ICORE new-be

[stinsonbeach]

I'm about to embark into the world of ICORE & need the "perfect formula" for a .45 cal 625 & .38/.357cal 627.

Coming from IPSC & needing a 165 PF & going to a 120 PF leaves me a bit bewildered.

I also need to know - because I can't find it in the rules - what class is a 6 shot 625 w/ moonclips fall into? Some friends give me differing opinions.

Thanks,

-jb

Edited September 12, 2012 by stinsonbeach

[Bubber]

I'm about to embark into the world of ICORE & need the "perfect formula" for a .45 cal 625 & .38/.357cal 627.

Coming from IPSC & needing a 165 PF & going to a 120 PF leaves me a bit bewildered.

I also need to know - because I can't find it in the rules - what class is a 6 shot 625 w/ moonclips fall into? Some friends give me differing opinions.

Thanks,

-jb

Welcome to the ICORE realm. If your 625 is stock (no ports or optics) it falls into Limited Class. As for loads, when speaking with No 343 the other day he came to the realization shooting minor has allowed him to concentrate on a accurate load instead of going for Powerfactor. My loads are at 130ish because they are accurate at longer ranges. Load discussion get shoved into the reloading forum along with the semi's and get harder to find. good luck with your endevours. later rdd

[stinsonbeach]

I'm about to embark into the world of ICORE & need the "perfect formula" for a .45 cal 625 & .38/.357cal 627.

Coming from IPSC & needing a 165 PF & going to a 120 PF leaves me a bit bewildered.

I also need to know - because I can't find it in the rules - what class is a 6 shot 625 w/ moonclips fall into? Some friends give me differing opinions.

Thanks,

-jb

Welcome to the ICORE realm. If your 625 is stock (no ports or optics) it falls into Limited Class. As for loads, when speaking with No 343 the other day he came to the realization shooting minor has allowed him to concentrate on a accurate load instead of going for Powerfactor. My loads are at 130ish because they are accurate at longer ranges. Load discussion get shoved into the reloading forum along with the semi's and get harder to find. good luck with your endevours. later rdd

Thanks for the info. Much appreciated...but I remember reading that you have to use speed-loaders NOT moon-clips for 6 rd revolvers. Again it may have been my buddies "infinite wisdom"!

"minor"??? How do you get to minor w/ a 120 PF & still get it out of the gun?! My plan was to shoot about what you do - 130. - but how far down can you go?

Again, thanks for the info. I haven't even shot a single match yet...but soon.

-jb

[seanc]

I'm about to embark into the world of ICORE & need the "perfect formula" for a .45 cal 625 & .38/.357cal 627.

Coming from IPSC & needing a 165 PF & going to a 120 PF leaves me a bit bewildered.

I also need to know - because I can't find it in the rules - what class is a 6 shot 625 w/ moonclips fall into? Some friends give me differing opinions.

Thanks,

-jb

Welcome to the ICORE realm. If your 625 is stock (no ports or optics) it falls into Limited Class. As for loads, when speaking with No 343 the other day he came to the realization shooting minor has allowed him to concentrate on a accurate load instead of going for Powerfactor. My loads are at 130ish because they are accurate at longer ranges. Load discussion get shoved into the reloading forum along with the semi's and get harder to find. good luck with your endevours. later rdd

Thanks for the info. Much appreciated...but I remember reading that you have to use speed-loaders NOT moon-clips for 6 rd revolvers. Again it may have been my buddies "infinite wisdom"!

"minor"??? How do you get to minor w/ a 120 PF & still get it out of the gun?! My plan was to shoot about what you do - 130. - but how far down can you go?

Again, thanks for the info. I haven't even shot a single match yet...but soon.

-jb

Not quite. The division distinction between limited and classic is the loading device, not other way around. A 625 with moonclips puts you in limited division. A 625 with auto-rim brass and some crazy speedloader(if such a thing exists) would allow you to shoot it in classic.

