DAA Race Master vs Manny Bragg Futuristic Magnetic

[The_Vigilante]

Can you provide any photos?

[gng4life]

I ordered one of Manny's holsters and have yet to put it on my belt and try it with a gun, but I will say this:

The fit and finish is atrocious. It looks like a 7th grader put it together from scrap parts and forgot to sand anything down. I really can't believe they would send anything out in this condition. If it works great I suppose I can finish it myself, but goodness - what a disappointment.

That's exactly what I thought when I saw one in person. If it works and we get a good range report from the OP and some others, I may break down this winter and get one to try myself but it would have to be some glorious results that are straight from the heavens

[Jonathan Taliani]

The fit and finish is atrocious. It looks like a 7th grader put it together from scrap parts and forgot to sand anything down. I really can't believe they would send anything out in this condition. If it works great I suppose I can finish it myself, but goodness - what a disappointment.

I too was completely taken back by this. In the pictures, I thought it was not a very good looking holster, but that isn't the real issue. In person I think it is better looking (by far) but you can see all of the real problems. Mine had plastic shavings around every cut and fitting. The edges of the plastic cuts, particularly around the top of the holster body (where the rear of the trigger guard sits), are in desperate need of a good sanding. There is a sharp ridge along this entire section. Another issue was raised in the other thread. There are screw threads sticking out all over the place. I've already scratched the heck out of myself. My unit also already has a number of small scratches and dings. Overall, these aspects where a pretty big let down. Like you said, I'm still going to give it a fair shake as a holster, but it is disappointing to know that I will have to do a LOT of cleanup work myself if I keep it (not just for appearance but primarily to keep from getting cut up).

I'll go ahead and add my preliminary review of this holster. This will be updated after I spend a little more time with it. At this point, I have mounted it on a belt and done around 40 minutes of drawing practice with it. This is a free flow of observations and not in any particular order. As always, this is just my opinions and experience, yours may differ.

Pros:

~ Very smooth release/draw (It is similar to the Ghost retention/draw but actually feels more clean and smooth to me)

~ Solid retention (Unlocked - not as secure as DAA RM in my opinion but better than the others, Locked - as secure as any other)

~ Loose trigger guard tolerances (This is will in both pro and con - the pro is that it allows much greater variance in grips: custom cuts, metal grips, STI/SVI, etc)

~ Great locking system (I actually sligthly prefer the "trigger" over the DAA RM. It is wide and smooth making it very easy to slide your finger across. I also like having 3 positions - Up/Unlocked, Down/Locked but out of the way and can't be snagged, Half-way/Locked but ready for relese by swiping your middle finger like the DAA)

~ Extremely easy to reholster (Can go straight down, front to back/down, etc. The magnets help to suck it back into place)

~ More draw flexibility than the DAA RM (Same as reholstering, it is more forgiving of different strokes)

~ Magnets really are just plain neat!

Cons:

~ FIT AND FINISH (as noted above - cosmetic and function)

~ Loose trigger guard tolerances (The gun has a TON of play - left to right and muzzle front to back. I can completely wobble the pistol left/right more than any other holster I've ever tried. The muzzle front/back is better and more secure than the Ghost because it is assisted by the magnets, otherwise the travel is about the same as the Ghost)

~ Lower magnet doesn't contact my dustcover which reduces its function (Not sure if this is by design or an issue with mine but it would be nice to have a bit more hold)

~ Almost certainly will wear the dustcover (Even after the minor amount of draw practice, I can already see rub marks on my STI LDC. Again, this might just be an issue with mine)

~ Holster/Belt attachment offset (This is turning out to be a big con for me. I am pretty thin through my abdominal area which leaves my hip bones without a lot of padding. Normally this is not an issue as I just adjust the belt attachment to right behind my Iliac Crest [upper front of the hip bone - the part that sticks out]. Unfortunately for me, this places the holster much farther back than I like due to the offset. Going from Diehli's idea, I switched the direction of the offset [instead of the holster body sitting rear of the belt attachment, it now sits in front]. This largely eliminated this issue but not puts the holster closer to all of the hangers/attachments and their sharp protrusions. This would not likely be an issue for those with more cushioning or who prefer a different holster location)

~ Even more expensive than the already not cheap DAA RM if you add the $25 thigh pad (Don't get me wrong, I have zero issue paying for quality)

I'm sure I'm forgetting a lot of variables. If you have any specific questions, please don't hesitate to ask.

At this point, I have very mixed feelings. There are parts about this holster that I like a lot, but then there are things that I'm not sure I'll be able to get past. I'm already left wishing I could take aspects of this holster and my Race Master and put them together.

