Sarge Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 Box A is a shooting area. Shooting outside the box will be a procedural. Moving forward of the box would be a significant advantage resulting in a per shot penalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Santiago Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 Doesn't say that in the WSB Kevin. It's just a start position. Compared to CM-0902 which also starts in a box, the wsb says, "while remaining in the shooting area". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 A box is nothing more than 4 short fault lines joined together. If you are not in the box you are not in the shooting area Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Santiago Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 Always? There are many stages where the start box is not part of the shooting area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 Right. And the wsb will state the box is not part of the shooting area in those cases. Shooting areas have to be defined in some way and if you're not in it you are out of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted April 24, 2013 Author Share Posted April 24, 2013 I agree with Paul. A start box is not a shooting area. [AD5 hat on] I'll bring this wording up with management. [/AD5 hat] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 (edited) I agree with Paul. A start box is not a shooting area. [AD5 hat on] I'll bring this wording up with management. [/AD5 hat] if that's the case we won't shoot it this weekend. I won't allow anybody to run up and shoot targets at PBR Edited April 24, 2013 by Sarge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 It must be an oversight in the WSB... but as it's written I guess you can't 'make' people stay in the box. Interesting. I wonder if more classifiers need the same clarification.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 And since your AD hat is on shouldn't it be suspended until it's resolved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 It must be an oversight in the WSB... but as it's written I guess you can't 'make' people stay in the box. Interesting. I wonder if more classifiers need the same clarification.. why can't you make somebody stay inside the box? There is no shooting area then. All this time that classifier has been shot from the box. When you are standing in that box the only fault lines on the course of fire are surrounding you and you have to be inside fault lines to shoot targets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Santiago Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 Nothing in the rules says you must have fault lines or a defined shooting area. 2.2.1 says competitor movements MAY be restricted with fault lines, barriers.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 Ugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 It must be an oversight in the WSB... but as it's written I guess you can't 'make' people stay in the box. Interesting. I wonder if more classifiers need the same clarification.. Many others are worded the same way but I don't think they need clarification. They have been shot this way for years. I think we all know the intent of the stage procedures.I'm not changing anything for this weekend as some of the others I am shooting are worded the same way. I plan to shoot them as they have always been shot and apply penalties as needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted April 24, 2013 Author Share Posted April 24, 2013 think we all know the intent ... ... and apply penalties as needed. A few Match Directors back, at your club, I intentionally step outside a barricade box to shoot...so that the Match Director would "get" that we don't penalize for "intent". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcs Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 1.1.5.2 Standard Exercises and Classifiers may include mandatory reloads and may dictate a shooting position, location or stance It ain't "intent". Shooting position, location or stance Defined in the Start Procedure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 think we all know the intent ... ... and apply penalties as needed. A few Match Directors back, at your club, I intentionally step outside a barricade box to shoot...so that the Match Director would "get" that we don't penalize for "intent". Then I make it a forbidden action to shoot from outside the box right?I can't believe you think it is OK to charge targets on a classifier. This thread alone is nearly 10 years old and everybody has shot it as intended. For clarification , you don't think the intent of this classifier is to shoot from within the box? I just wasted keyboard strokes to email Amidon for an opinion. Just insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 think we all know the intent ... ... and apply penalties as needed. A few Match Directors back, at your club, I intentionally step outside a barricade box to shoot Was it a classifier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted April 24, 2013 Author Share Posted April 24, 2013 Then I make it a forbidden action to shoot from outside the box right? I can't believe you think it is OK to charge targets on a classifier. I never said that. I am saying that we don't get to make up penalties (or FA's) as we see fit. If you think the stage is wrong, don't run it. (I can only get it addressed so fast, after it comes to my attention.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Santiago Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 1.1.5.2 Standard Exercises and Classifiers may include mandatory reloads and may dictate a shooting position, location or stance It ain't "intent". Shooting position, location or stance Defined in the Start Procedure. You are correct Larry BUT, the wsb in this case only defines the start position, not the shooting position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcs Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 1.2.2.2 “Classifiers” – Courses of fire published by USPSA, which are available to competitors seeking a National classification. Classifiers must be set-up in accordance with these rules and be conducted strictly in accordance with the notes and diagrams accompanying them. Results must be submitted to the publishing entity in the format required (with the applicable fees, if any), in order to be recognized. I think the "diagram" also supports shooting area as the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Santiago Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 disagree Larry, it supports nothing but a box as the start position. nothing in there that says something like "from box a, engage...". as has been said on the forum an infinite number of times, it's freestyle, if you want it shot a certain way, put it in the wsb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 Then I make it a forbidden action to shoot from outside the box right? I can't believe you think it is OK to charge targets on a classifier. I never said that. I am saying that we don't get to make up penalties (or FA's) as we see fit. If you think the stage is wrong, don't run it. (I can only get it addressed so fast, after it comes to my attention.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 Then I make it a forbidden action to shoot from outside the box right? I can't believe you think it is OK to charge targets on a classifier. I never said that. I am saying that we don't get to make up penalties (or FA's) as we see fit. If you think the stage is wrong, don't run it. (I can only get it addressed so fast, after it comes to my attention.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
de03x7 Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 This idea came up last summer. While taking the RO class the stage that was used for the class had a barricade with a box and the WSB said start in box and engage T1-T2 from left side of barricade and T3-T4 from right side. It just happened that my wife was the RO and I was the shooter. I made it a point to have my foot touching the ground outside the box for three of the four shots but had it up for one just to mess with her. She saw it and called three procedurals and the instructor then asked her why she called them. He then pointed out that the WSB was satisfied because the shots were made from the correct side and it didn't say anything about shooting from the box. He said that if the WSB did not prohibit shooting outside the box that it was ok to do so. A couple months later this classifier comes up and again it says nothing about shooting from the box. I will agree that the intent is to shoot from the box but if we are going to score on intent I intend to shoot all alphas in about a second and a half. Sarge, for what it's worth this classifier bumped me from C to B so I am one of the support class shooters also and someone may have a different result. I did shoot it from the box. I will say that the attempt to game the stage made me set up one of the sets of targets and try shooting it from the box, while moving in during the reload and taking the first shot on each while walking in. Staying in the box with a good stance won every time and the extra practice sure paid off for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Santiago Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 (edited) 1.1.5.2 Standard Exercises and Classifiers may include mandatory reloads and may dictate a shooting position, location or stance It ain't "intent". Shooting position, location or stance Defined in the Start Procedure. You are correct Larry BUT, the wsb in this case only defines the start position, not the shooting position. Edited April 25, 2013 by Paul Santiago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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