6. A revolver must compete in the Open Division if it has one or more of the following modifications:

A. Compensating, venting, or metering ports of any kind.

B. An optical sight including telescopic and red dot sights.

C. A rib sight, a front sight that extends beyond the muzzle, or a rear sight that extends beyond or behind a factory manufactured sight's location.

D. Any barrel other than an unaltered factory barrel or an unaltered factory replacement barrel made by the revolver's manufacturer. Alterations to the barrel other than what is required to safely install the barrel are not permitted in Limited Division.

E. An underlug, barrel weight, grip weight, or any other modification designed to increase the weight of the revolver.

7. Any revolver not competing in Open Division may compete in Limited Division or Classic Division subject to Rule 5.8 and 5.9.

8. A Classic Division revolver is a Limited Division revolver that has the following additional requirements:

A. Cylinder with only 6 chambers.

B. Must only use speed loaders to reload. Moon-clips are prohibited.

[Matt Griffin]

120 isn't really doable with a .45, I tried using some 150gr. cowboy bullets and they're still floating down range like albatrosses. I'd suggest 185gr bullets at 750 fps, it's 138pf but if you're used to USPSA it feels like nothing at all.

[Bubber]

/quote]

......

"minor"??? How do you get to minor w/ a 120 PF & still get it out of the gun?! My plan was to shoot about what you do - 130. - but how far down can you go?

.... -jb

HOw low can you go??? The expert on this would be No. 343. (Interesting story at a ICORE match) I have a bit of limited data on the 45 using Vit N320, Clays, and Solo. What powder do you have on hand?

[GOF]

jb

Where to you plan on shooting ICORE in NE FL? I live near Palatka, and know of matches down in New Symrna and Orlando. If you know of another, please let me know. When I heal up from surgery in another few weeks I will be hitting ICORE as hard as I can.

And, the suggestion of a 185 .45 ACP at about 750 fps is an excellent one. You can cut the PF as low as you want, but you still need a reliable and accurate load. This one should do it for you with not more than 140 PF recoil, which is nothing from a 625.

[stinsonbeach]

I'm about to embark into the world of ICORE & need the "perfect formula" for a .45 cal 625 & .38/.357cal 627.

Coming from IPSC & needing a 165 PF & going to a 120 PF leaves me a bit bewildered.

I also need to know - because I can't find it in the rules - what class is a 6 shot 625 w/ moonclips fall into? Some friends give me differing opinions.

Thanks,

-jb

Welcome to the ICORE realm. If your 625 is stock (no ports or optics) it falls into Limited Class. As for loads, when speaking with No 343 the other day he came to the realization shooting minor has allowed him to concentrate on a accurate load instead of going for Powerfactor. My loads are at 130ish because they are accurate at longer ranges. Load discussion get shoved into the reloading forum along with the semi's and get harder to find. good luck with your endevours. later rdd

Thanks for the info. Much appreciated...but I remember reading that you have to use speed-loaders NOT moon-clips for 6 rd revolvers. Again it may have been my buddies "infinite wisdom"!

"minor"??? How do you get to minor w/ a 120 PF & still get it out of the gun?! My plan was to shoot about what you do - 130. - but how far down can you go?

Again, thanks for the info. I haven't even shot a single match yet...but soon.

-jb

Not quite. The division distinction between limited and classic is the loading device, not other way around. A 625 with moonclips puts you in limited division. A 625 with auto-rim brass and some crazy speedloader(if such a thing exists) would allow you to shoot it in classic.

6. A revolver must compete in the Open Division if it has one or more of the following modifications:

A. Compensating, venting, or metering ports of any kind.

B. An optical sight including telescopic and red dot sights.

C. A rib sight, a front sight that extends beyond the muzzle, or a rear sight that extends beyond or behind a factory manufactured sight's location.

D. Any barrel other than an unaltered factory barrel or an unaltered factory replacement barrel made by the revolver's manufacturer. Alterations to the barrel other than what is required to safely install the barrel are not permitted in Limited Division.

E. An underlug, barrel weight, grip weight, or any other modification designed to increase the weight of the revolver.

7. Any revolver not competing in Open Division may compete in Limited Division or Classic Division subject to Rule 5.8 and 5.9.

