Ron Ankeny Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 Argh, I can't decide if buying a Texas Star (or whatever you call it) is a good idea or not??? When I first saw the contraption, I immediately took a disliking to the thing just from watching other shooters struggle with it. I figured the prop would never catch on and it would go away. I think the Star is entertaining, but I never thought it would catch on or be used in a Level 2 or higher match. They are inconsistent, don't always have the same initial presentation (i.e. moving before activated in the wind) and they are downright punitive to the less experienced shooter. I thought I was about the only one that felt that way about the prop, until I read Vince Pinto's little rant about the five plates spinning in a circle. A couple of days ago I was at the Mile High Showdown in Denver when one of my friends just happened to remark to a rather well respected GM shooter that there was a conspicous absense of the Texas Star at the match. The GM shooter twisted off and by the time he got off of his soap box he had built a very compelling argument for outlawing the prop in any sanctioned match. My intent is not to start some big flame war or virtual pissing contest over the star. I would simply like to know your personal views on the prop, tell me how popular they are in your area, and do you think they are here to stay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 I live in Texas. I hate them. Any big match around here usually has one (Area 4 had one, or two at the '04 TX Lim this year). I wish they would go away for all the reasons you stated in the above post.... But it seems that are here to stay (at least in Area 4), so I'm trying to get our local club to buy/build one so I can practice it at least. The annoying part is that the guys who design Stages for larger matches around here (who have them at their local clubs, and shoot them in practice, and almost every club match) have a HUGE advantage in a big match on any stage that has a Star.... and for that reason, they include them pretty frequently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 I can't seem to get them to balance consistently. If the plates don't start in the same location for every shooter, the rotation will be different for every shooter. Even a well-balanced TX* will shift in the wind and on its base. One way to fix this is to put a dropping weight on it and prop it up with a stick that is pulled away by a popper or something. Then the TX* rotates before the shooter even has a chance at shooting it static, and its degree of difficult increases exponentially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 They have no place in a major match. I have no problem with them in local matches as they are pretty decent practice. After all, if you can shoot a moving steel plate, you can shoot a stationary one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul B Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 I'v had some fun shooting these contraptions because a few local clubs have bought them. Once bought they seem to show up in matches a lot because someone wants to justify the purchase. They do test shooting skills and I will fully admit I've never cleaned one in 5 shots.(6 is my best) It must take exceptional skill and/or a good deal of luck to do it. That said, I don't think they really have a place in major matches. If we apply the creed of consistent challenges to all shooters, the texas star does not measure up. I've seen arbitrations because a mover was moving at a significantly different speed for different squads and shooters. How can you compare the times from shooter to shooter in such a case. The same thing goes for those target arrays that appear at "random" each shooter is actually shooting a diferent course of fire. A texas star is ok for practice, but probably not in a match. It could work very well if motor driven at a constant speed for each shooter. In fact that would be a blast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 I think they should never be used in a major match. You should not see them more than twice a year at club level matches. It's a gimmick. Clever, but not what we do. A huge disadvantage for those who don't have one to practice on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 Hey Ron.. We have two at one of the clubs in the ECO..I have never shot at one in practice..only in matches, club and state level.. I don't find them particularly hard..they seem to be a pysche more than anything..I think fast moving bobbers are more intimidating than the star... I think they are a gimmick and they should be pass..soon..we haven't really shot one here in a few months... I think they are fine...as long as you can get the same consistent start..which is the challenge.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhgtyre Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 The club I shoot at has four TX stars (I am pretty sure that is the right number) and they show up quite a bit in our weekly steel matches. Lately they have been putting hard cover in front of parts of the star to make it more of a challenge/pain in the ass. Last week they had it behind a plate rack which was partially obscured by barrels and a barricade. Without hardcover, if the star is stationary when the shooter engages it, I have seen shooters clean it many times. I've even done well on it in those circumstances and I'm just a lowly C class shooter. I don't see the problem with using this prop in a big match but I get to shoot one pretty often so I am certainly biased. You know that now that I said they aren't so bad the next star I encounter will kick my ass! -ld Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