[Jonathan Taliani]

Can you provide any photos?

Do you have anything specific you are looking for? There are several pics and a video in the other thread, though I'd be happy to take some more if you'd like.

[The_Vigilante]

Interested in the "cons" you point out as far as finish.

[BillChunn]

Do you have anything specific you are looking for?

Jonathan,

Can you get some pictures of these areas:

~There are screw threads sticking out all over the place. I've already scratched the heck out of myself.

~ Loose trigger guard tolerances (The gun has a TON of play - left to right and muzzle front to back. I can completely wobble the pistol left/right more than any other holster I've ever tried.)

~ Lower magnet doesn't contact my dustcover which reduces its function (Not sure if this is by design or an issue with mine but it would be nice to have a bit more hold)

~ Almost certainly will wear the dustcover (Even after the minor amount of draw practice, I can already see rub marks on my STI LDC. Again, this might just be an issue with mine)

~ Holster/Belt attachment offset. Going from Diehli's idea, I switched the direction of the offset.

Thanks

[Unregistered]

That is very disappointing to hear about the finish...

I ordered the holster too and am hoping it works out better than the DAA RM. The RM is a beautifully finished holster and it sounds like I may have to stick with it after all... I'm a little OCD when it comes to how something looks and feels.

Any pictures of the rough finish and the screws?

[Jonathan Taliani]

Good morning all!

I did my best to try and capture all of the requested pics. They are not the highest quality as my camera does not do well without a lot of light and it was completely overcast yesterday. Also, some of the areas are difficult to capture in pics. I'll have to split this into 2 posts.

This first pic illustrates the top of the trigger guard area. You can see a line going around the perimeter from the cut. You can't tell from the pic, but this is pretty pronounced and quite sharp:

The next pic shows a very bad example of the plastic shavings I referred to. If you look in the lettering you can see a small amount of what's left in there. This was attached to every cut and loosely stuck in all of the fitting/hardware:

In these pics you can see some of the many threads that stick out and also see how cramped it gets to meet the 2" requirement if you reverse the offset (my doing, not theirs, but I needed to as discussed above):

This pic was very hard to capture well, but it tries to show the rub marks on the dustcover:

This is the amount of forward travel the holster will allow with the gun completely seated (as mentioned, the magnet does help to keep it from coming forward like the Ghost):

Edited October 3, 2012 by Jonathan Taliani

[Jonathan Taliani]

Another view of the hardware/attachments:

I should have put red paper under this pic so it was easier to see, but this shows the gap between the gun and front magnetic. The gun is as far down as it will go:

These next two try to illustrate the amount of left/right play within the holster. The gun is fully seated in both, this is just pushing it first all the way to the right and then all the way to the left. You can see the trigger in the second pic, but again, this is not lifted out at all:

This shows the reversed offset that I mentioned, basically just turning the brackets over to have the holster in front instead of behind:

Sorry these aren't better quality. Hopefully it will still provide a bit more clarification. Since the highlighted/requested pics were of the cons (understandly so) I want to emphasis that I am not trying to rip this holster apart. Overall, I think it seems like a very nice holster, but I wanted to try and give an unbias review of the pros and cons.

Edited October 3, 2012 by Jonathan Taliani

[BillChunn]

Great write up and the pictures demonstrate what you were talking about very well. Thanks Jonathan.

[gng4life]

Thanks brother...That's awesome so far...have you decided if you will keep it or on to something else? Do you feel the Pros outweigh the Cons? Thanks

[Jonathan Taliani]

Thanks brother...That's awesome so far...have you decided if you will keep it or on to something else? Do you feel the Pros outweigh the Cons? Thanks

I'm still torn. I plan to make a final decision tonight. I didn't get to play around with it at all last night. For me, the con presently weighing most heavily is the adjustability due to the offset. The screws and other sharp items, while disappointing, can be fairly easily remedied. If I do decide not to keep it, I'm going back to the Race Master. I'll let you know what route I decide to go.

[norbs007]

Good review and write-up. Thanks JT!

[SLM]

Hey Jonathan, I'm waiting for a left handed version to come but did get to play with a right handed one. Anyway I agree the machining is rough, little fuzzy plastic things everywhere. If you haven't, take an old toothbrush and go over it. I keep a couple around for gun cleaning anyway. The plastic fuzz will come right off.

In my opinion the screws that mount the holster coming from the inside to the outside is a vast improvement over the Ghost. You can easily mount it to any thickness belt then easily trim the extra screw. The screws in the Ghost going from outside in aren't near as easy to work on and also have to be trimmed or they'll ruin your shirts. These are going to be much easier to cut to the required length.

