guessing that you have some bulged brass (bulge down near the extractor groove) or your size die isn't set down far enough or both...maybe try a U-die as well...

Just a couple of thoughts.

jj

[dee loo]

Military brass is thicker and with the longer 147 gr it can get cause a slight bulge where the bottom edge of the bullet seats. I find that some of these rounds won't go into the chamber checker but will drop in no problem to the glock barrels I'm using. The chamber checker is made to the tightest dimensions. Much tighter than my glock barrels. I save these rounds for practice. I'm seating my bullets to 1.130 with .378 crimp. Same Berry bullets. I assume you're using a 1911 since your rounds are much longer. Do they chamber check in the STI barrel?

[21 guns]

Usually when the round fails to drop into the chamber checker, it sits proud by 1-2 mm. My size / decap die is screwed all the way to the shell plate, then backed off just a bit. Weird thing is, the rounds usually drop into the checker after the swage station, so something probably is from the primer seating station and after. Granted some of the cases dont seat as loosely in the checker after the swage station... Maybe an undersized die would do the trick??

[21 guns]

Yes, Dee Loo, I am using an STI barrel (2011). Even the rounds that don't fully chamber check in the EGW gage shoot fine from the gun, but its just annoying!!

[superdude]

Yes, Dee Loo, I am using an STI barrel (2011). Even the rounds that don't fully chamber check in the EGW gage shoot fine from the gun, but its just annoying!!

Your barrel's chamber is the only "chamber checker" that matters. Seriously. If the gun is not bothered by the ammo then you don't have a problem.

If the cause of failing to fit in the chamber checker is from a bulged case after the bullet is seated, then what you need is a Lee Factory Crimp Die to size the loaded round down to proper specs. An undersize sizing die won't help you. It will still bulge the same after you seat the bullet. You have to correct the loaded round, hence the Lee FCD.

Again, if the ammo fits in your barrel's chamber, you don't have to change anything. Ignore your chamber gauge.

[Bob DuBois]

I prefer Lee's first stage sizing die as it sizes closer to the extractor groove than some other brands along with a good design on the primer punch. I've used both the U die and standard die in my 650 at present using the standard Lee sizer and a Dillon crimp die.

The Lee four carbide die set is on sale at Midway in the Jan Flyer might give them a try. Lee's seating die has a turn knob on top for small adjustments and for a few bucks they will cut an insert to fit your bullet. Helps On OAL problems.

Lee's sizer needs to be locked from the bottom of the tool head as the threads are shorter. Dillon's lock nuts worked better so might order a few.

[Steve RA]

I agree with the above about the chamber checker, all you need is your barrel, after all, that is what you plan to shoot the ammo in !!!

[21 guns]

Thanks for the suggestions.. Maybe I'm stubborn but I have some dies on order. I will report back on how they work... It does make sense that the brass may bulge upon seating, especially if its a bit thicker. I'll see if I can resolve this issue.

[superdude]

Which dies?

[21 guns]

Which dies?

Egw undersized and lee factory crimp. Hopefully one or both will resolve the issue!

[lcs]

Hi all,

Just wondering if anyone has experience with 9mm military brass. I am loading 9mm with military brass, mostly winchester. Using a 1050 press with dillon dies. I have the sizer and swagger set up so that the casing will fit into an EGW chamber checker.

Then the problems begin...

I have fiddled with the powder station (and the amount of belling) as well as the crimp station so that it is the lightest crimp that will drop into the chamber checker, but every 7-10 rounds will not seat fully into the EGW chamber checker. I have the OAL set such that the rounds are averaging in the 1.157-1.162 range. I have checked this on the barrel of my STI and it does not seem to be too long.

I am using 147 plated berry's bullets with N320 powder.

Is this a brass problem (I have tried commercial brass which seems to do a lot better!) or die adjustment problem?

Any help appreciated!

I'm guessing here--it would seem you are developing a minor load with 147 and 320. I would shorten my OAL to 1.145-1.150. Most mags don't like the longer OAL. Berrys bullets are about .001 larger than copper jacketed. Be careful of crimping to much--you will break the jacket coating on Berrys and the bullet is AFU and will tumble.

Bell just enough to seat the bullet and crimp just enough to take the bell out. The shorter OAL should allow just about pass the mag OAL on the chamber test.

