Kingman Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 The one thing I do that I consider to be poor shooting sometime is that I barely grip the gun. I grip it hard enough to have good control but no harder. I find when I grip it harder I do stupid things. Though I do not have a thinned grip my gun runs as fast as you can pull it. When it works other problems mostly my stupidity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFoley Posted November 14, 2004 Author Share Posted November 14, 2004 I shot the short trigger today 100 rounds in a match, and 100 rounds trying to force malfunction. I had three .13 splits with a .26 and .30 transition on a three target array. After the match, I got two or three .10 splits, and two or three .12 splits. I did a bill drill with all .14 and .15 splits. I certainly won't proclaim it fixed, but it is looking very promising again. The only changes are short trigger and higher disconnector, and I am probably coming all the way off the trigger due to muscle memory as well. Will continue to report results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 OK, In the interest of science, I replicated the problem with my Limited gun today. I racked the slide, pulled the trigger, then cycled the slide with the trigger pinned back. I slowly let the slide forward, then started slapping the trigger about a half inch out of battery. Sure enough, at about 1/8" to 3/16" out of battery, the hammer dropped to half cock. I am now a believer that it is entirely possible to call your shots and have following. I also believe that abandoning the heavy slide for a lightened, stirrup-cut slide will speed up the cycling to make it far less likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyFL Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 Very interesting, thanks Eric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFoley Posted November 21, 2004 Author Share Posted November 21, 2004 Shot 100 rounds in a match todaywith no malfunctions. After the match, fired 19 rounds of fast doubles, the hammer ended at half notch on an empty chamber. Not sure, but it seems a lot harder to reproduce now, and I will continue to shoot it for a couple of months before moving to the next change, possibly new plastic. I appreciate Eric's experiment and acknowledement of the possibility of doing this with a good sight picture. It can happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFoley Posted November 24, 2004 Author Share Posted November 24, 2004 I wonder if changing the timing of the gun, or changing my timing would be the best route. Maybe both. I think a different recoil system, or lightened slide(my preference) would do it. I can change my timing and force the right thing most of the time, but how do you get your eyes to tell your brain to tell your trigger to slow down a few hundreths of a second part of the time? This should be interesting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 I wonder if changing the timing of the gun, or changing my timing would be the best route. Maybe both. I think a different recoil system, or lightened slide(my preference) would do it. I can change my timing and force the right thing most of the time, but how do you get your eyes to tell your brain to tell your trigger to slow down a few hundreths of a second part of the time? This should be interesting... Easy. In thoery. Make vision you shooting priority, not speed. (Harder in reality.) Oh...now don't go feeding me that line about how your splits "got you where you are today". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFoley Posted November 24, 2004 Author Share Posted November 24, 2004 FLex, I am living to regret that one, and now that I've grown up a bit, I know splits don't mean jack at the end of a match. There I said it. This problem, frustrating as it has been, has helped me discover a few things about myself and my shooting. As for vision, I really have seen a perfect second sight picture and done this, but not since the last parts change, still testing. I would like to say I will take less chances going forward, but that fades with adrenaline. I got 92% of the points available in each stage at the match Sunday I was only down one point on two stages. This is not uncommon for me. My speed outside of splits is improving too, but most of the time when I win a stage, it is because of accuracy. Even when my time is the fastest, it is because I took less sloppy shots than the others. I forget who told me this, but smooth is fast, and I try to tell myself that a lot when I go to the line. Priority One: Vision. Is that also what is referred to as visual patience, or is that something else altogether? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 Priority One: Vision.Is that also what is referred to as visual patience, or is that something else altogether? I started another thread, so that we don't lose that convesation in this (9 page) thread. http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...ST&f=17&t=18476 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFoley Posted December 4, 2004 Author Share Posted December 4, 2004 Hammer at half notch three times on one stage today! The stage required shooting three full targets within 5 yards and shoulder to shoulder, then two steel, mandatory reload, then paper again and two more steel. I shot the first two steel, then started the paper calling each shot with the sights in the A zone when on the middle target, the hammer was at half notch between the shots, I recovered and shot the other three shots, reloaded, shot the other steel then the paper, hammer at half notch twice in a row this time. I only lost three seconds to the others and still got all of the points having to rack the slide three times. I have never been more frustrated than today. I am going to try a lightened slide or different recoil system next to try to change the timing of the gun. I still have another match to go this weekend, tomorrow, and will probably have to shoot this gun. I am really seeing what I need to see and pulling the trigger when it is right, but the cycle time and reset are off somehow with my timing. I really tried to slow down, but when you have a perfect sight picture on each shot and pull the trigger accordingly, the gun should keep up. Thinking of breaking my finger and reseting it! Still working on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFoley Posted December 5, 2004 Author Share Posted December 5, 2004 Happened once today where I thought the distance was great, and my shots were slow. Someone said you can release the trigger too fast, is it possible? I am going to try a different recoil system next weekend, and shoot a friend's new Spitfire while he is gone for 6 weeks beginning Dec. 15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Larry Cazes Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 Fo, been following this but not not quite sure so I'll ask.....Have you tried a standard unmodified grip yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFoley Posted December 6, 2004 Author Share Posted December 6, 2004 Not yet, but it is one of the three things I have left to try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFoley Posted December 7, 2004 Author Share Posted December 7, 2004 I hope the gunsmiths are still folowing this, because I want their take on