Sporting Clays with 3 gun shotgun

[MikeRush]

I shot a sporting clays course last week for the first time: what a blast! I would eventually like to get a proper SC gun, a nice O/U, but for now a 2011 for Limited comes first.

I have a Winchester SX2 with a 24" barrel and an extension that I use for shotgun side matches at steel shoots- I was trying to build familiarity with the gun by shooting it in SC but I didn't do too well with it. Quite honestly I can hit steel with it very fast, not sure I need to use only 1 shotgun.

I also have an 870 I use for hunting dove and quail, my performance on aerial targets tends to be much better with that, and I can cycle the pump reasonably fast for doubles.

Right now the closest course is a little over an hour and a half away but I am dying to go again. I just picked up Breaking Clays by Chris Batha and I am soaking up what I can from that book.

I am not at a point in my life where SC will be my main shooting priority but I would love to be proficient and improve my skills.

Should I stick with the semi? Shoot the 870? Wait until I can afford a B-Gun? I am interested to know what people who have gone down the SC path think about equipment, maybe either fighting with or succeeding with their 3 gun rig?

[leftnose]

If you're just shooting for fun, shoot any gun you want; it doesn't matter. If you really decide to get serious, I would suggest at least a Beretta A400 Sporting model if you want to buy new. Otherwise, look for a 391 Sporting in good shape.

As far as my equipment, I started with a Browning Citori, changed to a Perazzi MX-2000, flirted with a 391, and I've now settled on a Krieghoff K-80. If I'd had any brains, I should have gone to the 391 and stuck with it.

Does your 24" barrel accept choke tubes? If so, buy an IC or LM, screw it in and go have fun!

[hitman_usmc]

I just went down the same path. I shot a round of clays with my 3gun benelli. It was fun but the gun is definitely not set up for it (21" barrel and all the bells and whistles for 3gun). 3gun is still my priority for now, but sporting clays was a blast. In the future it may become the priority, who knows. I liked sporting clays so much I already wanted a new gun for it. I found a few Browning Citori 725's and almost bought one several times. However, with 3gun being the priority, I was afraid to shoot an O/U for one game and a benelli for the other. I ended up finding a benelli super sport, but it wasn't easy. I ended up buying it in hopes that the skills translate from one benelli to the other better than an O/U and a benelli. I read a post from Patrick Kelly who stated he uses a super sport for clays and feels his scores have gotten better in both games because of the familiarity of the guns. I may still get an O/U down the road, but not until I decide to slow down in the 3gun world (which i don't see happening anytime soon). Just my thoughts on the situation since I was doing the same research a couple weeks ago. Good luck with whichever way you decide to go.

[NMBOpen]

I started to shoot 5-Stand (50 rounds) to improve my ability to hit the aerials and rabbits we see in 3-Gun. Have done Sporting Clays (12-stand, 100 rounds) once so far and will do it more. All with the Benelli m2 I am using for 3-gun. The only change I make is to swap in a 28" bbl in place of the 21". The extra practice does help.

[MikeRush]

Thanks for the feedback! I had read Patrick Kelly's post, and that was the main reason why I tried the SX2 for the course. I have a longer barrel for it, but it is a high rib and I have a hard time shooting high rib guns. I could pick up a light mod for the SX2 and try again, or just shoot the 870. I still haven't decided what I will do- I should check out the 391 as well.

[Zoub]

I also have an 870 I use for hunting dove and quail, my performance on aerial targets tends to be much better with that, and I can cycle the pump reasonably fast for doubles.

What you really need to know is why that happens. Once you do, you can likely adjust on your Winchester to fix the issue as it is probably fit and sight picture related.

Overall for clays you will do better with a longer barrel and IC choke starting out. If both guns have IC, then go with the Semi, even though the barrel is probably shorter then the 870 semi auto will allow you to focus more on technique and follow up shots.

Best thing to do is pattern both guns on paper. See how POI relates to POA and what percentage of your pattern is above and below the POI. Chances are they will not be the same. Uneducated and uninformed guess, you are shooting high with the Winchester compared to the 870.

[Olivers_AR]

Going to try my Benelli M1s90 with longer barrel, hopefully the extended mag tube won't weigh it down.

[JD45]

Shoot the 870. You'll become a better shot on doves.

[TommyD]

I'd say shoot the 870. You'll be such a badass at the SC match once you've had enough time behind it!

[MikeRush]

Sounds like I need to pattern both guns, I hadn't thought that might be my issue- I think I will take the 870 and give it a try next time I go. I have a light mod for the 870, which I think should be about right.

I should add I found another thread related to shooting sporting clays with a 3 gun shotgun, but mostly it referred to taking a short semi and disturbing the locals. I would like to develop myself as a SC shooter, and the longer barrel of the 870 might help me smooth my swing.

Thanks for the input and advice!

+1 on underdog status for shooting the 870, its a beat down express model I paid $175 for.