[Boxer1]

It makes since that NATO brass may have thicker walls and 9mm is traditionally a tapered case so it can look a little funny with a larger bullet wedged lower in the case with thicker walls causing them to buldge. I wonder if a 124 would do better or the 147 in different brass or seating the 147 longer? I curse the NATO brass on my LNL since it is crimped and it slows me down to remove it but it is high quality stuff no doubt. Good luck

[mike l m]

Been loading 124-125 gr fmj in a Dillion 450b for a long time. If you use the Lee Overside sizing die, the bulge at the bottom of the case should go away. Load for a G19 and Browning Hi-Power. Also use a case gauge, drop in drop out. Do not load 147s yet. Use 231 powder. They run fine and no issues with them.

Sorry do not have OAL at this time.

Mike

[DougCarden]

Usually when the 9mm won't go into the case gauge it is because of not enough crimp. Take some of the offenders and try increasing the crimp on the rounds ever so slightly, trying them in the gauge as you increase the crimp. There is a sweet spot, and you don't want to crimp more than you need to with plated bullets. If you are using military brass, it is thicker and you will need to crimp a little bit more...Play with it and see what happens. You won't need the undersized die or the LFCDie either....

Good luck,

DougC

[CocoBolo]

Wow, I can't say much for your choice of bullet, a good Jacketed bullet would probably solve your problem. Montana Gold is a good choice. There is a wide variation in thickness of brass in all 9 mm range brass. Not going into battery most times comes from TOO LONG OAL (check your variance on OAL), sometimes not enough crimp, but not often, and I have seen crooked bullet seating cause lots of issues. If you suspect a fat boy case just insert into the chamber check bassackwards if it goes in it is not a fat boy.

The U-Die is the most aggravating invention of the last century, it adds a skank load of effort to reloading slows your output speed dramaticaly and saves you one or two rejects out of the 10 you may be getting. I sold all of them that I had.

The FCD die, it works good on Jacketed Bullets, however, it will undersize a moly, bayou, or plated bullet, cause it to go wobbling down the barrel leaving a trail of lead caca behind. So for plated, moly, bayou use a taper crimp die.

I loaded some Military brass it worked about the same as other brass, the bad part was standing there at the drill press reaming all the darn primer pockets.

Chamber check, maybe tighter than the barrel, I consider that a PLUS, because if it is tighter then it is for sure going to fit in the barrel. I roll all of my brass, I have one or two failures in a 1,000 but I still check everyone of them, what I find in chamber check is suprising, like a case that splits when loaded etc.

[Sarge]

The U-Die is the most aggravating invention of the last century, it adds a skank load of effort to reloading slows your output speed dramaticaly and saves you one or two rejects out of the 10 you may be getting.

There is some truth in there as a Udie does make the press a little stiffer to operate. Other than that, I don't see the other problems. It does not slow down production at all for me. And depending on the brass it saves a lot more than a few rejects. Let's not forget that some brass (FC and Speer family) has thinner case walls than others and the Udie is what prevents set back in those cases. The Udie is indeed one of the best things to come along for reloading.

[Boxerglocker]

I agree with CocoBolo with U-die, just set your sizing die so it slightly cams over on the upstroke to ensure complete sizing. Give a slightly more generous flare and crimp just enough to remove on those plated, moly or lead bullets. Keep that FCD away from your loads, it's just a crutch for improperly set dies and will cause you accuracy problems.

Edited January 10, 2013 by Boxerglocker

[RiggerJJ]

I roll size AND use U-dies in 9mm, 40, and 45. (And MG bullets) I get NO SETBACK and no oversized ammo that doesnt make gage. I dont even gage anymore, just check primers and bag em for the range. This includes match ammo, and I shoot about 12 majors a year. IMHO the u-die does not slow down production or cause problems, it helps much more than it hinders. Its just another tool that you have to learn to use properly to get proper results.

jj

[SevoTT]

I had similar problems with mixed mil brass when first setting up my 1050. Turned out I had the swaging station mis adjusted. The swage rod was too high, and the backup/expander rod was too high. This caused the casing to be pushed up as it was being swaged resulting in a almost imperceptible bending of the case rim. Easiest way to check, is to watch the shelllplate to make sure that it is not being pushed up at the swaging station.

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[Ace38super]

Two comments from my experience. First, I found the EGW chamber check die produced lots of false alarms in .38 super. I got a Dillon chamber check die and the false alarms went away. Also, all the rounds rejected by the EGW die functioned perfectly. Second, I think CocoBolo is correct about the U Die. I almost destroyed a lot of .38 Super with that thing. It not only shoved brass down the case on too many pieces, it actually made the brass grow. I use the Lee dies for regular size die and also their FCD die and think they are great. The U die can die.