CAI-imported Grand Power K-100..?

[Canuck223]

Bad news: My K100 has developed a very dangerous issue: seems the firing pin is getting stuck in the forward position (yes, protruding through the front of the breech-face). I have no doubt that it would have slam-fired had I not noticed it just before I was about to charge it with a mag and chamber a round. The firing-pin doesn't seem to be broken, just getting stuck in the firing-pin channel and not returning via the firing-pin-spring (and we're talking stuck in a rigid manner, like plenty rigid enough to set off a primer). I took the pistol down and got the firing-pin unstuck by pressing in the firing-pin block and tapping on the firing pin's nose with another punch... once back together, the firing-pin became stuck once again after a couple dry-fire pulls.

Have you taken the firing pin out before this problem happened? (No, not suggesting you f-ed it up, but want to trouble shoot the problem)

The first time I took mine out to detail clean the slide, I tried to install the firing pin upside down, thinking that the firing pin safety engaged the pin on the opposite side.

I don't think you can actually seat the retaining pin to install it backwards. I could potentially see the firing pin safety being re-installed with it's spring in the wrong position. It would likely bind, and not spring back freely.

If it's not being used as a carry gun and you want real answers, press the firing pin retaining pin out, depress the firing pin safety, and remove the firing pin. Then you can remove the firing pin safety. If possible, post pictures of the parts. You can run the gun without the firing pin safety, and if only to trouble shoot this problem, I'd suggest you give it a try even if just at the bench.

Let me know how it goes or what happens.

[ck1]

Guys, I have not messed with the firing pin at all, and, most of the dry-fire I've done has been with a snap cap.

I have lubed the pistol, but I'm very careful about trying to keep lube away from, and out of, the firing pin channel. This isn't my first rodeo as they say, I'd consider myself more advanced than most having built/modded more than a few 1911's, and a bunch of CZ's and Glocks... Honestly, I've probably touched the K100 less than any other pistol I've owned in the last few years; I installed some sights, added the extended mag release, and have put less than 1000rds through it, that's it. I've never even taken it down beyond a basic field strip.

In fact, even if I had gotten crud or lube in there, or if it turns out the firing pin is somehow damaged from relatively little dry-fire, if that can cause a problem that can make the pistol unsafe, I don't think I'm willing to tolerate that kind of risk.

I called CAI and got no answers and the obligatory "you'll probably have to send it in"... I emailed Grand Power, so hopefully they are more help...

What concerns me is that the firing pin seems to get itself stuck pretty solidly, solid enough where i think it'll set off a primer before it gets pushed back in behind the breech-face, and there's no real way to test if it's truly unsafe without going to the range and seeing if it slam-fires... major bummer dude.

I love the gun, but safety is more important than all else, so hopefully I can find out what is up. If there is a real issue that I've discovered I'm seriously going to be annoyed as even at the bargain cost of the pistol, with sights, mags, holsters, etc. I'm into the rig for near $1000, and the idea of sending it off for a matter of weeks is going to be a huge disappointment.

Guess I'll have to wait and see...

Edited March 13, 2013 by ck1

[Canuck223]

If you do take it apart, I really want to know what you find.

Yes, I'm the resident fan boy for the brand, but if you got a lemon, I really want to know what went wrong.

I haven't heard of this type of problem with the Grand Power before, and would like to know the source.

[NicVerAZ]

^ What Canuck223 said. You need to take it apart. It is an easy 1-2-3 operation. 1-push the round button-like pin from under the slide, 2-pull the pin assembly with needle-nose pliers from the back and 3-inspect.

It can be an easy fix if not just a maintenance issue. If anything is damaged, please take a photo and email GP, if possible Jaroslav. He will want to see it.

By the way, go to page 23:

http://www.centuryarms.com/manuals/pdf_flipbook/K100%2c%20K100%20X-TRIM%2c%20P1%20Pistol%20Manual/index.html#/23/zoomed

The only issue I ever had was a weak strike due to powder crud (Needle nose pliers, Q-Tip, Hoppes 9 cleaner and my favorite gun lube).

[ck1]

Pics of the firing pin protruding through the front of the breech-face and of the rear of the firing pin from the back of the gun showing it stuck in the forward position have been sent to Grand Power, waiting to hear back.