8. A Classic Division revolver is a Limited Division revolver that has the following additional requirements:

A. Cylinder with only 6 chambers.

B. Must only use speed loaders to reload. Moon-clips are prohibited.

So than I can shoot the 625 w/ moon-clips in Limited.

Thank you, that cleared that up

-jb

ps I have another question - I just got 625 back & I'm getting light strikes. I griped to the guy who did the work & he told me I have to seat the primers DEEP!

Is that true? ...my initial take was the trigger job was not right.

Someone set me straight.

[stinsonbeach]

jb

Where to you plan on shooting ICORE in NE FL? I live near Palatka, and know of matches down in New Symrna and Orlando. If you know of another, please let me know. When I heal up from surgery in another few weeks I will be hitting ICORE as hard as I can.

And, the suggestion of a 185 .45 ACP at about 750 fps is an excellent one. You can cut the PF as low as you want, but you still need a reliable and accurate load. This one should do it for you with not more than 140 PF recoil, which is nothing from a 625.

Thanks for the info.

On the 3rd Sat - this weekend in fact - Vallusia has started shooting ICORE...I'm trying to remember what exit off 95...I think it's 243, then right on 44 down about 6 miles on the right. I shot their .22 match last Sunday & it was the first time I was there. Nice range. Nicer folks. Very well worth the drive. I'd be shooting ICORE but as you've seen having problems w/ the gun. Don't want to shoot the 627 so I'll tinker w/ the 625 till I get it right. ...& you're right, I was using 230 ball I had loaded for my auto for IPSC w/ a PF of about 170+ & the pulse was less than negligible.

I'll ask you too: I had many "no-bangs" & my friend - who's given me some bad info in the past (see: above) - told me the primers need to be seated DEEP! Any comment?

See you at SAPSA / FOP? Let me know who you are.

Edited September 12, 2012 by stinsonbeach

[stinsonbeach]

/quote]

......

"minor"??? How do you get to minor w/ a 120 PF & still get it out of the gun?! My plan was to shoot about what you do - 130. - but how far down can you go?

.... -jb

HOw low can you go??? The expert on this would be No. 343. (Interesting story at a ICORE match) I have a bit of limited data on the 45 using Vit N320, Clays, and Solo. What powder do you have on hand?

320 is damn near impossible to get & I use Clay's for all my .45's.

I was shooting 230 ball w/ 4.1 Clays for a PF of 170+ for my auto & the 625 handled it easily. I can't imagine how soft it'll shoot at 125!!!

All data appreciated.

-jb

[seanc]

I'm about to embark into the world of ICORE & need the "perfect formula" for a .45 cal 625 & .38/.357cal 627.

Coming from IPSC & needing a 165 PF & going to a 120 PF leaves me a bit bewildered.

I also need to know - because I can't find it in the rules - what class is a 6 shot 625 w/ moonclips fall into? Some friends give me differing opinions.

Thanks,

-jb

Welcome to the ICORE realm. If your 625 is stock (no ports or optics) it falls into Limited Class. As for loads, when speaking with No 343 the other day he came to the realization shooting minor has allowed him to concentrate on a accurate load instead of going for Powerfactor. My loads are at 130ish because they are accurate at longer ranges. Load discussion get shoved into the reloading forum along with the semi's and get harder to find. good luck with your endevours. later rdd

Thanks for the info. Much appreciated...but I remember reading that you have to use speed-loaders NOT moon-clips for 6 rd revolvers. Again it may have been my buddies "infinite wisdom"!

"minor"??? How do you get to minor w/ a 120 PF & still get it out of the gun?! My plan was to shoot about what you do - 130. - but how far down can you go?

Again, thanks for the info. I haven't even shot a single match yet...but soon.

-jb

Not quite. The division distinction between limited and classic is the loading device, not other way around. A 625 with moonclips puts you in limited division. A 625 with auto-rim brass and some crazy speedloader(if such a thing exists) would allow you to shoot it in classic.

