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Hey. I'm a long-time lurker and reader; I created an account to ask this question actually, as it's the first time I've seen a question that hasn't been answered.

Has anyone given any thought to a multi-gun stage based upon Alvin York's CMOH citation? As a first stage, I'd like to design a stage based on Alvin York's Medal of Honor citation. As near as I can tell, someone posted it as a throwaway thought in a stage design thread, but no one's ever really discussed it much since.

From what I've been able to glean from a bit of Google-fu, it sounds difficult even with modern optics and firearms. However, its distance (25 yards) and layout (I'm theorizing an L-shaped machine gun ambush), in addition to the fact that the feat was undertaken from a stationary position seem to make it well-suited for a rifle/handgun stage.

So, there are 25-28 credited total kills for York's encounter, depending on whether the regimental account or the biographical account is taken.

6 handgun targets done far to near, per his diary, gives us 19-22 targets simulating machine gunners followed by six handgun targets.

I do not know how many Germans it took to service a Maxim gun, but Wikipedia suggests a crew of four. This gives us 5 to 6 groups of 4 targets; let's call it 6 of 4 targets. All the machine gunner targets were taken with headshots; figure a clay disc or a decapitated USPSA target up against a berm at 25 yards could serve.

Here, I am unfamiliar with the layout of machine gun ambushes. With two lines and six positions covering 270 degrees, is it as simple as two lines of three evenly spaced target groups?

The handgun targets are a little easier for me to figure out. They were engaged from far to near while the targets were at a dead run from a distance of 25 yards. Ideally six targets with heads only exposed would charge upon completion of the upper array, but more feasibly, assuming Mr. York had a split time of 1 second (is that realistic?) we'd get an array of six USPSA targets with the bodies covered with black, spaced 2.5 yards yards apart; that means the nearest target is 10 yards away from the shooter.

So the stage goes:

Start with loaded rifle (five 5 round magazines if you want to be really authentic!) at low ready and loaded handgun. Engage 25-yard target arrays with rifle, one round each. Clear and abandon rifle and engage upper A-zone (perhaps this should be made clear with hard cover?) of the "running" handgun targets far to near.

Does this sound sensible?

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Other potential sources if you want to get the layout absolutely correct might be the post historian at Ft Bragg, NC (home of the 82nd) or the military attache at the US embassy in Paris (when I was stationed in Germany in the late 90s, we did a staff ride through the Meuse-Argonne, including the ground where it's thought York's action happened, guided by the attache)

Also, have you tried locating the movie, which starred Gary Cooper? (Hard to go wrong with Gary Cooper) Minor historical inaccuracy note - in the movie, they showed York using an M1903, when in reality, he used an M1917.

And don't forget 7 round pistol mags if you're going for historical accuracy!

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Oh, nice. Couldn't hurt to drop a respectful e-mail. Can't seem to find a "post historian" for Ft. Bragg though - perhaps the museum might suffice?

I know, how about a movie-based stage!

"At the audible start signal, using a bolt-action, iron-sighted rifle of at least .30-06 caliber engage twenty-five paper targets at a distance of 25 yards..."

Aren't 1903's fed by stripper clips? The mind boggles.

Keeping in mind that York had a rifle with a 6-round magazine and five-round CLIPS (yes clips) the mind further boggles at what he might have had to do as far as weapon manipulation during his fight.

It is mildly amusing to think that perhaps a similar rounds-per-magazine limitation might be imposed upon modern rifles. Perhaps a further condition of .30-06/.308/7.62 fire one round per machine gunner target, while 5.56/7.62x39/5.45 fire two rounds (and ten-round magazines)?

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Somebody at the Division Museum can probably point you in the right direction.

https://82ndairbornedivisionmuseum.com/cube/contact-us/info_2.html?ccUser=

And your last condition is quite similar to the rules used for WWII Division at this year's TX Muligun match (they also applied to Heavy Division, but I was in WWII) - .30-06 and .45 only required 1 hit on the target, while .223 and 9mm/.40 required two. (However, if you missed with a WWII/Heavy gun, it counted as TWO misses.)

