MikeFoley Posted September 6, 2004 Author Share Posted September 6, 2004 Hold the boat, the saga continues and seems to get more wierd by th malfunction. but we may be on to something. I just took the gun I borrowed and shot A5 with yesterday down to the club. I cleaned it and put 6 rounds in a mag and started to shoot 3 sets of doubles. After the first shot, the hammer stopped at the half notch. This gun is a stock Edge that has been hardchromed and grip textured, that's all, no trigger work. The serial number begins with CM58xx and mine is CM69xx. I fear that this is a sear pin hole in the frame that is out of spec based mainly on the fact that a local gunsmith just put an oversized sear pin in another STI (an open gun this time) without reaming the hole, but only on one side. He discovered this after seeing a sear wear uneven twice in this gun. Tewlman's Edge, BDogs Edge, SmittyFL's Edge, and my Edge are all having this malfunction. The local gunsmith is checking the pin holes in my gun and will let you know what he finds. The only common denominator I see is that all of the guns are STI frames, and all have been hardchromed. BTW, the chroming was done by at least three different shops, Tripp, Metaloy, and Checkmate. They all have different parts, different gunsmiths, and different fired round counts. Three different shooters are making this happen, SmittyFL a GM in FL, Fomeister an A in KY, and Tewlman a B in KY. I am going to order 4 sets of oversized pins tomorrow and get them shipped NDA so that we can address this before Nationals, gulp. Thanks to all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFoley Posted September 6, 2004 Author Share Posted September 6, 2004 It's official, two out of five guns with obvious left-side sear pin hole grossly oversized. Mine is worse than the open gun with 30K rounds fired. Two more will be checked this week. I hope this is the actual problem, pins are cheap. FYI, the pins fit tight in the sear, and tight in the right side of the frame, but will wiggle in the left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidwiz Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 foemeister - what you report re the pin holes in that particular brand (and at least one other) is not uncommon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFoley Posted September 6, 2004 Author Share Posted September 6, 2004 Davidwiz, thanks for your reply, I am glad to hear that I am not pioneering on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackdragon Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 When you set up a trigger pull that light, you still need to keep an eye on it, Kinda like an oil change. The sear spring will for lack of a better word, relax. That is what your practice is for. If your gun starts doubling check the tension on your sear spring. Ivan SCS Vegas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFoley Posted September 6, 2004 Author Share Posted September 6, 2004 Blackdragon, it is hell livinig on the edge. I now understand why backup guns and prefitted extra parts are so important. I always try to clean and shoot just before a big match, and todays discovery came from just that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackdragon Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 Fomeister, I have only one open gun, I make sure it works all the time. I believe if you have several, they are always in some state of " in progress" Ivan SCS Vegas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFoley Posted September 10, 2004 Author Share Posted September 10, 2004 Got the oversized pin installed and ripped off a mag tonight without the malfunction. Taking a list of serial numbers with me next week in case the manufacturer wants to know. 5 guns with the same problem, 3 with close serial numbers. Glad to be back in operation. Keeping my fingers crossed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFoley Posted September 14, 2004 Author Share Posted September 14, 2004 Hammer dropped to half notch today and cost me two drop turners. Special thanks to Bob Londrigan at Brazos for working on my gun at his table in the vendor tent. Test fired 50 rounds and hoping to report that the new hammer, sear, strut, mainspring, and leaf spring will do the job. I really appreciated the special service during a busy time. By the way, I got two .10s, an.11, and a .12 split after the drop-in trigger job. This thing feels great already. Will follow-up after the next 2-300 rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFoley Posted September 16, 2004 Author Share Posted September 16, 2004 85 more today, thats 145 with no malfunctions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFoley Posted September 21, 2004 Author Share Posted September 21, 2004 New theory second hand supposedly from Dawson that some of the guns that are doing this may be from the spring rubbing on the grip frame and causing it not to reset. This may support what Leatham and others call slapping the trigger instead of riding it, although I don't consciously do either. I have 400 rounds without a malf so far, but I am still a student of this problem and will continue to post until malfunctions die. I fear that this thread may have lost some steam, but I have continued to hear of others with this problem, even some big names from the Nats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFoley Posted October 2, 2004 Author Share Posted October 2, 2004 Well it happened again. Yes right in the middle of a field course at some really close targets, the old half-notch stopage. After 700 rounds without a malf, I am perplexed as much as ever. I suppose I will check to see if the spring is rubbing the grip. I already checked the screws and they are tight. I may have to learn to slap the trigger differently as a potential solution. I fear that I may be riding the trigger a bit, and maybe coming all the way off of it like TJ, RL, and others do will keep me from doing this. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyFL Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 Damn, sorry to hear that. I haven't installed Bob's kit I bought yet. I was hoping to hear it fixed your problem. I'll let you know when I put mine in, but I'm playing with the open gun for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFoley Posted October 3, 2004 Author Share Posted October 3, 2004 Damn, sorry to hear that. I haven't installed Bob's kit I bought yet. I was hoping to hear it fixed your problem. I'll let you know when I put mine in, but I'm playing with the open gun for a while. I too have been shooting other guns some since nats, but really would really like to trust this one as Limited will be my primary focus next year when the tournaments begin. I really hate to abolish my trigger technique as it yields fast splits and has brought me this far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFoley Posted October 3, 2004 Author Share Posted October 3, 2004 Made it through today's match malfunction free. After the match, demonstrated the malfunction within 6 rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmios Posted October 6, 2004 Share Posted October 6, 2004 Fomeister I hate to say it but I would seriously start saving up my pennies and selling what I did not need so as to get a new custom gun that the builder will stand behind to the point of building you new for no cost. I still like Wilson’s; they make it right or build you a completely new gun. Best of luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konkapot Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 Foemeister if you pm me I have a possible explanation for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFoley Posted October 11, 2004 Author Share Posted October 11, 2004 My revovler didn't double today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonub Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 My revovler didn't double today. mine did seriously sell that sucker and buy a new one from brazos or benny hill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFoley Posted October 11, 2004 Author Share Posted October 11, 2004 It is not a gunsmith/gunbuilder issue. One of the makers you mention, has a customer with the problem. I have seen another gun supposedly built by one of them that does this, and I fired both of them with the malfunction. A third custom builders gun does this too, and I have heard of a fourth. It appears that it has something to do with the way I grip the gun during rapid fire that askews the alignment of the parts. A few people have switched to steel frame guns over this issue, but since I like mine in every aspect except this one, I will try to change the death grip I have on it during close engagement. I may try an unaltered grip, but that has only short term affect. There are just too many guns out there doing this in the right hands, including high dollar custom guns from the best builders. If I am flexing the plastic grip, then there is no real fix on a modular gun, barring a metal grip frame being produced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry White Posted October 11, 2004 Share Posted October 11, 2004 The sear, hammer and disconnector of the modular guns all ride in the pretty beefy steel part of the frame assy. I dont think you can flex this part with your grip, not you or superman( sad deal about Christopher Reeves today). Send that pistol to a GOOD smith. I can't help but think that if you had sent it to Benny when you said you were going to it would be fixed by now, or at least you would lnow what the problem really was. Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFoley Posted October 16, 2004 Author Share Posted October 16, 2004 You can flex these grips hard enough to make them hold mags in. You could also flex them enough to make the sear spring tension vary occasionally, allowing a light trigger to experience bounce, but this is very intermittent. I trust the smith you mention, but unless he has my grip and finger and 700 rounds of ammo, I don't think he will be able to replicate the issue or diagnose it. I have heard of people with this problem with some of the best smiths custom guns. I do not want to mention the names because I have no way of knowing who has been inside these guns, but they are the best ones often referred on this forum. Top shooters have experienced this same problem, TT, PS, & SS, to name three from the shootoffs. I have not been able to produce this in guns with short triggers yet, and may consider that an option if I can't loosen my grip a little first. I appreciate everyones faith in their gunsmith, but there are guns by most of them out there that people from all over the country have discussed with me. Still open to suggestions from anyone who knows about this first hand, whether a gunsmith or competitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry White Posted October 16, 2004 Share Posted October 16, 2004 Well if it ain't the arrow, it must be time to adjust the indian. Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFoley Posted October 16, 2004 Author Share Posted October 16, 2004 Larry, I actually hope it is the Indian. Chief grip too hard, finger too quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFoley Posted October 27, 2004 Author Share Posted October 27, 2004 Four more matches and some practice without the malfunction...until last night. I was practicing: 1-1-1 freestyle, reload, 1-1-1 weakhand from 7 yards with no problems. I then moved up to 5 yards and started 2-2-2 and billdrills. During both 2-2-2 and billdrills, the malfunction happened 3-4 times. I shot a buddies gun with a short trigger and got a .10 split but couldn't make it malfunction. I may have to try that, but really hate the way it feels. I just don't want to give up on a modular gun. It has to be something I am doing with my trigger. I have done it with too many other guns(all of them modular frames with long triggers), so I really think I need to work on a new trigger technique or something. I must not shoot as fast in matches where it doesn't happen. It is always on really close targets! Any other suggestions(besides your favorite gunsmith)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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