CAI-imported Grand Power K-100..?

[ck1]

Hey guys, I could no longer resist the temptation to buy one of these, as the prices have dropped to being about the same as a decent used Glock (mine was just over $425 from Bud's)...

I've handled (but not yet shot) a few of the STi-branded GP6's, and every single time they've left me thinking "could this be the po' man's Shadow?" (interpit that either of two ways: as in a way cheaper gun that's comparable to a Shadow's awesomeness -or- as in a polymer man's Shadow, as a lighter-weight poly-framed-Shadow is something I'd hoped CZ would have put out by now).

The only question I have is whether or not this Century Arms-imported K100 trigger is going to be up to the level of the STI-imported one's I've sampled? I had read somewhere on one of the forums that STI had requested that the ones they imported got a special trigger treatment (maybe something to do with their sears/hammers), but hoping that the changes weren't really much more than machining the GP6 hammers into looking more like STI's square hammers?

From everything I've read out there, even if the trigger on the one I just ordered is a pound or so heavier, I think I'll still be happy, as the triggers on the GP6's I've played with kind of blew me way.

I've tinkered with Glocks for years, and have gotten better than most at improving their triggers by leaps and bounds, and have shot several that were equipped with some pretty expensive Vanek kits, none were even close to being as good as the out-of-the-box GP6's I've felt. Really the only thing on par that I've tried with a trigger as nice has been a Shadow equipped with a CZC comp hammer and trigger-job (though, the GP6/K100 trigger-reset was way better, even better than any fully-worked-over 1911 I've had or played with actually).

Anyone know if the slightly different X-Calibur sear/hammer set-up will retrofit into the K100? If so, any idea as to how I'd get a hold of that set-up? Suppose if the trigger isn't as good as I'm hoping for, from what I've read describing the X-Calibur's trigger (as being a lightened-pull K100 feel), seems like swapping to that would do the trick to get what I'm after.

I'm pretty excited to put it through it's paces when it shows up, it is a really unique design as compared to what most of us are used to. I don't really have much apprehension to the rotating barrel set-up after playing with one and seeing how it works. The Grand Power design is freaking ingenious as far as the engineering is concerned, there's no locking-block to get the crap beat out of it, or shear itself or the barrel like in some other rotating-barrel designs I've seen. Instead of lots of right-angles and metal crashing into metal, the round shapes on the barrel roll over a big round cross-pin and functions more like a corkscrew that backs itself out, and then returns. If anything, when hand-cycling the gun, the rotating set-up seems fluid and "gentle", as their isn't really a "clunk-clunk" thing happening like when a barrel unlocks and then locks-up again in the Browning-based systems we're all used to. Like any other design, there is of course the point where the slide has finished it's travel rearward under recoil, and then has to return forward back into battery, but I bet with the right recoil spring one could dial even most of those vibes out.

The biggest issue to wrestle with at this point in time is the lack of aftermarket. Dawson had all the kit I'll probably need to have it ready to go for IDPA , so it's on the way too: holster, extra mag, extended mag release, and front & rear sights (I'm picky when it comes to sights, the stock ones will most likely get swapped before I even put a single round through the gun). I really wish this situation was a bit better and hope this changes. Hopefully changing out the mag release will be self-explanitory (if I even really need to), but if anyone has any tips, please feel free to share...

After the holidays I've been planning to pick up a new Shadow with CZC's SRTS trigger option added. As far as I know, before CZC came upon the SRTS, the K100'GP6's were the only DA/SA platform that did the neat trick of having it's trigger stay back in SA-mode (and free of all the usual take-up slack), CZCustom figuring out how to mimic that trick on a non-firing-pin-block CZ is huge, but the K100/GP6 still has it beat in the shortness of the trigger-reset. Here's the catch though: the CZC SRTS option adds $265 to the price of a $880 Shadow, and I just can't afford to do that right now with the holidays quickly approaching. My plan is that the the K100 will become a back-up once I get the new Shadow, as it's pretty much the only thing out there that operates similarly. The K100 actually might end up being my IDPA gun due to the stupid SSP weight rules, #2 behind the Shadow for USPSA (or #2 for both if the IDPA Tiger Teams come to their senses). That said, there is of course the chance that I may decide to stick with the Grand Power... leaving a lot of $$$ left for ammo

Edited November 30, 2012 by ck1

[Canuck223]

If you want to upgrade the K100 with the X-Calibur hammer group, it's not a problem.