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I have though of a Sgt. York stage before. To make it real good, you need 7 of MGM's charging targets to pop up and run at the shooter whe he fires his last rifle round. You could set up a pressure pad in the bottom of a dump barrel so they would activate when the rifle went into the barrel.

Hurley

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Alvin York Stage, very awesome. Audie Murphy stage and maybe a Teddy R. stage where you had to charge up a hill with a .30-40 Krag. Now we have a match!

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I have though of a Sgt. York stage before. To make it real good, you need 7 of MGM's charging targets to pop up and run at the shooter whe he fires his last rifle round. You could set up a pressure pad in the bottom of a dump barrel so they would activate when the rifle went into the barrel.

Hurley

That is a superb idea, but... Yowza! $2,499 for the charging MGM target? I had no idea range equipment was this magnitude of "expensive". I will be *much* more respectful of the action range equipment now... Maybe I could try talking the Richmond Rod & Gun Club into investing in a set :)

The first thing that occurred to me was to make some smartass comment about how you could use R/C trucks instead, but then I realized that someone probably already thought of that and it would actually be a really effective way to destroy an R/C truck ("Dude, you shot the truck!" "Awww, dangit...") and also difficult to keep as standard across all the shooters.

What about hanging targets on a big-ass upside-down menorah-shaped wire contraption sliding across another wire fixed to two stakes? I could probably cobble that together just with what's at the range. A cheap electrical motor could be used to draw the targets. Wire would be easy to repair if (inevitably it would seem) shot accidentally.

I can't help but think though that someone has tried and discarded the upside-down menorah idea.

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The 2008 Fort Benning 3-Gun had all the stages based on Medal of Honor citations. Here's is the one based on Alvin York's:

There are many ways you could interpret the citation into a good 3-gun stage though.

Edited by jtielke

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The 2008 Fort Benning 3-Gun had all the stages based on Medal of Honor citations. Here's is the one based on Alvin York's:

There are many ways you could interpret the citation into a good 3-gun stage though.

Y'know, that looks a *lot* like Ronald Rosser's CMOH citation. In particular the trench section and all the running back and forth. Now there's another difficult to recreate one - what would you do, stage some grenades? (OH GOD YES PLEASE but no, that would be horribly unsafe). That dude... In the dictionary of manliness under "righteous vengeance" it should have this picture:

Ronald_E_Rosser.jpg

No matter how much you shoot, you will never be as awesome as this guy :)

Back on topic though, how about an Audie Murphy-themed stage reading artillery coordinates from a pad and cracking jokes while engaging with a rifle, then turning to engage close-range targets with shotgun or handgun? Is it allowable or unsafe in some unforeseeable way to force the shooter to perform some arbitrary task in this manner during the course of a stage?

Edit: And it is COMPLETELY crazy that the course designers dug that insane trench system. Ft. Benning apparently goes all out! Now there's something difficult to re-create in a civilian context.

Edited by TriggerHippie

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Well, the Benning School for Boys has access to Army engineer support, who can dig trenches and tag it as training in their budget. And privates from Sand Hill to fill sandbags.

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The Ft. Benning matches had some cool stages, props and range transportation. I sure do miss those matches.

Hurley

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Hmm. I think the easiest way may be to lay something out and email it to them as an image or PDF, ask, you know, "this look about right?"

I cadged up a stage diagram the other day with Balsamiq, let's see if I can google where in the forums that stage ppt was.

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First draft. Please critique and suggest refinements or (o noes!) complete rearrangements. Don't hold anything back, I work in writing. I eat criticism and poop excellence!

I'm assuming a rather small bay (bay #4 at Richmond if anyone knows it) with a berm on two sides.

http://imageshack.us...vinyorkv01.jpg/

Edited by TriggerHippie

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