mr renwick Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 So today I tried tight group for the first time. Thought I had my powder thrower (dillon 550b) set at 4.4gr turns out it was more like 4.6-4.8 and pushing a 180gr lead projectile. My oal was 1.180 which I normally run 1.120. When I fired my first round it blew out the mag, mag release and cracked the frame. It also blackened my hand a bit. It was fired out of my gen 4 Glock 35 with a wolf barrel. After looking at everything I guess with the shorter oal and the powder being more than I thought it over pressurized and blew out. The primer blew out but still had the firing pin dent. The other thought I had was maybe it was a weak case. The bottle says 4.7 is max and their max is normally I bit lower than true max. Thoughts? If you know where i can find a cheap 4th gen frame please let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Glad you still have all your digits. Bum luck on the frame..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cy Soto Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Even though you said that you were shooting bare lead bullets (which btw are horribly smoky with TG anyway), I doubt that a major case failure like the one that split that case and messed your pistol could have been cause by 4.8gr of Titegroup. I will venture to say that this looks to have been caused by a double charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Hello: I think you must have had more than 4.8grains in there or the brass was weak or it fired out of battery. I have shot Tite Group with some Precision 185 grain bullets that had 4.8grains in there. They were 180PF. I was just thinking if you loaded to 1.180"OAL for the Glock it may have been into the rifling in the barrel. I think the longest I could load in my Glock 35 was 1.145" OAL. I would give Glock a call and see what a new frame would cost you. Glad to hear you are alright. Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr renwick Posted September 11, 2012 Author Share Posted September 11, 2012 Sorry that should have been an oal of 1.118. It wasn't a double charge I was watching very carefully and only made 3 rounds to test fire. I didn't think they could fire out of battery. That would make sense though the case looked like when it blew it was partially out due to where the case blow out was. I would think 4.8 would blow it either but a this point it is hard say for sure. Would the oal being .00& short cause that much of a pressure spike? Hello: I think you must have had more than 4.8grains in there or the brass was weak or it fired out of battery. I have shot Tite Group with some Precision 185 grain bullets that had 4.8grains in there. They were 180PF. I was just thinking if you loaded to 1.180"OAL for the Glock it may have been into the rifling in the barrel. I think the longest I could load in my Glock 35 was 1.145" OAL. I would give Glock a call and see what a new frame would cost you. Glad to hear you are alright. Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr renwick Posted September 11, 2012 Author Share Posted September 11, 2012 .007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babaganoosh Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 (edited) I'm going to guess the bullet jammed into the rifling, you probably got setback and with the huge increase in pressure, well you know. Glocks like a short OAL Edit. Unsupported glock chamber might have helped that along. Edited September 11, 2012 by Babaganoosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 More importantly, what in the hell were you doing loading at even near max to begin with? .2 grains below max to start is just not enough. When developing a new load, always quadruple check your throws, and then quadruple check them again. Start low and work up..... Glad you are ok, but wow..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reichebrown Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 I doubt 4.8 grains of tg caused it. I had an oops once and loaded 9mm with 5 grains of tg over 124 plated. The gun was snappy... But did not kaboom. I don't recommend it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 The bottle says 4.7 is max and their max is normally I bit lower than true max. Thoughts? Thought: That is a bad attitude. There is not a secret safety margin under "the true max." What is the headstamp? Early Federal .40 was pretty thin and there is probably a lot of it out there in "once fired" brass and range pickups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Where you using range brass? What weight recoil spring were you using? What weight striker spring were you using? Basically the same thing happened to a friend of mine at Ironman. He was using range brass with 231. The case gave way just like yours --- where the case is unsupported by the feed ramp. Factory barrel. The frame cracked where the trigger guard meets the frame in the front. Magazine blew out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biloxi23 Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Had that happen once with a Glock shooting some older Federal factory hollowpoints. The rounds were old duty ammo from the 90's that had been in my gunroom (inside, climate controlled). The explosion blew out the mag, blew teh base off the mag, I never found the extractor, but I did find the base of the cartridge. It was the old Federal "FC" headstamp. I