It's just a matter of getting Century to order in the parts.

Grand Power also make a variety of different sights, mag buttons, and have a new wider *thumb rest [generic]* style safety lever. Y'all just need to convince CAI that it's in thier best interests to import them.

[ck1]

Now that the prices have come down to where they're at, hopefully more guys will give the K100/GP6 a look. Like I said above, the trigger is really on the same plane as a $1300 Shadow variant, so at $400-500 a lot of guys are going to be like "wow". IMHO STI should've introduced these at the lower price-point from the start, $650-750 is too much for most guys to take a chance on an unknown quantity no matter how good the chatter is. Now CAI has just got to avoid some of the same mistakes if they want them to take off; support the pistols for real (that means no $60 mag nonsense and such that would scare buyers away).

[Stan-O]

I don't know which generation of K100 CAI is importing, but you may want to check the USPSA Production guns list before you go to the match with you K100.

I'm very tempted to buy X-Calibur (thankfully the Canadian GP distributor is about 15 minutes away from me) when it comes over here, but I'm keeping my STI GP6-C until I see X-Calibur on the USPSA list as I shoot more matches in US than in Canada.

PS. I've recently sold my tuned Shadow and will be shooting GP6/X-Calibur next season. The DA pull on GP is a bit different and will take some time getting used to, but at my mediocre level I'm getting tighter groups on target with GP6.

Edited December 5, 2012 by Stan-O

[NicVerAZ]

I do not know how a Shadow shoots, never shot one. A local GM who shoots a Shadow even told me I was wrong to call my GP6 a "poor man's Shadow" (I did so as a joke) and he recognized the GP as a good gun in its own right,noticing that the European female production title went to a Grand Power shooter.

I have otherwise shot every other platform out there that are popular in Production and SSP (Glock, XDm, M&P, 9mm Trojan...) and for me it is the best platform. Emphasis on "for me".

My #1 frustration is getting people to even try it. It's insane. I offer them to try it and they decline. I have had people mock me and ask me why I bought "such a gun" with disgust in their voice. I don't know what to say... Maybe I have to start winning matches?

Important thing: I am still a beginner. This was my first center fire pistol and I never really shot pistols until January 2011. Until then I had shot ISSF bulleye. At the moment I end in the top 10% at local IDPA matches and about the middle of the crowd at USPSA matches while shooting production minor, and I know I am improving.

I train a lot and with a lot of discipline, dry firing every day and although I still make plenty of rookie mistakes, I am 100% confident that I would not have improved as fast with any other pistol. It is just that good of a gun. Ready to race out of the box, no need to get a trigger job. I believe it is the best stock single action trigger on a semi automatic pistol.

Although I like how STI treated me, I have to recommend against buying an STI GP6, especially a Mk6. Look for a Mk7. The Mk6 is prone to slide failure (check mark) as is the STI hammer (check mark). In both cases, STI treated me well, but I know of at least one girl who returned her GP6 to STI and traded it towards a Trojan 9mm after the hammer failed quickly.

We have one slight issue at the moment and I hope it will be fixed quickly. USPSA only has the K100 Mk6 listed on its production list, not the Mk7. When I emailed USPSA, I was told that only the Mk6 was currently allowed. Basically it would be like denying anyone with a Glock 17 Gen 3 to shoot, because only "Glock 17" and "Glock 17 Gen 4" are listed.

Note that this is not going to be an issue at local matches, only Area and Nationals. No one has inspected my GP6 at a local match.

As for the DA pull, it is indeed long, but I simply start engaging it while in the last inches of my pushing it away from my chest, at a moment where I already have my sights aligned and on the target. Once you have hit the wall it is about 5 / 6 lbs of pressure. It is only the first shot. And it is usually my best one.

I shot Tuesday from retention, one-handed and with the elbow on my side and I did not even notice the DA pull. The shot went right in the 0 zone, as did all the others

This pistol also auto-forwards pretty consistantly. I believe only the M&P does that. Some call it a flaw, I call that a feature.