6. A revolver must compete in the Open Division if it has one or more of the following modifications:

A. Compensating, venting, or metering ports of any kind.

B. An optical sight including telescopic and red dot sights.

C. A rib sight, a front sight that extends beyond the muzzle, or a rear sight that extends beyond or behind a factory manufactured sight's location.

D. Any barrel other than an unaltered factory barrel or an unaltered factory replacement barrel made by the revolver's manufacturer. Alterations to the barrel other than what is required to safely install the barrel are not permitted in Limited Division.

E. An underlug, barrel weight, grip weight, or any other modification designed to increase the weight of the revolver.

7. Any revolver not competing in Open Division may compete in Limited Division or Classic Division subject to Rule 5.8 and 5.9.

8. A Classic Division revolver is a Limited Division revolver that has the following additional requirements:

A. Cylinder with only 6 chambers.

B. Must only use speed loaders to reload. Moon-clips are prohibited.

So than I can shoot the 625 w/ moon-clips in Limited.

Thank you, that cleared that up

-jb

ps I have another question - I just got 625 back & I'm getting light strikes. I griped to the guy who did the work & he told me I have to seat the primers DEEP!

Is that true? ...my initial take was the trigger job was not right.

Someone set me straight.

Federal primers. They do not need to be crushed, but they should be fully seated in the pocket.

Smarter people than me will have more data.

All I can tell you is I was using a borrowed 625 that has a 3 lbs 9oz average on 6 pulls with an electronic gauge, it seemed impossible this gun would set off anything. Ammo loaded with Federal primers seated on a dillon 650 with no special tweaks or crushing were 100%.

[GOF]

jb

If you have a real light trigger job the primers need to be Federal and they need to be seated with a crush fit... .006-008 below flush with the case head. I normally run my finger tip over the primed round as I remove it, to feel the seating depth. But, Federals are what you need to use, and you didn't tell us what primers you were using. Winchester can be OK if Federals aren't available, but the other primer makes are pretty hard and may not work with a light action job.

If that doesn't work for you I'll leave it to the 625 experts (I shoot Ruger GP-100s in Minor) to talk about mainspring bending and strain screw tension, or extended firing pins.

BTW... I don't think I'll be making any matches in September, but thanks for the feedback on the Volusia club. I haven't been there and don't know the people. I may see you there in October. I'll be the old blond guy in faded levis, light colored tee-shirt, ballcap, with a 6 inch GP-100 in a Blade tech DOH.

[Jaxshooter]

You will be shooting your 625 with moonclips against 8 shot reveolvers in Limited. It will not really be a big disadvantage if you make all of your shots count the first time. But it sure is nice to have a couple of spare shots on occassion.

Your primers were not seated deep enough. You may want to go with an extended firing pin. The action job on your gun does not have the strain screw backed off or any of the other lame things people try to get away with to lighten a revolver trigger.

[No.343]

I wouldn't bother trying a light load with a 230 gr bullet. I pulled the bullets that were stuck in the target and saved them as a souvenier. I shot the IRC with 168pf ammo because I now know better than to look for a light load with a 230 gr bullet. In ICORE we are faced with some longer shots, so we need an acurate load. If I had a 627 I would definitely shoot it instead of a 625 in ICORE. BTW, I crush my Federal primers to shoot my 625.

[stinsonbeach]

jb

If you have a real light trigger job the primers need to be Federal and they need to be seated with a crush fit... .006-008 below flush with the case head. I normally run my finger tip over the primed round as I remove it, to feel the seating depth. But, Federals are what you need to use, and you didn't tell us what primers you were using. Winchester can be OK if Federals aren't available, but the other primer makes are pretty hard and may not work with a light action job.

*** nope I use Federal "red box" - it's all I use...all I've ever used if I can get them. I figure for the xtra .3 / primer it's worth never having to worry that the FtF is not the cause of the primer...one less thing to think about.

If that doesn't work for you I'll leave it to the 625 experts (I shoot Ruger GP-100s in Minor) to talk about mainspring bending and strain screw tension, or extended firing pins.