[TommyD]

+1 on underdog status for shooting the 870, its a beat down express model I paid $175 for.

Oh yeah! I find there to be alot of repetitiveness in the competition world whether it be the gear choice or even the way we move (and for good reason) but...nice to shake things up a bit

[ziebart]

Never shot sporting clays, but have shot plenty of skeet with my 3gun shotgun. It's a 26" SX3 so it's really not that far off from a skeet gun. Last time out I had 2 games of 24/25 my best ever. Then I decided I would shoot everything starting at port arms. Station 8 was a real challenge.

Before I got the SX3 I shot it with a 870 and was normally in the high teens.

[LSnSC]

Sporting Clays with a short barreled shotgun is going to be frustrating. You will be ok on the close in soft shots. Long crossers will eat your lunch. I played with alot of shotguns of all types and finally settled on a Beretta 391 with a 30 inch barrel. I see more 391's than everything else combined on the sporting clays courses. If they accepted a mag tube extension I'll wager they would dominate 3 gun as well. They are ultra reliable soft shooting shotguns.

If you sinply want to improve you shotgun skills for 3 gun stay with your present setup, but know you are handicapping yourself.

If you want to become a good sporting clays shooter get the right tool for the job. Either a longer barrel for your present gun or a dedicated clays gun.

There is nothing wrong with your Wingmaster, the only time it will handicap you is a true pair where you need to shoot fast. You want to be focused on the presentation, not getting a second shell cycled. Its fine for singles and report pairs.

[EkuJustice]

I shoot 2 different guns. My clay target gun is a dedicated clay gun ie k80 and have no issue picking up the 3 gun shotgun. I thinkit is more important in the clays than it is here the more the better the shooter the easier it is to pick up a gun and go.

[wgj3]

I shot a fair amount of skeet and sporting before I got into 3G and USPSA, so I already had the nice O/U with 32" barrels. Ive certainly spent some time on a skeet field with both my mossberg 930 JM and my SX3 with barrels trimmed to 24". I shot my first 25 on a skeet field with my Mossberg 835. Ive also shot with my 590 and did okay, but I felt that the lack of a rib hurt. In skeet, the gun is not nearly as important at "average guy" levels. As mentioned earlier in the thread, longer shots on a sporting course will challenge the shorter guns more. Unless you plan to do it a lot or just want the dedicated gun, all you really need is more practice and maybe a slightly tighter choke constriction in whatever gun you want use the most IMHO.

[wgj3]

Oh, and outshooting $10,000+ Perazzis and Kreighoffs with your $400 pump gun (even less in OP's case) is a priceless feeling.

[MikeRush]

Alright, it sounds like I have some experimentation to do. I ordered another choke for the SX2 and another for the Remington. I am going to bring both next time I go. I would love to figure out how to make the SX2 work, and despite being a 24" barrel it is as long as a lot of 28" double guns. Otherwise it will be the remington for now. I will also check out the Beretta semi autos. A lot of people have recommended them to me for starting clays more seriously.

[Dave Gundry]

I shoot clays with my 3 gun shotty (24" m1), and would love to hear the reasoning behind how longer barrels can help my game. I came from the o/u world, and skeet was my first shooting hobby in my teens. I'll usually average ~23 on the skeet field and high 30's to low 40's on the clays courses. I'd really like to get my clays average solidly into the 40's. I think I've got a pretty good handle on the physics of swinging the gun and how longer barrels add weight further out to hide imperfections in my swing, but that is my fault, not the guns. Pattern and shot velocity should only be affected minimally, if not negligibly, correct? Are longer barrels just a crutch?

[leftnose]

I think I've got a pretty good handle on the physics of swinging the gun and how longer barrels add weight further out to hide imperfections in my swing, but that is my fault, not the guns. Pattern and shot velocity should only be affected minimally, if not negligibly, correct? Are longer barrels just a crutch?

Your first conclusion is partially correct. Long barrels are easier to swing smoothly and consistently. But, I don't care who you are, you will over power a 24" auto and swing it like crazy. It takes real concentration to keep a gun like that swinging smoothly. A heavier gun (longer barrels) takes out that part of the equation so you can concentrate on the target instead of your swing.

You are right that barrel length has no impact on ballistics or pattern, either. Shotgun powders are pretty well burned up in the first 16-18" and choke is what changes the pattern, not barrel length.

However, longer barrels are NOT a crutch and there's more to it than just smoothing out your swing. Sporting Clays is my game. I'm in NSCA Master class (the highest--yay for me ) and I shoot a lot of competition, both on a national and international level. The highest level of shooters only use 30" autos or 32" O/Us. More rarely, you'll see 34" O/Us as well. For those who are truly serious about the game, you just don't see anything else. The longer barrel gives you more awareness of the gun. Yes, the absolute worst thing you can do with a shotgun is look at the barrel while shooting. That's a guaranteed miss. You want all your focus on the bird. Longer barrels help you do this. They have greater presence in your peripheral vision so you will just know where the gun is. There is also a feeling that longer barrels also allow for less perceived lead. I'm not sure what I think about this but there are those who claim that you "see" less lead with longer barrels.