[ck1]

I do not know how a Shadow shoots, never shot one. A local GM who shoots a Shadow even told me I was wrong to call my GP6 a "poor man's Shadow" (I did so as a joke) and he recognized the GP as a good gun in its own right,noticing that the European female production title went to a Grand Power shooter.

My apologies, haven't been in the gun boards much in a while as the unfortunate and sad Newtown incident triggered enough nonsense from all perspectives to where IMHO there was more to avoid than to take in...

That said, after shooting the K100 for a while (modded from the jump with DP sights and "big" mag release), that GM (no matter how much more skilled than you or I) is talking some BS, period.

The K100 is very much like a polymer Shadow Custom w/ the SRT trigger. I f'ing love me some CZ's, I think I've installed 10 comp hammers on different ones and done most everything that can be done to make them rock, I got lucky enough to score and live with a newer Shadow with the CZ-Custom SRT mod installed too, box-stock the K100 trigger is in the ballpark with 'em without a doubt. Since the only way to get about the same DA/SA trigger quality of a K100 is to spend an extra $300 for the CZC SRT option after buying a $900 Shadow, I'd say the "poor man's Shadow" comparison is very fair, the Shadows are heavier pieces so they aren't the same animal exactly, but to me the trigger is really their "magic". Atually, for many shooters coming from lighter, quicker transitioning guns (like Glocks or M&P's), the K100 due to it's polymer, and subsequent lighter weight, may feel more to their liking...

The pistol's design is really head and shoulders above what most are used to (including me) out of a factory "stock" gun, they're an unknown quantity and are still the "oddball" so there are haters, IMO the piece is legit.

I really hope they can somehow manage to put one of them in the hands of a Stoeger or another "name" in the games to get the word out... these guns are currently THE sleeper in "pistol awesomeness" IMHO.

MY favorite pistols for a while now have been 1911's for the crisp SA, Glocks for the bombproof-ness, and CZ's for the "best of both worlds" vibe; to me the K100 is a working hybrid of those 3 designs.

Edited February 22, 2013 by ck1

[underlug]

I do not know how a Shadow shoots, never shot one. A local GM who shoots a Shadow even told me I was wrong to call my GP6 a "poor man's Shadow" (I did so as a joke) and he recognized the GP as a good gun in its own right,noticing that the European female production title went to a Grand Power shooter.

My apologies, haven't been in the gun boards much in a while as the unfortunate and sad Newtown incident triggered enough nonsense from all perspectives to where IMHO there was more to avoid than to take in...

That said, after shooting the K100 for a while (modded from the jump with DP sights and "big" mag release), that GM (no matter how much more skilled than you or I) is talking some BS, period.

The K100 is very much like a polymer Shadow Custom w/ the SRT trigger. I f'ing love me some CZ's, I think I've installed 10 comp hammers on different ones and done most everything that can be done to make them rock, I got lucky enough to score and live with a newer Shadow with the CZ-Custom SRT mod installed too, box-stock the K100 trigger is in the ballpark with 'em without a doubt. Since the only way to get about the same DA/SA trigger quality of a K100 is to spend an extra $300 for the CZC SRT option after buying a $900 Shadow, I'd say the "poor man's Shadow" comparison is very fair, the Shadows are heavier pieces so they aren't the same animal exactly, but to me the trigger is really their "magic". Atually, for many shooters coming from lighter, quicker transitioning guns (like Glocks or M&P's), the K100 due to it's polymer, and subsequent lighter weight, may feel more to their liking...

The pistol's design is really head and shoulders above what most are used to (including me) out of a factory "stock" gun, they're an unknown quantity and are still the "oddball" so there are haters, IMO the piece is legit.

I really hope they can somehow manage to put one of them in the hands of a Stoeger or another "name" in the games to get the word out... these guns are currently THE sleeper in "pistol awesomeness" IMHO.

MY favorite pistols for a while now have been 1911's for the crisp SA, Glocks for the bombproof-ness, and CZ's for the "best of both worlds" vibe; to me the K100 is a working hybrid of those 3 designs.

Where can you actually buy one?

[ck1]

Where can you actually buy one?

J&G has them.

[underlug]

Where can you actually buy one?

J&G has them.