The lock is, again IMO, an improvement over the Ghost, at least for drawing. The ball coming up/out when you draw gets it completely clear of the trigger guard unlike the Ghost where you have to draw "through" the ball which always causes a bit of a hitch, at least with my steel SV grip. Again, I don't have mine on my belt but it's very noticeably smoother than the Ghost.

I'm interested in the "ton of play" you mentioned. I'm looking forward to comparing that to my Ghost. There does seem to be more right/left rocking than the Ghost but much less muzzle up/down and the magnets seem to almost eliminate that.

Dust cover wear is one of my concerns too. Maybe your bottom magnet not touching is the way it's supposed to be?

[diehli]

Great write up, Jonathan.

If you're looking for more adjustability than the RM, but less than the USA, check out the Racer. A write-up from you on the three could be a Front Sight article.

[Jonathan Taliani]

Hey Jonathan, I'm waiting for a left handed version to come but did get to play with a right handed one. Anyway I agree the machining is rough, little fuzzy plastic things everywhere. If you haven't, take an old toothbrush and go over it. I keep a couple around for gun cleaning anyway. The plastic fuzz will come right off.

Thanks for the tip. I was able to get the majority of it cleaned up with just a dry patch and rubbing it. That's why it was tougher to accomodate that pic request. I'm not sure why they don't clean it off before assembly. This was one of the lesser issues, but for the price of the holster, I would anticipate it would already be done. Definitely not a deal breaker though.

In my opinion the screws that mount the holster coming from the inside to the outside is a vast improvement over the Ghost. You can easily mount it to any thickness belt then easily trim the extra screw. The screws in the Ghost going from outside in aren't near as easy to work on and also have to be trimmed or they'll ruin your shirts. These are going to be much easier to cut to the required length.

I agree that I too would prefer to have this option over the Ghost, but I would prefer even more just to have the DAA belt attachment. No issue with screw protrusion and the inner/outer belt gets a much more secure hold with the skinnier thickness metal uprights.

The lock is, again IMO, an improvement over the Ghost, at least for drawing. The ball coming up/out when you draw gets it completely clear of the trigger guard unlike the Ghost where you have to draw "through" the ball which always causes a bit of a hitch, at least with my steel SV grip. Again, I don't have mine on my belt but it's very noticeably smoother than the Ghost.

I couldn't agree more all the way around on the trigger. This is IMO one of the best parts of the holster. I do not care for the Ghost trigger/locking system at all. I like the DAA lock, but prefer the 3 position settings on this holster. I think you are also correct that the up and out motion of the ball is probably what caused me to perceive the draw as smoother than the Ghost. It really is kind of a hybrid between the Ghost and DAA. The ball of the Ghost with the motion of the DAA.

I'm interested in the "ton of play" you mentioned. I'm looking forward to comparing that to my Ghost. There does seem to be more right/left rocking than the Ghost but much less muzzle up/down and the magnets seem to almost eliminate that.

Granted, I'm going from a sample of one with each of these holsters, so there is the possibility of holster machining or grip variance. That being said, I have never experienced this kind of left/right play. If anything, my aluminum grip is slightly wide (it hangs up in the Ghost holster) but I can still fully rock it left/right. Fortunately, the magnets seem to help in this area too. It holds it a little more snugly so I don't perceive the rocking when I am moving (just around the house) or when I draw. The magnets absolutely help with the front/back over the Ghost. That was the biggest turn-off/deal breaker with the Ghost for me though.

Dust cover wear is one of my concerns too. Maybe your bottom magnet not touching is the way it's supposed to be?

It's not the end of the world as my competition guns will inevitably get wear anyways, but why accelerate it if not necessary. I'm not sure on that one. Absent the wear aspects, I would prefer that the bottom magnet did contact as there is a noticeable difference in hold. It still has magnetic pull but not as pronounced as the top one. I think part of the issue may be the free rolling of my top magnet. It has more resistance in spinning than the bottom magnet. If I decide to keep it, I'm going to disassemble to see if there is a burr or possibly plastic shaving obstruction. I'll probably throw some lube in there too.

Replies in green within quote.

Thanks for all the feedback everyone. I hope that I'm helping those on the fence make a decision without unjustly swaying them one way or another.

Edited October 3, 2012 by Jonathan Taliani

[SLM]

Hey Jonathan, I was bored at work today and started rummaging around and discovered that a hacksaw blade with the teeth ground / filed off would be a perfect replacement for the aluminum mounting rods. It's almost the exact same width, very thin, strong and who doesn't have an old dull hacksaw blade lying around!

