JD45 Posted September 4, 2004 Share Posted September 4, 2004 My question is not about shooting skill, hitting targets, or winning matches. What I want to know is only pertaining to making your trigger finger go fast as possible. Are you sort of born with this? I just wonder what are the fastest splits obtainable by pointing at the berm and ripping off a mag. If I have been shooting for a while and never break .15, will I get much faster? This is only for fun because I do believe that .20 splits will win anything that I need to win. I can't seem to accept the fact that some guys can shoot a .11 spilt with a 1911 and I'm just hoping to hit a .14. Can you train for this or is it all in the genes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twix Posted September 4, 2004 Share Posted September 4, 2004 Great question I feel. Tagged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted September 4, 2004 Share Posted September 4, 2004 It's hard to go fast if you are tense...especially if you are trying to go fast. My fastest splits just happen...mostly when I am putting my attention into something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted September 4, 2004 Share Posted September 4, 2004 Being fast on the trigger takes virtually the same skill as being fast on the buzzer: being relaxed and being open to sensory input. Be in your happy place and be observant and things will come together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted September 4, 2004 Share Posted September 4, 2004 Splits can be learned or they can be genetic. There's a guy I know that barely shoots at all that can crack off .10's with regularity. On the other hand, long ago I could never break .16.. In the intervening time I haven't practiced splits at all, but the've gotten better all on their own. This year at Area 4, I shot 2A's with an .11 split on one target. Nothing special, just a strong intent to shoot that target right there, twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted September 4, 2004 Share Posted September 4, 2004 I can pull the trigger pretty fast (I've done a legitimate 0.08 sec that was not an echo and the gun was not rocking in my hand). But I can't even come close to actually seeing my sights when I do that. So are we talking about "real" splits where you're actually using your sights on both shots, or just how fast you can make your finger twitch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD45 Posted September 5, 2004 Author Share Posted September 5, 2004 Rhino, I only want to know how fast you can move your trigger finger. I'm just wondering if there is a way to train a finger to move faster or is it mostly a gift from birth. If you did a .08 you certainly have some rare finger speed. Does anyone know the cycle rate of a 1911? I think I read around .07 on this forum once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 The day I did it, I was shooting a stock Kimber .38 super. The splits on that magazine were the 0.08, a 0.11, two 0.12, and the rest were 0.13 sec. I wrote 'em down because I didn't believe it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 When I first started shooting I couldn't break .20 on splits. After a ton of rounds and a lot of experience I can usually get down to .11. It may be partially genetic, but not enough to where someone that doesn't have that gene has a disadvantage. It can always be learned. That's the main reason I love shooting. Your skill and how you perform depends soley on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterLefty Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 Does anyone know the cycle rate of a 1911? I think I read around .07 on this forum once. The cycle rate on a 1911 (in 45ACP) is .05sec at full auto. This is from some testing that Jimmy Mitchell did many years ago. Kenny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul B Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 I've always heard that many timers start to lose shots below .11 or .12. Something to do with the microphone. Many fast full autos like a MAC 10 or a 1911 in full auto will often not register every shot or do other squirelly things because of the sound waves and/or other circuitry delays. I have to wonder how accurate some of the really fast splits are and if they would be different on different timers. I can regularly do .12 or .13 splits just using a stop watch that you can hold like a trigger, but rarely get better than .14-.15 with a timer. Not even sure it makes a big difference. I really believe it's the transition time between targets that is the secret. If I have a 20 round stage and shoot 10 double taps at .15 instead of .12 that means I've lost .3 sec. If I have 10 transitions at .50 versus .20 then I've lost 3 seconds. If my math is correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 Not even sure it makes a big difference. I really believe it's the transition time between targets that is the secret. If I have a 20 round stage and shoot 10 double taps at .15 instead of .12 that means I've lost .3 sec. If I have 10 transitions at .50 versus .20 then I've lost 3 seconds. If my math is correct. Hard to argue with that math. I think that there is no doubt that some folks are blessed with superior reflexes. I think, though, that talent needs to be developed, and that working at it hard matters more than what DNA you have in your genes. The game is, as has been pointed out, much more than fast splits. TGO has been top level for so many years that it's nearly beyond comprehension, and that speaks not only to his considerable natural talent, but to his depth of knowlege, commitment, and drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 I have average reaction time, my reflexes aren't the best, and I am far from being athletic in nature. However, I am a regular freaking split monster. I didn't try to develop fast splits, they were a by-product of the