Thank you.

[Texmex247]

I've run a few hundred rounds through one of mine w/o any hiccups. It is the same gun the GP6 is but without the "failure prone" sti hammer. The century site also lists a 15rd mag capacity but I have managed to stuff 17 in mine just like the GP6. I have yet to compare trigger pulls but I may do that soon and report back. As I have said many times, this is easily the best kept secret in the European gun world. You should expect to see these creep up to a $500+ price tag over time just like the HS2000 did after it was called an XD and imported by springfield.

[ck1]

My only complaints so far have to do with finding freaking 9mm these days in order to shoot the sucker... the GP K100 is seriously as good or better than any other pistol I've owned/shot (a list which includes some of the best blasters available on the planet).

Also, I really like the "big button " extended mad release, and would have to recommend that upgrade for competition. I also changed the sights right away for Dawson one's in order to more closely mimic the all-black Warren/Sevigny type sights/ratios I've run on my Glocks and CZ's for years. YMMV.

The K100's have got to be the title holder of "most underrated (and unknown) pistol" award currently. In some ways it reminds me of how I felt when I first picked up a Tangfolio/EAA Witness Match before the word got out, and was like: "how could this thing be so good and still so cheap?". The K100 is, shockingly, better than that though...

[e-mishka]

My only complaints so far have to do with finding freaking 9mm these days in order to shoot the sucker... the GP K100 is seriously as good or better than any other pistol I've owned/shot (a list which includes some of the best blasters available on the planet).

Also, I really like the "big button " extended mad release, and would have to recommend that upgrade for competition. I also changed the sights right away for Dawson one's in order to more closely mimic the all-black Warren/Sevigny type sights/ratios I've run on my Glocks and CZ's for years. YMMV.

The K100's have got to be the title holder of "most underrated (and unknown) pistol" award currently. In some ways it reminds me of how I felt when I first picked up a Tangfolio/EAA Witness Match before the word got out, and was like: "how could this thing be so good and still so cheap?". The K100 is, shockingly, better than that though...

how is mags availability? holsters?

[ck1]

how is mags availability? holsters?

Like pretty much every other gun these days, finding mags that are in-stock is tough. IMO, the whole question of parts/accessories availability when it comes to a particular gun is kind of out the window at this point in time with all the panic buying going on... I mean as it stands today, good luck even trying to find some Glock 17 or 19 mags that aren't an unbelievable rip-off, and G17/19's are about as ubiquitous as it gets.

S**t, in some ways, at this point in time, the fact that the GP K100 is still so far under the radar may actually be a plus and make getting stuff for one easier...

Dawson Precision and Shooters Connection, as well as Century, all have mags, they're just all on backorder (think Century had the best price). IIRC, think Dawson still had some 10rd mags in-stock, but for some reason they're more $$$ then the hi-cap mags (for IDPA and Production 10 will do so it's probably not a big deal to pay $10 more to get ones to use right now if you're as impatient as I am), IDK..?

If all else fails you can modify CZ mags to work in the K100's (while still being GTG in the CZ's) pretty easily, you just need to put a notch/hole in the front of the mag body as the K100's mag release is ambi and grabs the mags in the middle instead of the side. The Mec-Gar CZ mags already have a hole in the right spot that just needs to be opened up a bit, using a small file I opened one up in like 5 mins that seems to work perfectly so far.

Blade-Tech and Comp-Tac make kydex for the K100's (look under STI GP6) and they fit in holsters made for the Springfield XD's surprisingly well.

[NicVerAZ]

Has anyone even adapted a CZ-75 magazine for a GP 9mm at all? I am curious. I may attempt to do it one day, buy a cheap used magazine and see what I can do with a Dremel and a carefully made template. If I screw up, I still can resell or donate the magazine to a CZ shooter.

I was about to go and buy an extra 20-round magazine from Dawson and they are out. I waited too long, they are out of them.

Anyway, 17-round GP6 magazines are available at Shooters Connection, the other Web site which carries GP6 parts.

Both Dawson and Shooters Connection carry parts for the GP6 and they are of course interchangeable with the K100.

I would jump on the holster if I were you. They do not fit the beveled tip of the K100 but all you need is adjust the screws and it fits. The STI GP6 has an edged tip, the holster fits it like a glove but it remains functional for the K100.