There is, however, a fine balance. Long barrels are heavier and it can get to a point that they are heavy enough that you can't move the gun well enough. Trap and skeet are one thing with birds that require little gun movement (trap) or move on a predetermined path (skeet). With the variety of birds you get in sporting, especially when you factor in pairs, you need to be able to move the gun between targets. If barrels get too heavy, you loose this ability. It's a balance and you have to figure out what works for you. I shot a Perazzi with very light 32" barrels for many years and switched to a Kreighoff with heavy 32" barrels at the beginning of 2011. The heavier barrels work better for me as I tended to overpower the light barrels and whip them all over the place. I needed the extra weight of the Kreighoff to smooth out my swing and it was the gun I used to punch into Master class.

Edited October 18, 2012 by leftnose

[Dave Gundry]

Thanks for the great info! Sounds like replicating the mass/inertia of a heavier gun helps quite a bit, but the visual and pointing aspects are difficult to quantify... I'll just have to go shoot a heavier & longer gun and see if I can pick up the change.

[MikeRush]

Just thought I would update here- I went up to Triple B Clays for my birthday yesterday, and shot trap, skeet and their sporting clays course. I found the shorter SX2 was great for skeet, and I had no problems with the easy shots on clays, but the longer and faster shots just destroyed me. I ended up switching over to the 28 inch 870 and started producing lots of smoked targets. There were some really fast crossers way out there on the "quail" stage and I just dusted them without having to think about lead or anything. The overhead targets (not sure what they are called, but they are thrown from a tower behind me) were likewise crushed with the 870. I couldn't hit them with the SX2.

I always thought that having the 24" barrel and the extension was good enough, I had told myself that the weight was like an O/U, and that long receiver made it the same thing. I think I will stick with using it on steel. It was a real eye opener. On Skeet where you "know" the flight of the clay I made the SX2 work but I found that I wasn't smooth. I can certainly whip it faster but I seemed to be over running the target then trying to ambush, sometimes with success and sometimes without.

Just like I measure changes to my USPSA gun on the timer, I have to say compared to the SX2 I went from 60% to 80% with the 870 on the course I shot. I am thrilled for all the guys who can do it with their 3 gun shotguns, and I can break easy targets well enough with it, but I will be using the 870 for the foreseeable future. I did handle a Beretta A400 Xcel, and it felt magical. Id really like to try shooting some 30 and 32 barreled guns.

Thanks again for all the input! I will keep up the work with the 870 unless the bug bites harder, then I will be having a hard look at the beretta 3 series (although I am somewhat drawn to the Citoris, and they take the same chokes I have for my SX2).

[leftnose]

...I just dusted them without having to think about lead or anything.

Hate to be that guy but you didn't "dust" the targets, you "smoked" them. When you "dust" a target, you just barely hit it with 1-2 pellets so that it doesn't break but dust comes off the target. This is more apparent with biodegradeable targets as they are made of a white material that is very visible when it dusts. Dusted targets aren't counted as kills.

"Smoking" a target is when you hit it so hard there's nothing left but a puff of smoke. So smoke = good, dust = frustrating because you missed it by that much.

I know there's a saying "nothing but dust" but we clay target shooters have our own lingo! But sounds like you had fund and, in the end, that's all that matters.

Edited October 25, 2012 by leftnose

[JMIS]

I shot SC and Skeet today for the first time, what a blast! I'm hoping this will help me for the Rockcastle shotgun match in April. I used my SLP with IC choke.

I shot trap as a young adult 20+ years ago but what a differences between the three. My score in Sporting Clays was 68/100, Skeet was three rds breaking 19, 21, 19. I'm looking forward to going back and trying it again. As for my gun of choice in the future, I'm thinking of buying a Remington Versa Max with 28'' barrel and then adding 24'' barrel for 3gun.

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: I shot 5-stand for the first time ever today and had a great time. It was a little cold 31 degrees but all the people made me feel welcome. They looked at me kinda strange at first with my Zombie green Versa Max Tactical but thought it looked cool-me not so much I was using a skeet choke for everything and pretty much sucked but did get lots of rabbits I think it will be great practice for 3-gun and fun as well. Can't wait till next month. Thanks, Eric

[Jaxshooter]

I agree with Leftnose 100 %. I too am a Sporting Clays shooter. I shoot a 32" barreled Kolar with .740 bore barrels rather than the semi light .750 bore barrels. Due to back problems I will at times shoot an autoloader for the reduced weight. That gun has weight added to the front of the gun in the form of weight under the forend and a weighted magazine tube cap. The weight on the front end of the gun keeps me from whipping it around.