*** I just found out - this morning, in fact - that what I probably need is an extended firing pin as I tried some 2x reseated primers (11 out of 35) & 3x reseated primers (zero out of 35) so they were obviously deep enough. My thinking is the xtended FP will do the trick. Will let you know.

BTW... I don't think I'll be making any matches in September, but thanks for the feedback on the Volusia club. I haven't been there and don't know the people.

*** just met the people for the first time a few weeks ago. Great folks.

I may see you there in October. I'll be the old blond guy in faded levis, light colored tee-shirt, ballcap, with a 6 inch GP-100 in a Blade tech DOH.

*** I'll be on the look-out for you & I'll be the old guy in a white t-shirt laughing at myself!!!

[stinsonbeach]

I wouldn't bother trying a light load with a 230 gr bullet. I pulled the bullets that were stuck in the target and saved them as a souvenier. I shot the IRC with 168pf ammo because I now know better than to look for a light load with a 230 gr bullet. In ICORE we are faced with some longer shots, so we need an acurate load. If I had a 627 I would definitely shoot it instead of a 625 in ICORE. BTW, I crush my Federal primers to shoot my 625.

*** looks like I might, in fact, do just that but I bought the 625 specifically for ICORE because that's what I shoot in IPSC, carry, etc., - that & I'm addicted to .45's in any way, shape, or form! ...no idea why except in the real world:

A - down & gone

C - down & probably gone or soon

D - probably down

I haven't figured out what weight bullet I'm going to use but you are right about 230's & there was no appreciable pulse w/ full-power. I am thinking about 185's loaded down & long, but I have lots of experimenting to do AFTER I get my problem resolved.

As for "crush"ing the primers see above.

I think my problem will be fixed w/ an extended FP.

Will let everyone know as soon as I do.

...& thanks for taking the time to help me.

-jb

Edited September 13, 2012 by stinsonbeach

[seanc]

Can someone explain the rationale for an extended firing pin?

Are you saying that because the primers are fully seated that a longer firing pin is required to reach the primer?

[Bones]

If you don't seat your primers on your press, your first hammer strike certainly will.

I don't know what "crushed" means, but seated @ 0.005" below the case head, 100 and 150 Fed primers will go bang all the time (and Win SP most of the time) in all my competition revolvers with both hammer and frame-mounted stock firing pins (67, 19, 66, 627, 686, 25 and 625). They all have DA trigger pulls well below 6lb. I have loaned most of these guns out and no one has ever had issues with them either when the dimensions I stated above were used. I load on a Dillon 550 and a 1050.

Everyone I have known with problems loaded ammunition on a non-Dillon or 650 Dillon press.

3.6 gr Clays or 4.9 gr N320 and a 200 gr RN bullet is about as light a RN load as I could get to shoot reasonable well in my 45 ACP revolvers.

Reseating primers on loaded rounds is the fast track to organ donation.

Craig

Edited September 13, 2012 by Bones

[stinsonbeach]

If you don't seat your primers on your press, your first hammer strike certainly will.

I don't know what "crushed" means, but seated @ 0.005" below the case head, 100 and 150 Fed primers will go bang all the time (and Win SP most of the time) in all my competition revolvers with both hammer and frame-mounted stock firing pins (67, 19, 66, 627, 686, 25 and 625). They all have DA trigger pulls well below 6lb. I have loaned most of these guns out and no one has ever had issues with them either when the dimensions I stated above were used. I load on a Dillon 550 and a 1050.

Everyone I have known with problems loaded ammunition on a non-Dillon or 650 Dillon press.

3.6 gr Clays or 4.9 gr N320 and a 200 gr RN bullet is about as light a RN load as I could get to shoot reasonable well in my 45 ACP revolvers.

*** thanks for the recipe

Reseating primers on loaded rounds is the fast track to organ donation.

*** no - they were hand-primed & had not yet been loaded. I've made lots of learning mistakes thru time but even I know better . . .

-jb

Craig