examined teh remaining ropunds of teh same type I had and deiscovered that some of tehm that had been set back from being previously chambered. I am of the belief thatteh kaboom was a combination of thin/weak FC brass and bullet set back. My new rule was to throw out all Federal FC headstamp brass, and after a duty round is chambered, that roound goes into teh recycle bin for the bullet to be pulled. As a side note, I sent the gun to Glock since it was new. they checked it for hidden damage and replaced all the small parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Things that go boom: - OAL too long for the chamber. Bullet touches rifling. Pressure goes up. - OAL too short. Pressure goes up. - OAL fine, but bullet gets set back in case...OAL ends up too short, pressure goes up. - Double charge (generic term, doesn't have to truly mean x2) - Gun fires out of battery. (go back to stock springs) - Weak brass (yes, some factory brass is weak) - After market barrel that still needs the chamber properly cut, but the owner is unaware of this fact. - ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reshoot Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Things that go boom: - OAL too long for the chamber. Bullet touches rifling. Pressure goes up. - OAL too short. Pressure goes up. - OAL fine, but bullet gets set back in case...OAL ends up too short, pressure goes up. - Double charge (generic term, doesn't have to truly mean x2) - Gun fires out of battery. (go back to stock springs) - Weak brass (yes, some factory brass is weak) - After market barrel that still needs the chamber properly cut, but the owner is unaware of this fact. - ... Yes, it is soooo easy to exceed safe pressures, in 40 caliber guns, with fast powders like Tightgroup. I have never understood why shooters use the stuff?? There are so many excellent (and slower) powders available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlgentlegiant Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 I have not shot lead with TG but I have shot 4.8 loads in a G35 with KKM barrel with no issues BUT I did find TG to be a bit fiddly to get set up the first time. It flows very freely and is small volume (compared to N320) so it requires a lot of checking on the scale when switching from a different powder. A few questions: 1. Did you scale the throws before the first load? 2. Had you used that lead bullet with another powder? 3. If yes to #2 then how did your OAL get changed? 4. 1.118 is a bit short. Heck even 1.120 is a bit short. I load to 1.135. 5. Have you pulled the bullets from any other rounds you loaded in the same batch? If so what was the scaled charge? What did the crimp look like? From what I can see from the posts it looks to me like too many things changed at one time and more checks needed at each step. As I am new to reloading I take care to triple check and only make 1 change at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Things that go boom: - OAL too long for the chamber. Bullet touches rifling. Pressure goes up. - OAL too short. Pressure goes up. - OAL fine, but bullet gets set back in case...OAL ends up too short, pressure goes up. - Double charge (generic term, doesn't have to truly mean x2) - Gun fires out of battery. (go back to stock springs) - Weak brass (yes, some factory brass is weak) - After market barrel that still needs the chamber properly cut, but the owner is unaware of this fact. - ... Yes, it is soooo easy to exceed safe pressures, in 40 caliber guns, with fast powders like Tightgroup. I have never understood why shooters use the stuff?? There are so many excellent (and slower) powders available. It works Its cheap Its accurate It meters well Its easy found I like the feel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cy Soto Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 It works Its cheap Its accurate It meters well Its easy found I like the feel Need we say more?! :Thumbs_Up: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
technetium-99m Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 (edited) I'm a recent TG convert as well. I very much like the powder. The only drawback I have hound is how hot the darn gun can get. Edited September 11, 2012 by technetium-99m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reshoot Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 It works Its cheap Its accurate It meters well Its easy found I like the feel Need we say more?! :Thumbs_Up: Did you guys accidently forget the word safe? Nearly any powder will work, it is cheap because it takes so little of it, accurate is relative, "my" powder meters well, "my" powder is easier to find and feel is (again) relative . . . "he likes the feel of 165 grain bullets, "she" like the feel of 180 grain bullets. Here's something for everyone to think about: I searched the Brian Enos archives using only the word kaboom. Now, that search turned up more than just guns (or bullets) blowing up, like primers going kaboom in a press and so on. But, between 2007 and today I found 7 references to the subject at hand. 5 of those "kabooms" involved Tightgroup powder 1 happened with Clays 1 occurred using N320 Now, we can put a spin on this seven different ways, much like a presidential canditate would do: 1. first time reloader 2. first time 40 caliber reloader 3. something went wrong in the reloading process, just once 4. bad brass 5. double charge 6. gun malfunctioned 