something. Today my father-in-law and I discussed this issue for the first time. He is an old school gunsmith in the respect that all of his work has been repair work, and he has never even seen the inside of my gun. He does know the workings of a 1911 pistol very well. He always puts things into a really simple perspective. He took my gun and began to simulate and say to himself everything that happens from pulling the trigger until the next pull of the trigger. When I showed him that this gun, and two others in my house will fire 1/8 inch out of battery, he said that all guns would probably do it, but the timing (gun and shooter) wasn't commonly aligned to let it happen. He then looked at the disconnector and the trigger reset, stating that my gun had a really short reset compared to the others I had on hand. It was only after discussing the role of the disconnector with him, that I looked into the groove at the rear of the slide, and noticed a lot of high polished wear in the front of it. Could this be proof of me moving it with the trigger before it is reset into the recess? Our next conversation began with me asking about changing the timing of the gun, and educating him on "Recoilmaster 101" since he had never seen one. He said that the recoilmaster was a good thing for most shooters as he saw it, but it could slow down the guns cycle time. Couple that with my fast reset and 2nd pull, and you have "tolerance stacking". I wouldn't mind more recoil if the trade-off is 100% reliability. I can learn the new timing and corresponding sight lift. In short, I may give up the Recoilmaster for a spring and rod. I will try this as opposed to lightening my slide since the hardchrome would have to be redone, and it may make the gun less marketable should I decide to sell it. Does anyone know what kind of reverse plug and guide rod I will need for a factory STI Edge with a bull barrel? What pound springs (range) should I start with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyFL Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 When I broke my recoil master I used an 11# spring and it felt pretty much the same while shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 Or go heavier on the 14# range. The increased flip should re-time yourself to slow down just a tad bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFoley Posted December 8, 2004 Author Share Posted December 8, 2004 SmittyFL did your gun have this issue while using a spring and guiderod? Thanks MColiver, that is sound advice. I may have to order a kit with all of them, but wanted to know where to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyFL Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 I don't think so. But my initial following problems were due to a bad trigger job and I had the original recoil master which I guess had some kind of flaw that caused the metal to become to hard. Anyway I only ran the regular guide rod for a couple of matches until I got a new recoil master. But that would change the timing. I probably will be going back to limited soon so I've got a new grip and going back to a guide rod and spring to try. Also I might give the short trigger a try also. Did you like the feel of the short trigger aside from the following issue? Obviously I'll make these changes seperately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFoley Posted December 8, 2004 Author Share Posted December 8, 2004 I hated it until I shot it. After one match, it became natural, after two it was so natural that I was following again. I will probably leave it in for now, and if the gun and I can get our timing together, I may never go inside it again. Vikings501 has a light RM that he said I should try. I may do that, as I have nothing to lose. I put the top end from my Trojan on my Edge, and it fits great and functions. Do you see any reason I shouldn't shoot it like that until I can get my problem solved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyFL Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 No, running the trojan top end shouldn't hurt anything if it works. It will be interesting to see if that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFoley Posted December 13, 2004 Author Share Posted December 13, 2004 I did a different test today than anticipated. I put a light Recoilmaster in my gun yesterday(borrowed from Vikings501-thanks) and ran two mags through it. Today in the match, I shot over 100 rounds. The gun felt slower, but the hits were really easy because the front sight moved much slower than my eyes. I actually felt like I was waiting to pull the trigger. Although this may be just what I need, I would still prefer a gun that lets me shoot as fast as I can see the sights. Splits ranged from .15-.22 in the match, and transitions were still around .30(I have got to work on that). After the match, I ran another mag through it trying for a malfunction, but the fastest split I got was .13(no .10s). Vikings501 ran a bill drill with it, and got a .12. The point is that the gun is not that much slower, but it really feels that way. It is real sluggish loading at the line. It is not battering the gun, but it felt like a lot of recoil before I got into the actual match stages. I think a light slide with this system may be even better. I am still thinking about a steel rod and #14 pound spring. I tried real hard to force the malf in the past two days before and after the match, but no luck. I guess the cycle time being different has caused me, or the gun, to react differently, and interrupt the easy hammer follow. To be continued... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyFL Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 hmmmmm. My only issue would be beating up the gun, but if you say it's not, that gives me something else to try. If you lighten the slide with the light RM don't you think that could/should "time" the gun back to where it is now? Good luck. I sure am glad you're doing all the leg work for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFoley Posted December 13, 2004 Author Share Posted December 13, 2004 Smitty, I think the timing will need to be changed either way. The good news is that different timing is probably the best chance at a solution we have found so far. I hope by the next time I see you, our guns are running for months and this will all be a very painful memory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny hill Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 Why not keep it simple, use a old fashion guide rod, 12# recoil spring & learn to shoot the gun instead of trying to make the gun shoot as you do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFoley Posted December 14, 2004 Author Share Posted December 14, 2004 Thanks Benny, I am going to a guide rod and spring by the weekend. I have been trying to shoot the gun more patiently, but when I see a good sight picture, shouldn't I be able to pull the trigger? It is so hard for me to hold back just a little without being deliberately slow. The difference is so small, my transmission doesn't have a gear for it so I suppose we will change the differential instead. Is a 12# spring a definite, or just a starting point? Thanks a million for your input, I appreciate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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