froglegs Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 Whether it should be used in a major match or not I couldn't tell you I haven't been used in one either. I love the star and dont care if its moving or not it adds random flavor to shooting and a challenge. I'm relatively new shooter and shooting this thing from still or moving or port, prone or whatever hasn't bothered me yet. One vote for! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDH Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 I won't comment about whether they should be used or not. I will say that there was one at Area 3 and you either loved it or hated it. Hard cover over the top plates, leaving only two plates exposed. Here was the setup to make sure that things were consistent (I did not run the stage, but this is what I heard)...... 1) weight one of the arms.... 2) number the plates and arms, which allows you to put the plates on the same arms each time... It seems to me that doing these things would make it pretty consistent for each shooter.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 YES - and you should tell every member and guest that (insert your least liked member's name) is responsible for the club buying it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 BDH, It may have been consistant for each shooter, but the first shooter in a squad has a significant disadvantage in that situation becuase they don't know what to expect. The problem is it is nothing like other activated targets such as drop turners and swingers. Those are previewed in the walk through. Every texas star I have shot moves at a different speed than the one I shot before. Anyway you look at it, it can't possibly be consistant for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDH Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 Jake, Overall, I'll give you the point! However, if you take a complex stage with only static targets, the first shooter is at a slight disadvantage there as well right? Let's face it, if you are down in the squad you might see some faster way of doing things based on those before you. I heard it several times this weekend with people saying... 'crap, I wish I would have seen that BEFORE I shot the stage' (and as you know, I had wide open targets).... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 I agree with you on that. When compared to static targets, it gets to that point though the shooter's ability to figure out the best way to shoot the stage isn't hindered by uncertainty in the prop. I do know where you are coming from though. Looking back on it, even though I won the stage, I probably would have shot it differently than I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 I'm all for using a TX* --- and we don't own one at our club. I do agree that it should be used only as an activated target that is consistently set like any other mover. As far as some of them spinning faster or slower than ones used in other matches, I see fast swingers and slow swingers on the circuit..... Certainly the first shooter needs to get a chance to see it activated from where he's going to shoot it from.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackdragon Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 I think every club should have one, Having said that, don't over use it! Ivan SCS Vegas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 Buy the *, give it to me, and I'll shoot the crap out of it. Then I'll tell you whether you should take it back to your club or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackdragon Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 Thats what everone says until they have shot at every match this year Ivan SCS Vegas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasag93 Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 If a shooter botches a star then they hate it. If they clean it with 5 rounds they love it. I haven't ever really had a problem with it. I like it, it is challenging. As for the same presentation every time, it is unlikely. That depends on which plate is shot first. As for speed of rotation, I have seen slow clam shells and some really fast ones. I love the star. I think it should be used in the biggest matches. But I am just a lowly C shooter so my opinion doesn't mean s*#t! TXAG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Bill Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 I think I am with the crowd of: Nice toy, but not for Area+ matches. In my opinion, to be become proficent with the star, you must shoot it with some frequency at local matches. For people from the smaller clubs without a star, they get hammered by the star, and generally pissed. The star at A3 was the hardest I had ever seen. I was the second shooter in the squad, still had no idea how to shoot it, or how it would move, when I got LAMR. This is not the same as a complicated field course IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dunn Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 I love 'em. As long as they are set close to the same for everyone, I think the varied presentation complaint is largely whining, especially if the whole thing is visible. I think you should stack about three no shoots shoulder to shoulder behind the star to really mess with people. I think that outright evilness in stage design is underutilized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted September 7, 2004 Author Share Posted September 7, 2004 I think that outright evilness in stage design is underutilized. You are one sick puppy. Pipe down or the film of the Pueblo reload goes on-line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 Bring them on. I think they are more consistent than many of the other props we see at matches. I don't buy into the arguement that "we don't have one so it's not fair". Threre are lots of props that the local clubs don't all have (bobbers and bridges and bear-traps...oh my). If we banned everything, we would have some pretty boring matches. And, talking about "local advantage"...I think memory stages offer more of a local advantage than a star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 I'm OK with the star, but there's a discontinuity in scores shooting at them-- people that are good and practiced on them clean them quickly and go on. Others that aren't as familliar or aren't shooting quite as well get very frustrated with them-- there's no in-between. Worse then is the people that have them and are used to them want to make it more 'challenging' and so start sticking hardcover and no-shoots and starters and what-all on them. Of course all that does is move the discontinuity further up the scores and frustrate the less experienced shooters even more. Anybody that's practiced whatever wierdness is included will still have few problems. They have a place and I don't think the not-the-same-for-everybody is a big deal, but they've gotta be used in moderation. They are very like clamshells in this-- slow shooters get hosed by fast clamshells far worse than fast shooters do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 I think that outright evilness in stage design is underutilized. You've been talking to Keith and especially Phil too much! But you probably would have liked a small stage I built a few months ago that involved six paper targets surrounded by 15 penalty targets...... And surprisingly, there were no scoring issues..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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