As for sights, D.C. has some but Dawson has more. I opted for the tall ones with the .180 tall x .125 wide. The read sight only supports windage adjustment with a wrench, we obviously need a target sight.

Obviously a smith can drill the slide and install a target sight for you with easi E/W adjustment but that's definitely f*#kwithitis as once you have adjusted your rear sight, make sure you have it really tight on after zeroing it at a good natural distance (like 45') and you should be fine.

As for the extended magazine release, there again I would grab them as they are still available. But read the rules. I would bring over the regular magazine release and train myself to retrofit in a hurry in case you meet that kind of SO / RO.

[Sixstone]

I picked up a new K100 MK7 off of Gunbroker this winter for a very reasonable price after reading good reviews about them.

I found a Ready Tactical holster for it for sale on this site, found some new sites and more 17 round (expensive) magazines at Dawson's.

I started shooting Glocks regularly last summer and improved quite a bit over the summer. I took the K100 out last weekend in the cold and snow with my heavy parka, on so it was just shooting at some targets I put out 15 yards in the snow bank. Shooting my 124 gr reloads, it was like, wow, this sucker shoots straight! Two magazines only, but both were right on target. I think I will enjoy getting used to this new shooter come spring time as I see a lot of potential for more improvement with it.

Edited March 5, 2013 by Flexmoney
turned off italics

[ck1]

In case anyone is wondering, besides the different hammer shapes, the pics attached show the only external difference I have found between the STI GP6 and the GP K100 (and what NicVerAZ was referring to above when he said "beveled tip"). They're almost identical, but not exactly, the front of their slides are slightly different.

Fear not, GP6 holsters work great for the K100's, you may just need to back out the retention screws a turn or two, or maybe hit the "nose" of the holster with a hairdryer/heat-gun for a minute if you're kind of OCD and want it closer to perfect...

[NicVerAZ]

Funny thing is that the slanted slide is also found in some European K100 MK7s.

I could bother Jaro on Facebook and ask him why the difference, but it must just be fashion, or maybe the bevel simply adds an ounce at the tip of the gun, and somehow helps reduce recoil, who knows.

Let's go with "slanted slide" vs "beveled slide".

[ck1]

Got a 10rd STI GP6 mag today, after checking it out, it doesn't drop free... Anyone experienced this? Will it wear-in and start to drop, of send it back?

Given the scarceness of mags at the present I'd like to hold onto it if it'll work... TIA.

[Canuck223]

Check the baseplate of the suspect mag. Look to see if it's tight to the frame by comparison to it's brothers. There is sweet F-all to bind in the mag well, and even with the dimples front and rear it should not be catching. I have seen baseplates that were a tad thick cause trouble seating. Could also be too tight to release I suppose.

[ck1]

Figured out that the 10rd mag had been "bulged" a bit due to the dimples being added to neuter them from full capacity... After inserting it and dropping it about 1000 times, the mag now drops free about 80+% of the time, though, seems to not drop as often from slide-lock, I gave it some extra squeeze love to get it back in-shape but decided to be conservative before I f'ed it up worse. Seems to be wearing-in though, so it can just ride in my last mag pouch until it sorts itself out so I don't have to sweat it not dropping when I need it to.

Put another 300rds through the K100 though (which seems like a lot considering how scarce 9mm is these days), runs like a watch, and I'm digging it more and more. My trigger has now worn in a little after lots of dry-fire and sadly not a lot of live fire, SA is sitting at about 3.5lbs and crispy, DA feels like 7-8lbs and is smooth.

The trigger freaks everyone out that I let try it, no one expects some >$500 poly gun that they've never heard of to have a better trigger than their fancy $$$ 1911 .

Edited to add: I had read that some had experienced wobble or play in the mags of their Mk6/GP6 guns with them inserted; I can feel that there are raised "ridges"inside the mag funnel of my Mk7 frame and my mags are slop-free when inserted... I'm wondering if Grand Power had changed/added the "ridges" to kill the mag wobble and it would explain why the 10rd mag being slightly out-of-shape might cause it to stick, IDK?

Edited March 12, 2013 by ck1

[Canuck223]

.

