CocoBolo Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Ok I took the Plunge, got an Akdal on the way and 4 10rd factory mags. I thought about a FireBird Custom, but then I shoot maybe 2 or 3 UPSA style 3-Gun matches a year. I don't like collapasable stocks and that Dave Cambell said he just got one and started shooting it. So what are the absolute essentials just to get the thing out there running, with decent 3 1/4dram 1 1/8 oz loads, thats what I shoot in my Tactical FN that runs and runs (Remington), it will be the backup. Do I need the bushing? It would appear from reading that the stock recoil spring needs to stay, is that correct? I have an EO Tech and a C-more as well as a Burris fast fire so one will find its way onto the gun. Maybe I should hang on to the 1100 Rem and speed loaders for a while? Is it myth or truth I have to hide from the ATF when I poke the 10rd mag in, I got no idea what a 922 is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Get the Firebird conversion. You can find a stock you like and put it on (like a fixed skeleton stock) and the conversion fixes the heel drop (which you will find lifts your head off the stock to see a reddot), along with a big bunch of other stuff, like good trigger, fixed ramp problems, better gas system,I could go on and on. Also you won't have to use those hammering heavy loads anymore so you can get quicker splits. Using a stock 1919 is comparable to using a factory built STI open gun...it needs a bunch of TLC! jj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CocoBolo Posted November 27, 2012 Author Share Posted November 27, 2012 Thanks JJ - Maybe I should have titled it How do I get the most out of a Stock Akdal. With the minimum modifications, and parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatland Shooter Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Good evening Ron. If my understanding is correct, you will need to install sufficient US made parts to make the stock Akdal 922 compliant before you can legally shoot it with those 10 rd magazines. Review of the MKA 1919 with information on 922 compliance. http://gunsumerreports.com/review_akdal_mka_1919_p1.php In addition to Firebird, here are a few places to get parts for the MKA 1919 http://centerfiresystems.com/MKA-1919CONV.aspx http://centerfiresystems.com/MKA-1919CONV.aspx http://www.tromix.com/mka-parts.htm Let us know how it runs once she's finished. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatland Shooter Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Double tapped on the Centerfire website. Intended to include http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/StoreFront Can't seem to get the editor to work. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatland Shooter Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 As for hiding from the ATF, I don't think you will be able to change out enough parts to make it 922 compliant without changing the buttstock and grip. Running your MKA 1919 with either one stock will be a big red flag. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THM7 Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 forum.Saiga-12.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeAZ Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 I have a Firebird Akdal..... I'm sure that as soon as you use those 10 round mags without "922" compliance you open yourself up for possible BATFE action IF they want to make a case ???. (Things could be slow around the office?) (Not unlike having a AR 15 and a bunch of M 16 full auto parts, ala building a machine gun). Back to the Firebird Akdal, to my knowledge, Jim is currently the only one who is active in the conversions to the Akdal's for our sport and even he runs into problems from batch to batch....The Saiga site is the place to go for info OR this site and "Firebird" in the vendors area. Once the 15 round mags are out ..... You will be seeing lot's of Akdal's... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipplehead Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Coco..You need the new gas sytem from firebird I hope you got it. The gun does not run well with heavy loads if you have that gas system. Mine runs remmy 2 3/4 dram EQ...1150FPS light target load. make sure you wath the vidoe by Firebird on dissassembly or you will dammge the feedramps. the first time out it more then likely will gouge the upper reciever due to sharp edges on the bolt..specifically the flap on the top of the bolt ...that needs to be smooothed out. if you dont do this prior to shooting the gun expect a bunch of metal shavings in the reciever area. If this happens you need to smooth alll effected parts including the uppper reciver..and run this gun extremely wet. Glad you have an 1000..the barrel throat needs to be smoothed out aswell..the area around the notch for the extractor is very sharp round all the corners..feel your 1100 and compair. Lastly ythe action that the bolt rides on, the arms have lots of rough machine marks sand all that smooth. Did I say run it wet..real wet...Mine honestly runs 100% and the action feels like butter. you have help me on the open gun side many times ..I thank you for that...if you do all I say yours will run too...remeber that if you have the new gas system DO NOT TRY TO SHOOT HEAVY ROUNDS...the bolt out runs the mags and you will beat your head against the wall and blame the gun..ps its recoil is not soft like a remmmy..so shooting light loads is much easier on the old bones! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentG Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Save yourself the time a aggrivation. Just send it to Jim. He is working on a aluminum lower but thats not ready yet. He is also doing a feed ramp upgrade on all guns he does now. Im sending mine back for the upgrade this week. I was an early adopter with an out of spec rail gun. Plus the cool jewels. The gas system mods he does makes a big diff. As the year went on mine ran better and better. Gen 2 mags with new springs run great for me with AA loads. I dont have any new import 10 rounders yet because Im waiting on the 15 round molded adapter. May get a couple anyway to have on hand. By the time you try to do it yourself you will have just wished you had sent it to Firebird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Get it done right. Have Jim at Firebird get the shotgun legal and running like a race car. Life is too short to be spending time in prison and losing your firearms rights. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipplehead Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 (edited) Coco..mine is a full blown firebird open gun...all the things I said in the prevous post still hold true...3 still areas need to be smoothed out. Mine is as smooth as butter when you feel the action. Edited November 27, 2012 by nipplehead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CocoBolo Posted November 28, 2012 Author Share Posted November 28, 2012 I running the stock stock and factory 10rd when I get the gun, the mags already showed up. So am I still in trouble? I have no intention of changing the stock unless I break it. I got rid of the 6 position stock on my AR went with the A2, shot it for 10 years in the Army and prefer it. So these things kick like shooting a fence post like the old bolt action mossbergs, go figure. Thanks for the input, got the drimmel laid out on the bench, ready for the gun to arrive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentG Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 I was going to keep my stock but as I remember Firebird cant do the trigger job for some reason without replacing the stock and grip. Not sure. Adding the comp helped a bunch and I sent my barrel to a 3rd party to have the forcing cone reamed. I dont know if Firebird does this as part of the package or not. Without beating a dead horse your going to end up going to Firebird. Just gonna spend some time and money before you get to that conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatland Shooter Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 I was going to keep my stock but as I remember Firebird cant do the trigger job for some reason without replacing the stock and grip. Not sure. Adding the comp helped a bunch and I sent my barrel to a 3rd party to have the forcing cone reamed. I dont know if Firebird does this as part of the package or not. Without beating a dead horse your going to end up going to Firebird. Just gonna spend some time and money before you get to that conclusion. Nanci advised that along with the HES gas system, comp and various other tweaks to make the full race MKA 1919 run better, Jim also cuts the forcing cone. Looking at just the 922 compliant MKA 1919 that Firebird builds and sells through Centerfire, the parts plus the stock gun almost add up to the price for the conversion. Jim must work cheap cause there is not much room in there for his labor. I'm not ready for the full race gun but i'm sure hoping Santa Claus has Centerfire on his speed dial. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CocoBolo Posted December 1, 2012 Author Share Posted December 1, 2012 Ok so I read everthing with the word AKDAL in it on the web. They called the gun came in, I had about decided to put it straight up for sale not even bring it home after reading all the horror stories, including those of the converted guns. But I brought it home looked it over. Immediate impressions. What have I got myself into. I decided to put a few rounds in the new 10 round mags and cycle them thru the gun. Big suprize fast or slow they just feed right thru. Looked into the action and it looked like someone crapped a load of steel shavings in it. So it is getting the cleaning and debrurr job before it goes for its range audition. And some of my favorite Rigg grease in key areas along with a health dose of CLP. Things right off the bat I noticed. Definately need a bigger mag release. The sights are useless as tits on a boar hog. I took them off and put my EOTech on, yeah, now I could hit something. The trigger feels like one of those Para's at academy, about a 12 pound pull. So it gets worked on or replaced. I see what Jim means about the butt plate, so before I strip the holes out I will get one. The bolt handle is a bit ruff on the hand might replace that. With rounds in the mag or the bolt closed the mags fall out nice but when empty and the bolt open you have to pull the mag out. I can't count so I'm going to have to work on that as well. On the 10 rounders there is a little plunger sticking out the back of the mag, didn't read about that, so inserting the mag isn't zakley like chucking one up in an AR so a little reload practice will be in order. I figured out that manually loading a round is probably a bad idea, when you closed the bolt it will probably mess up the extractor so I won't do that till I hear different. (this is something I learned on my CZ Shadow). The wife looked and it and said "Seriously Turkey", Then she proceeded to tell me it didn't look like a shotgun it looked like a plastic piece of crap. Next it was "I thought you loved the 1100 open gun", at which point I told her a man can love more than one gun, then bit my lip, went out to the shop. If it runs great, if it don't I'll take it to the gun show and dump it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentG Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 If the new 10 rounders are like the oem mags the reason it may not fall free is the plunger is the LRHO actuator. It is hitting the top of the slot most likely. The follower should rest on the feed lips not the LRBHO actuator. Take the mag and LIGHTLY file the mag body at the top of the slot so it moves freely when the mag is empty. Worked for mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH45 Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 If the new 10 rounders are like the oem mags the reason it may not fall free is the plunger is the LRHO actuator. It is hitting the top of the slot most likely. The follower should rest on the feed lips not the LRBHO actuator. Take the mag and LIGHTLY file the mag body at the top of the slot so it moves freely when the mag is empty. Worked for mine. Kent, My Firebird mags drop free, but, my factory mags are iffy. Can you post, or, email me a picture of what you are referring to be filed? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3gungeezer Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 Coco, you decide you want to sell it, I'll buy it. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentG Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 If the new 10 rounders are like the oem mags the reason it may not fall free is the plunger is the LRHO actuator. It is hitting the top of the slot most likely. The follower should rest on the feed lips not the LRBHO actuator. Take the mag and LIGHTLY file the mag body at the top of the slot so it moves freely when the mag is empty. Worked for mine. Kent, My Firebird mags drop free, but, my factory mags are iffy. Can you post, or, email me a picture of what you are referring to be filed? Thanks! I dont have a pic at the moment. The easy way to check is to check the mag whilie empty. IF the LRBHO plunger moves in and out without rubbing on the top of the slot in the mag body you should be good to go. Check all your mags and I bet the Firebird mags are free moving. IF the LRBHO moves freely then you may have a different issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH45 Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 If the new 10 rounders are like the oem mags the reason it may not fall free is the plunger is the LRHO actuator. It is hitting the top of the slot most likely. The follower should rest on the feed lips not the LRBHO actuator. Take the mag and LIGHTLY file the mag body at the top of the slot so it moves freely when the mag is empty. Worked for mine. Kent, My Firebird mags drop free, but, my factory mags are iffy. Can you post, or, email me a picture of what you are referring to be filed? Thanks! I dont have a pic at the moment. The easy way to check is to check the mag whilie empty. IF the LRBHO plunger moves in and out without rubbing on the top of the slot in the mag body you should be good to go. Check all your mags and I bet the Firebird mags are free moving. IF the LRBHO moves freely then you may have a different issue. Thanks! I'll look at them again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CocoBolo Posted December 2, 2012 Author Share Posted December 2, 2012 All prepped to take it out and try it. Disassembled it, didn't break the ramp. Had to make a trip to Harbour freight for the 6 mm I could put on a long extension. I bought a nice 240 piece drimmer kit while there, for polishing sanding etc. So I took it down washed it out with brake cleaner. Went over every part looking for sharp or rough edges, didn't find any. Gave the chamber entrace a little sanding but it was pretty much alread radiused. Ditched the sights mounted the EoTech. Once I got it lubed up right, it dry cycles like butter. The final assembly check was to load a couple mags and dry cycle them thru. Seems to feed and eject just fine. The first 10 rd I loaded I got 11 in it, so maybe after a little use the others will go 11 as well. Taking it with me to a steel match today, and afterwards hope to run a 100 or 200 round thru it. Rounded up all my slugs, buckshot, heavy hunting, and then some Sure Shot Rem to run thru it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickfromnapa Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Cocobolo Read this to see how to get 922r compliant without cutting the stock: http://www.gunsumerreports.com/review_akdal_mka_1919_p7.php They have a BATFE letter naming the parts the 922r rule looks at for the MKA 1919. I also got a hammer from Carolina Shooters which you will need to have enough US parts to legally run the factory 10 rnd mags. FP's mags have a US made mag base, so if you are using the factory mags with the Turkish mag base on the factory mags, the Gunsumer recommendation Plus the US made hammer will bring the gun down to the 10 foreign part maximum with the factory mags. If you get caught using the 10 rnd mags with the stock 14 non-US parts, it's a felony. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frag316 Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 As for hiding from the ATF, I don't think you will be able to change out enough parts to make it 922 compliant without changing the buttstock and grip. Running your MKA 1919 with either one stock will be a big red flag. Bill Actually, you can't make the 1919 922 compliant by adding either a pistol grip or stock to it--the lower receiver is all one piece, so it only counts as a 922-compliant part if you change out the whole thing. The best way to make the gun 922 compliant is to change out the piston, trigger, disconnector, and hammer. TROMIX makes the first three, Atomic City (I think) makes the hammer. Carolina Shooters' Supply carries all four parts. My factory 10-rounders all worked flawlessly. Dropped free and fed everything I put into them. I'm shooting Walmart bulk 12 gauge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
congewe Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 On mine I installed a T19-06 - Tromix Trigger & Disconector, Tromix Reduced Power Recoil Spring, Tromix gas booster bushing, EO Tech 512. Shooting Remington Gun Club Target Loads 2 3/4, 7 1/2oz. Gun likes to run wet. The Tromix trigger made a huge difference and was no problem to install. The factory plastic trigger is junk. Gun cycles and shoots without issue. Very happy with this gun. Won't argue with your wife's assessment but it sure is fun to shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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