cure for trigger freeze. I suffered with trigger freeze for over a year. The elimination of tension, maintaining a neutral grip, and isolating the action of the trigger finger are the ingredients of fast splits. While monster splits aren't required to win an IPSC match, they are kind of cool and when combined with visual elements they can help in figuring out timing issues, show the elements of follow through and fire control, and it's really spiffy to be able to call the individual shots on a 1.75 Bill Drill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Moore Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 jd45, your finger is a muscle like any other muscle it must be trained. i would suggest taking a clicker pen and place it in your strong hand and click away. make a game out of it, see how many times you can click the pen in 60 seconds. do reps or even click it as fast as you can until you can't click it anymore. if your married or have a girl friend it can tell you another way to practice but i'll have to pm that one to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 Good grief, it's fast finger in the genes not jeans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackdragon Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 Relax,Relax,Relax,Relax,Think about baseball Ivan SCS Vegas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 This week's episode of "Shooting Gallery" with Todd Jarrett was very informative. He advocates allowing your finger to move forward after every shot so that your finger actually leaves contact with the trigger. That ensures that the trigger resets properly (no trigger freeze!), but he also feels it's the key to fast splits. So no more riding the trigger ... slap it, baby, SLAP IT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 TGO slaps the trigger too, doesn't he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalmas Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 interesting and something I've given some concern but has "given" up on since regardless of how I do it i cant produce a slip lower that .17. I don't think it's possible for me right now to do better. There is something wrong with my arm, the muscles tighten and cramp. Just typing on the keyboard now thightenst the arm.. sucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdj Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 I was playing around with this yesterday. I can get splits to .15 reasonably consistantly but I can't seem to get below that. If I actually want to hit anything reliably with the second shot, I need to be in the .18 to .20 range. I guess having a faster finger isn't my limiting factor at the moment ... I need a faster brain Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted September 9, 2004 Share Posted September 9, 2004 Bah! I've given up on fast splits. Found it easier to run and do all those non-shooting stuff faster than trying to will my finger to move at warp speed while at the same time actually hitting where I want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFoley Posted September 9, 2004 Share Posted September 9, 2004 I never could get splits below .15 until recently. Now I can get .12,.12,.12,.13,.13,.14 in succession firing doubletaps on 3 targets across and back at 7 yards. Funny thing is that I can do it stone cold. All of a sudden, and with my own gun only. Yesterday I got nothing better than .14 or .15, but I was using someone elses gun with a slightly different feel in the trigger. I have a horrible transition to make up for it though. Always in the .30s and sometimes in the .40s. Let's fathom this, is it any different to get a .12 split and a .32 transition than a .17 split and a .27 transition? it still took .44 to get from the first shot on target A to the first shot on target B. Some guys shoot the transition very close to the split. Different talents achieving the same results. I wonder what Anderson, or some of the other hardcore "drill" disciples get on splits and transitions? I guess I am going to have to buy that book and quit reading it over other peoples shoulders. Is it available on CD rom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted September 9, 2004 Share Posted September 9, 2004 Let's fathom this, is it any different to get a .12 split and a .32 transition than a .17 split and a .27 transition? it still took .44 to get from the first shot on target A to the first shot on target B. Some guys shoot the transition very close to the split. Different talents achieving the same results. Big difference for me. At "slower" splits, I can almost guarantee I get good hits. One thing I've noticed is that the more I push for fast splits, the more it takes me to transition to the next target. Kinda weird...must be all that tension from trying to go to fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted September 9, 2004 Share Posted September 9, 2004 Ultra fast splits aren't required to win, and they can even be detrimental. But the ability to develop fast splits will pay off with a neutral grip and lack of tension. It is also cool to experiment with visual inputs at warp drive. I don't think "making" fast splits happen is the answer. I think you need to "let" them happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted September 9, 2004 Share Posted September 9, 2004 I wonder what Anderson, or some of the other hardcore "drill" disciples get on splits and transitions? I guess I am going to have to buy that book and quit reading it over other peoples shoulders. Is it available on CD rom? I ran Steve on the classifier Times Two last weekend (and posted about it in the classifier section). ALL of Steve's splits and transitions were between 0.18 - 0.20 seconds. I think he did go six Alpha and six Charlie, but the Charlies weren't ugly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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