And if you really want to play I think you could take the three screws out that have the spacers on them that hold the two sides of the holster together, shave the spacers a bit and reassemble to eliminate the side to side wobble. Full custom fit.

[Jonathan Taliani]

Hey Jonathan, I was bored at work today and started rummaging around and discovered that a hacksaw blade with the teeth ground / filed off would be a perfect replacement for the aluminum mounting rods. It's almost the exact same width, very thin, strong and who doesn't have an old dull hacksaw blade lying around!

I'm not a particularly handy guy, but when you get yours, I'd love to see the results if you decide to try it out.

And if you really want to play I think you could take the three screws out that have the spacers on them that hold the two sides of the holster together, shave the spacers a bit and reassemble to eliminate the side to side wobble. Full custom fit.

That is a great idea, but there is a bit more involved than just shaving the spacers. One definite issue is the locking trigger. It fits snugly into the gap as is, so it would have to be shaved down too. The other issue is the magnetic rollers. They have a little bit of wiggle room but not much. I think this could be done, but would likely require swapping the rollers to make enough of a difference.

[Jonathan Taliani]

Alright, slow update but I made a decision. I had Manny's holster boxed up and ready to ship back. I didn't end up making it to the Post Office in time, so the holster came back home with me. That night, after doing a bit of dry firing with my Race Master, I found myself missing the EXTREMELY smooth draw from Manny's holster (even though the Race Master felt better positioned and less cluttered to me). Since I still had the holster, I cracked the box back open and decided to start from square one. I undid all of the attachment settings on Manny's holster and started playing around with every possible adjustment. After a while, I was able to find a sweet spot this time. The holster position felt great and the draw was as smooth as ever. In the end, I decided that I'm keeping Manny's holster after all.

While it is not without its own set of cons, Manny's holster also has many pros. Only time will tell which I truly prefer, but I am confident in saying that either the Race Master or Manny's Futuristic Magnetic will get the job done nicely.

[Unregistered]

Jonathan, would you be able to post a picture of the thigh pad?

Mine digs into my leg slightly... wish I ordered the thigh pad too, as it was a hassle to get the holster in. (Manny doesn't ship to Canada)

Cheers!

[Neomet]

Never mind.... I just saw the pics of reversing the holster so it sits forward instead of rearward. This solves one of my main complaints. Nice post Jonathan!

Edited October 11, 2012 by Neomet

[Jonathan Taliani]

Never mind.... I just saw the pics of reversing the holster so it sits forward instead of rearward. This solves one of my main complaints. Nice post Jonathan!

Good stuff! I read your original message from my email and was just getting ready to reply to suggest trying that. I still prefer the straight drop of the DAA (and overall cleanness of the mount) but this solution with some adjustment tweaking seemed to work nicely for me.

[Jonathan Taliani]

Jonathan, would you be able to post a picture of the thigh pad?

Mine digs into my leg slightly... wish I ordered the thigh pad too, as it was a hassle to get the holster in. (Manny doesn't ship to Canada)

Cheers!

I haven't really played around with the thigh pad too much. I experimented with turning the mount in both directions and reversed the pad positioning (the screws that attach the pad to the bracket are not centered). I didn't really notice the holster digging into my leg without the pad, but this is really dependent on where you position it and body type. With the way it hung down, I could see it potentially rubbing a sore spot after a long match though. Since I had the pad anyways, I went ahead and threw it on. It shoves the holster out a bit more (on me), so you may need to slightly readjust your setting. This results from the pad now resting on my leg. I notice the holster more with the pad than without, but I'm hoping that the larger footprint will prevent it from making a sore spot. Here are a couple pics that show the pad:

It's really quite a basic and straight forward piece. The bracket for the pad looks like the lower bracket of the holster. The pad comes with longer screws that replace the screws for the lower holster bracket. You then just sandwich them together. I didn't see it listed on Manny's website, but the pad runs $25 (at least at my time of purchase).

Hope the pics help. If you had something different in mind, just let me know.

[Unregistered]

Thanks Jonathan!

[Unregistered]

Alright...

So my average draw and dry fire at 15yd (on a classic mini) is 1.39 seconds with the DAA Racer Master.

With the Manny Bragg? 1.21.

And qualitatively, it feels MUCH slicker. It works well with my draw... this is a very nice holster.

I am using a Caspian model for my Caspian open gun, and there is hardly any side-to-side movement.