I removed the firing pin (super easy process as it's exactly the same as the dozens of CZ's I've worked on over the years), there was almost zero lube or debris present in the firing pin channel, but I still put a few q-tips through it to make sure there was absolutely none whatsoever. The firing pin appeared perfect, almost brand new condition, showing virtually no signs of wear at all, firing pin return spring looked perfect and was also given a clean up though it didn't need it, firing pin block and it's spring looked perfect and were also treated to a cleaning they did not need. I then reassembled the pistol, function checked the firing pin and firing pin block, and after 3-4 dry-fires; stuck firing pin. I then repeated the firing pin breakdown/reassembly process a second time to ensure I hadn't missed anything out of the ordinary... same result: stuck f'ing firing pin.

A pistol that cannot be dry-fired (like at the end of a stage at "unload and show clear") is worthless. I'm pretty pissed.

Edited March 13, 2013 by ck1

[Canuck223]

If the parts you've listed look perfect, but the pin is still sticking forward, I'd be looking at the channel itself with a good light.

The only cause I can imagine that matches your description would be a hidden burr on the channel catching on the pin.

[ck1]

If the parts you've listed look perfect, but the pin is still sticking forward, I'd be looking at the channel itself with a good light.

The only cause I can imagine that matches your description would be a hidden burr on the channel catching on the pin.

The same thought had occurred to me, but the firing pin channel looks great.

I found a post from a guy selling an STI GP6 from a few years back with a "new updated firing pin and spring that fixes the problem of the firing pin getting stuck forward after dry-fireing it", we'll see if he gets back to me and has some/any info to share..?

Also, spoke with STI technical support, as I own a couple STI guns and figured they'd be of some help, they were cool and very nice, especially considering I was calling with questions about a pistol that didn't come to me through them and that they don't even import anymore: the tech I spoke with hadn't heard of any issue like I am having.

Here's the thing though that's really worrisome, it seems the firing pin is getting stuck in the forward position with it's tip protruding through the breech-face, while in front of the firing pin block, so once it's there, it's really stuck there. Good news (if you want to call it "good news") is that I tried to function test if it was truly on the verge of slam-firing by using a snap cap, trying to feed the snap-cap from a mag by either dropping the slide with the slide release or just racking it: both were pretty much a no go, instant feed jam with the back of the "cartridge" getting caught under the protruding firing pin tip while trying to slide up the breech-face... (can't be 100% sure it would jam the same way every single time though and would hate to find out the hard way that it won't)

So hooray! My pistol is most likely going to just jam and fail to feed a fresh round when I try to load it, instead of dangerously slam-firing! Lucky me! ;(

[NicVerAZ]

I don't quite understand how this is happening to you but I never had this issue and I dry fry the heck out of my Mk6 and my Mk7. What you are describing sounds very very fishy to me. It may very well be a lemon. Send it to CA and get them to sort it out. But seriously, this is the least exotic part of this gun. Everything else is very exotic. Pin, ping spring, autosafety. Are you sure you have it together the right away? Please grab my email address from my profile and email me.

[ck1]

Behold the cause of my frustration:

Seems the K100 beats the crap out of the firing pin's roll-pin during dry-fire just like some CZ guns... eventually to the point where the firing pin can get caught or stuck in the forward position, causing some individuals to get totally pissed.

I'm not sure yet, but if the roll pin is the same specs as the ones used in CZ's, I'll be replacing it with an improved (and bombproof) version from Cajun Gun Works or CZ-Custom ASAP. For now, I simply rotated the roll-pin so the dented area is not interacting with the firing pin and it seems to be good as new.

(FYI, in case anyone is worried about light-strikes from a K100, the hammer strike in SA mode sent a plastic Bic pen about 15 feet across a room where it stuck into a wall, so hard primers shouldn't be an issue.)

Martin Chreno from Grand Power pointed me in the direction of looking for, and then finding the problem, so he deserves some credit and thanks. Mr. Chreno has emailed me back without delay for the past few days while I was trying to track this down, and it's safe to say that Grand Power's customer service is as good or better than anyone else out there. It was quite clear that he was concerned I was having a problem, and wanted to help me fix the issue, also, he addressed me in a straight-up way which I feel is getting forgotten these days; in other words, he didn't approach me like some moron who would be lucky to put the bullets in the right end and blow me off like so many other gun companies do. We talked about technical specifics, and we worked through the problem, if he hadn't picked up on the fact that I was capable of taking down the firing pin internals my self (or didn't care), it would have meant weeks waiting while I sent the pistol off only to have a bench tech maybe have just missed it anyway as they'd just assume I couldn't be trusted to change a spring (I'm looking at you Glock Inc). I was told they would be happy to get replacement parts to me and I have no doubt that they will honer that.