Edited to add: I had read that some had experienced wobble or play in the mags of their Mk6/GP6 guns with them inserted; I can feel that there are raised "ridges"inside the mag funnel of my Mk7 frame and my mags are slop-free when inserted... I'm wondering if Grand Power had changed/added the "ridges" to kill the mag wobble and it would explain why the 10rd mag being slightly out-of-shape might cause it to stick, IDK?

Look at where the mag is retained in this design. High and central at the front of the mag. Right up until the last 1/4 inch of home, there's no real advantage to it being tight.

With a barrel moving straight forward and back, the angle the round is presented could probably be a wee bit more variable than a Browning style and still function 100%.

My guess is the inner ridges are more to fill in the void than anything else. The grip has to hold the magazine in the right position, anchor the trigger pivot, and house the frame insert. Since nobody wants 100% contact between the mag walls and the wag well, the ridges are probably dimentioned to stiffen and hold the magazine as solidly as required while still shedding any dirt, etc.

[e-mishka]

I called century today to find out about mags, they couldn't say when mags will be available and for how much.

It sucks that it only comes with 2 mags, not even enough for idpa

[NicVerAZ]

SA is sitting at about 3.5lbs and crispy, DA feels like 7-8lbs and is smooth.

I believe that the SA is at 2lbs, which is pretty nice for a production gun. I have seen a lighter pull only on race 1911 and on some stock S&W pistols (SA of course).

DA is above 6 but I am not sure about the 8lbs. It is the big drawback and why it is maybe not the best production gun to classify on if you are relatively new to the sport (as I am).

In IDPA I am considering switching from SSP to ESP not just because of the DA, but also because the stock magazine release is not really race-minded.

[ck1]

Bad news: My K100 has developed a very dangerous issue: seems the firing pin is getting stuck in the forward position (yes, protruding through the front of the breech-face). I have no doubt that it would have slam-fired had I not noticed it just before I was about to charge it with a mag and chamber a round. The firing-pin doesn't seem to be broken, just getting stuck in the firing-pin channel and not returning via the firing-pin-spring (and we're talking stuck in a rigid manner, like plenty rigid enough to set off a primer). I took the pistol down and got the firing-pin unstuck by pressing in the firing-pin block and tapping on the firing pin's nose with another punch... once back together, the firing-pin became stuck once again after a couple dry-fire pulls.

Frankly, I'm kind of pissed, as I wasn't at the range, but at my home, having just attached a TLR-1, preparing to load it and place it my bedroom safe to be ready as a home defense weapon.

I don't wan't to cause any hysteria, but a firing-pin that protrudes through the breech-face (when the pistol appears to be operating 100% correctly in all other respects) could have life and death consequences and is something I have never encountered with any other pistol of just about every brand out there. I intend to contact Century Arms ASAP and if they don't have me hanging up the phone with a new sense of 100% confidence the K100 is going to have to go away...

[NicVerAZ]

Have you cleaned up and lubed the striker channel? There used to be a Youtube video but I cannot find it any longer. I will have to look for it somewhere... Maybe make one of my own someday. But you need to push the round pin from under the slide and pull the mechanism with needle nose pliers from the breech side and turn it 1/4 turn one way (I think CW). I use Q-Tips with Hoppes 9. Don't overdo the lubing, as liquids are incompressible (as you know).

The K100 requires some TLC about every 1,000 rounds or so if you shoot your own reloads. I use Unique powder in the winter (yes, we have a winter in Arizona) and it is a dirty powder. TLC means cleaning up said channel as well as pulling the trigger mechanism to give it a simple cleanup without doing much more. And yes, with cleaner burning fast commercial loads you can shoot it thousands of time without doing much more than a simple field strip cleanup every 1,000 rounds and get above 99.99% reliability.

As for home defense, my STI GP6 loaded with my home recipe of 125 HP @ 150PF is what I have with the regular recoil spring and the stock sights from the K100, which are more night-friendly. The GP6 has been retired from competition after more than 20K rounds fired.

My K100 is my competition pistol and I have promised not to talk about springing any more but all I can say it is set up to spit out 147gr @ 130PF with minimal recoil. Dawson sights, extended magazine release is all I farted around with.

It is good to have a backup gun.