7. (my favorite) those are your facts, not mine I am not trying to talk anyone out of using the powder of their choice . . . makes no difference to me what you use. However, please do not try to tell me there is not an issue. The facts say otherwise. They are the facts. Look them up yourself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 (edited) It works Its cheap Its accurate It meters well Its easy found I like the feel Need we say more?! :Thumbs_Up: Did you guys accidently forget the word safe? Nearly any powder will work, it is cheap because it takes so little of it, accurate is relative, "my" powder meters well, "my" powder is easier to find and feel is (again) relative . . . "he likes the feel of 165 grain bullets, "she" like the feel of 180 grain bullets. Here's something for everyone to think about: I searched the Brian Enos archives using only the word kaboom. Now, that search turned up more than just guns (or bullets) blowing up, like primers going kaboom in a press and so on. But, between 2007 and today I found 7 references to the subject at hand. 5 of those "kabooms" involved Tightgroup powder 1 happened with Clays 1 occurred using N320 Now, we can put a spin on this seven different ways, much like a presidential canditate would do: 1. first time reloader 2. first time 40 caliber reloader 3. something went wrong in the reloading process, just once 4. bad brass 5. double charge 6. gun malfunctioned 7. (my favorite) those are your facts, not mine I am not trying to talk anyone out of using the powder of their choice . . . makes no difference to me what you use. However, please do not try to tell me there is not an issue. The facts say otherwise. They are the facts. Look them up yourself Ok so what powder can you use that you can double charge it with a .40 round, make major and not have something bad happen? At the same time not feel like a hand cannon, and have good recoil impulse. I know I got my 3 GM cards with titegroup, it works for me at least. Edited September 11, 2012 by steel1212 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Here's something for everyone to think about: I searched the Brian Enos archives using only the word kaboom. Now, that search turned up more than just guns (or bullets) blowing up, like primers going kaboom in a press and so on. But, between 2007 and today I found 7 references to the subject at hand. 5 of those "kabooms" involved Tightgroup powder 1 happened with Clays 1 occurred using N320 From your extensive research... what gun were they using? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 I did a search on "Kaboom" and two of the posts from this thread showed up. I think because Titegroup is so popular and used you will see more Kaboom posts with Titegroup than with the other powders. My friend did it with W231 and a Glock 35. So we can add that to the statistics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie j Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 I've personally loaded about 40 pounds of the stuff for 6 different guns in two calibers, all low weight >4.8 grain, charges. It's no more dangerous than any other low charge weight powder. To to OP that case appears to be overcharged , or way too short. You shouldn't "think" that you have your measure set you should know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Hello: Tite Group works for me as well. I have been using it for 6 years and never had a problem with it. Reloading ammo is a dangerous thing to do but safe if you do all the safety checks and rechecks. I have seen lots of reloads where there was not enough crimp so bullet setback could be a problem. Pushing the reloaded round, bullet first against a bench is a good thing to do and also removing the bullet to look at the amount of crimp. Lead bullets are different to reload than jacketed so check both if you use both. I will keep using Tite Group since it is accurate, cheap and available Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalaur Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 I have not shot lead with TG but I have shot 4.8 loads in a G35 with KKM barrel with no issues BUT I did find TG to be a bit fiddly to get set up the first time. It flows very freely and is small volume (compared to N320) so it requires a lot of checking on the scale when switching from a different powder. A few questions: 1. Did you scale the throws before the first load? 2. Had you used that lead bullet with another powder? 3. If yes to #2 then how did your OAL get changed? 4. 1.118 is a bit short. Heck even 1.120 is a bit short. I load to 1.135. 5. Have you pulled the bullets from any other rounds you loaded in the same batch? If so what was the scaled charge? What did the crimp look like? From what I can see from the posts it looks to me like too many things changed at one time and more checks needed at each step. As I am new to reloading I take care to triple check and only make 1 change at a time. I'll add one more to that 6. Firing higher pressure rounds out of guns with unsupported chambers. To the OP. Welcome to the world of unsupported chambers. If you want to shoot major loads, you need to look at slower powders, especially since you cannot load long. I personally find WST to be more of a go-to than TG. Works in 9, 40, or 45 with lead or jacketed rounds, major or minor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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