Wusaw.

Edited March 14, 2013 by ck1

[Chris Keen]

Glad you got it figured out! I've seen lots of problems with firearms caused by $0.05 parts that at first didn't seem like it should be the cause but was. I had an STI Edge that had lots of hammer follow issues, and after replacing the hammer, sear, disco, firing pin, pins, etc. found out it was the adjustment screw from the Bomar sights that protruded down into the firing pin tunnel, and was causing all kinds of problems! Never would have thought of that!!

Edited March 14, 2013 by Chris Keen

[Chris Keen]

Let me first say that I'm certainly not placing any blame, or trying to insinuate anything, but just for "future use" or FYI if you will .... I'd be curious to hear how you took the firing pin & spring out & also the FP Block & spring, yet never actually saw the dented retaining pin. Did you just drive the retaining pin half-way out (just enough to remove said FP) and not remove it completely?

This is a great lesson for all of us who have guns with firing pin retainers (CZ, K100, XD, XDM, etc.). Just call it a teachable moment!

[ck1]

Let me first say that I'm certainly not placing any blame, or trying to insinuate anything, but just for "future use" or FYI if you will .... I'd be curious to hear how you took the firing pin & spring out & also the FP Block & spring, yet never actually saw the dented retaining pin. Did you just drive the retaining pin half-way out (just enough to remove said FP) and not remove it completely?

This is a great lesson for all of us who have guns with firing pin retainers (CZ, K100, XD, XDM, etc.). Just call it a teachable moment!

You are correct sir, never drove the pin out all the way and missed it. I should've looked at it with it all the way out (I'm a dumb-ass ).

[Chris Keen]

LOL Like I said, no harm / no foul, I'm just trying to anylize what went wrong, and keep it in mind for future use. I'm seriuosly interested in getting one of the K100's and am following all the discussions closely to know what to look for when / if I do.

Thank you for all your detailed info so far sir!

[ck1]

Excellent news: the firing pin retaining pin in the K100 is virtually the same as in a CZ. The K100's pin is 3x24mm, a CZ's is slightly shorter at about 3x20ish (by just eyeballing it). I found a stock CZ firing pin retaining pin that I had pulled and swapped out for a Cajun Gun Works' improved/bombproof type in one of my CZ-75B's I no longer have, and since it looked like it was in better shape than the beat-up one I had just rotated in the K100, I installed it in the K100 without a hitch.

The CZ pin is a bit shorter, but it's still as long as it needs to be, plenty long enough to retain the firing pin within the K100 without being sketchy at all. All checks show the K100 is happy again, and since now I know it'll fit/work, I've already ordered an improved retaining pin from CGW to install, so I can dry-fire to my heart's content (even without a snap-cap) and forget about all this drama.

[Canuck223]

Awesome outcome!

[Canuck223]

Let me first say that I'm certainly not placing any blame, or trying to insinuate anything, but just for "future use" or FYI if you will .... I'd be curious to hear how you took the firing pin & spring out & also the FP Block & spring, yet never actually saw the dented retaining pin. Did you just drive the retaining pin half-way out (just enough to remove said FP) and not remove it completely?

This is a great lesson for all of us who have guns with firing pin retainers (CZ, K100, XD, XDM, etc.). Just call it a teachable moment!

You are correct sir, never drove the pin out all the way and missed it. I should've looked at it with it all the way out (I'm a dumb-ass ).

You would be in good company. I rarely clear the roll pin. I just drift it enough to clear the firing pin.

[e-mishka]

Did any of you guys tried to fit cz/tanfo mag to gp?

[ck1]

Did any of you guys tried to fit cz/tanfo mag to gp?

No, but if you're talking about a small-frame Tanfo, I bet if you added the notch/hole in the front it would work (used to have one and the mags were just like CZ mags).

[Canuck223]

Did any of you guys tried to fit cz/tanfo mag to gp?

No, but if you're talking about a small-frame Tanfo, I bet if you added the notch/hole in the front it would work (used to have one and the mags were just like CZ mags).

Correctamundo, Small frame Tanfo mags will work if you get the hole in the front of the mag right.

Mec Gar mags for the CZ often have a hole in the right spot that just needs to be opened up a bit with a window file.

[PINMAN44]

Content removed at the member's request due to the business-related nature of the post.

[ck1]

Content removed at the member's request due to the business-related nature of the post.

Robby, thanks man.

Just to put it out there: while I was getting frustrated trying to track down the problem I was experiencing, it's worth mentioning that part of the problem is I seem to be the first guy with a K100 and an internet connection to mention anything... that tells me that there hasn't been very many issues, which is actually a good thing as gun-owners with problematic pistols tend to cry loudly (takes one to know one).

Secondly, and maybe more relevant, I don't necessarily see the fact that the K100 firing pin gets beat-up during lots of dry-fire as a design flaw or deal-breaker by any stretch... The same type of thing has been a known issue with many CZ guns for years, and I don't have a problem living with it now that I know better. Here's why: all machines break, and pretty much every gun design in the known world has an aspect to it's design that will allow damage to occur to it in unfamiliar hands, or something about it's design that when subjectively judged could be considered to be a "flaw" (i.e. drop the slide over and over on an empty-chambered 1911 and it will start to hammer-follow sooner or later, a right-handed shooter who uses a modern "thumbs-forward" grip on a Sig can de-cock the hammer inadvertently, if a Glock's recoil-spring becomes weaker than it's firing-pin-spring they sometimes blow-up, etc).

The issue has been uncovered, the solution is easy (check your K100's roll-pin if you dry-fire excessively, as apparently I do), and parts even already exist (albeit originally intended for CZ's) to make it a non-issue. So no big deal as far as I'm concerned. Many gun-owners tend to become fans of their favorite brands and will no doubt cite the dry-fire/roll-pin issue as a reason as to why the K100 isn't as awesome as their Glock/H&K/Sig/whatever... I feel like "who cares?", because those guys can go drop $300+ on trigger-jobs, and their triggers will still suck balls next to an out-of-the-box K100.

I hope anyone looking into a Grand Power K100 who may happen to stumble upon this thread reads enough of it to figure out that I'm still a huge fan them despite running into a problem, and that I would put one up against any other gun at whatever cost when it comes to performance.

Separate from the positive experience I had communicating with Grand Power over the roll-pin problem, the designer/owner himself had returned an email about a question I had sent them a while back before I had even bought one... so it's safe to say they've got the right idea when it come to Customer Service.

IMHO, Grand Power's design is kick-ass, period. Now that they're being offered at a lower price-point, they are going to get more looks from the unfamiliar. Having owned some of the best blasters available, I have to agree that the guns may very well be THE best value out there. Edited February 20, 2014 by benos

[cpa5oh]

Anybody know how heavy the double action pull is with this K100? I just had someone recommend the gun to me...

[ck1]

Anybody know how heavy the double action pull is with this K100? I just had someone recommend the gun to me...

DA is about 7-8lbs, and smooth without any hitches. If you've ever felt a Beretta 92 or any Sigs, expect to be impressed, it's far better. IMO it feels about the same or better than a broken-in CZC Shadow Custom's (so pretty darn good). Other than slicked-up wheel guns, the only DA that I've ever sampled in a semi-auto that really beats it is a Shadow Custom with a Cajun Gun Works' Ultra-Lite kit and 8.5lb or 11.5lb hammer-spring installed (but that recipe means Federal Primers ONLY or no bueno).

[Canuck223]

Rob, CK1 and others have hit on one issue that has been at the top of my list for years.

The K100 is an unbelieveable value, and I can't believe how under appreciated it is.

When you compare it's retail cost and then take a serious look at the competition, this gun is a sleeping tiger.

[ck1]

Shot a steel match a couple days ago in quite literally a downpour... the K100 ran without a hitch and it got soaked! Even left it overnight in my range bag before I got a chance to clean it, no rust, no problems to speak of.

Came in 5th overall against fully tricked 2011's and other race blasters (not to mention just plain better shooters), and I was way rusty as I hadn't made it to a single match in like 2 months... The gun made me look better than I probably should have (which is fine with me).

One thing I noticed: I probably shot too slow and could have pushed it more, still getting used to how quick the K100 settles down and comes back on target, it does it so fast that I'm still not quite used to it and I almost hesitate a split-second before I fire.... weird. I'm not sure if it's the rotating barrel or what, but it's definitely cool.