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Three new stages


Pensfan

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So I jumped in and started helping our local range setup stages as our current MD and Assistants are starting to feel the pressure of not having help, stage design burn out, etc. I am new to the sport still (only 6 months or so) and felt like this was a good way to help out and learn how to break down stages as well haha. I designed one stage last month that was simply a modified version of someone else's stage that I added some new components too. The below three are my first real attempts at designing from scratch.

The biggest problem we have with our bays is that they are narrow and the side "berms" are concrete blocks that we are not allowed to shoot. So we are forced to design stages that largely only fire straight downrange. We have two bays that are wider, one of which will host Decisions Decisions as it is a bigger stage with some wide angle shots.

So any input on design, layouts, loopholes in the rules, heck let me know if the stages just flat out suck, would all be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

Bad Day at the Diner.DOC

Crazy Eights.DOC

Decisions Decisions.DOC

Edited by Pensfan
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The way to make your optional shooting position for "Bad Day At the Diner" work is to have a small box under the table that is a secondary shoot area. If the shooter keeps his feet in the box, he should be okay (as long as the table is heavy enough that it can't be easily shoved away). Be sure that at least one of the legs of the chair is touching the small box to comply with:

10.2.1 A competitor who fires shots while any part of their body is touching the ground or while stepping on an object beyond a Shooting Box or a Fault Line, or who gains support or stability through contact with an object which is wholly beyond and not attached to a Shooting Box or Fault Line, will receive one procedural penalty for each occurrence.

So sitting in chair is legal since it is attached to the shooting box, but leaning on the table will incur procedurals.

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Ahh... thanks for pointing that out! I will definitely add a shooting box under the chair and fix that.

How about the stages themselves? Do they seem fun, challenging, worth inclusion in a local match? Validate me!!! haha

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They look go I would just be careful with the start position of the first stage. Seated with knees under the table and back against the chair could invite people to knock the table over with the gun on it or knock the chair over causing a tripping hazard. Remember all shooter are not the same size nor do they have the same athletic ability.

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They look go I would just be careful with the start position of the first stage. Seated with knees under the table and back against the chair could invite people to knock the table over with the gun on it or knock the chair over causing a tripping hazard. Remember all shooter are not the same size nor do they have the same athletic ability.

Good point... we have plenty of "gamers" in our matches, heck myself included haha, so I am trying to minimize the gamesmanship. Would back against rear of chair suffice and not have to worry about knees?

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For the diagram for "Crazy Eights", the wall separating the left one third from the right two thirds looks to be a low wall. As per the rule book, walls are only as tall as they are built unless the WSB specifies otherwise. (2.2.3.3) It maybe prudent to add that the wall goes up to infinity.

Additionally, if it truly is a low wall, I don't think the stage is legal because it looks like all the targets will be visible from a single shooting location at the front right corner of the shooting area. (1.2.1.3)

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For the diagram for "Crazy Eights", the wall separating the left one third from the right two thirds looks to be a low wall. As per the rule book, walls are only as tall as they are built unless the WSB specifies otherwise. (2.2.3.3) It maybe prudent to add that the wall goes up to infinity.

Additionally, if it truly is a low wall, I don't think the stage is legal because it looks like all the targets will be visible from a single shooting location at the front right corner of the shooting area. (1.2.1.3)

That is largely a result of my lack of drawing ability haha. The wall will be a double barrel high wall with mesh used to divide the stage which is why I added the hardcover statement since you will be able to see through it. I will add the infinitely high and ground level wording as well. Thanks!

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I'd love to shoot "Decisions, Decisions" and "Crazy Eights". My preference would be there be something more interesting to shoot from the seated position for "A Bad Day at the Diner". Right now there is very little reward to stay seated and shoot through the port. Something more tempting should be offered. For example, The shooter gets easier wide open shots at the targets on the sides if they chose to stay seated, versus running up to the shooting area and having to do some extreme leaning or going prone.

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I'd love to shoot "Decisions, Decisions" and "Crazy Eights".

Thanks! I think they are going to be fun. Feel free to take them and use them anytime! :)

My preference would be there be something more interesting to shoot from the seated position for "A Bad Day at the Diner". Right now there is very little reward to stay seated and shoot through the port. Something more tempting should be offered. For example, The shooter gets easier wide open shots at the targets on the sides if they chose to stay seated, versus running up to the shooting area and having to do some extreme leaning or going prone.

Hmm... I am not seeing how to add anything to make it more appealing to stay seated. That is completely based off of my inexperience, not questioning or taking offense. What would make it a better stage?

What about lowering the port and targets so they are easy to see from the table, but getting up close makes the shooter crouch, kneel?

Edited by Pensfan
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Hey Tim,

Always great to see guys jumping in and starting to go beyond just shooting the matches...not that there's anything wrong with that but seeing others shoot your stages can be really gratifying or (mortifying :roflol:), anyway here's a few general comments and a few specifics on your stages.

In general, if you're using Word and Powerpoint to design stages (it's what I use) especially with IPSC32 as the template, it's hard to get a feel for distances and target spacing unless you've got a working idea of perspective and re-size your PP objects accordingly. To that end, so you don't have to do it over and over again it's good to save copies of any of your re-sized objects to another slide a la "Stage Designer" below. Another shortcut is to put the number and type of targets into the file name you save each stage you design as so that the next time you design a stage with that number and type of targets you already have a score sheet template a la "Get Outa The Way!!!" Feel free to use either template and I have others posted in this forum under "looking for stage design software."

That said, specifics:

Bad Day at.... Skydiver has a good point, though I'd encompass the table with the shooting box so that leaning on the table would be allowed as "freestyle" would suggest. As the stage is set however, I'm not sure anyone would engage T5-T8 from the table because there's no advantage to it, you'd still have to leave the chair and engage from the other shooting area and hosing those four through the port close up will be way faster than trying them from the table. What you might want to do is put an activator popper to either side of the walls visible only from the chair (extra wall) that would activate a swinging no-shoot behind the port. This would/should give enough pause at the port to make taking the unobstructed T5-T8 from the chair a viable option.

Crazy Eights.... I'm assuming the line in the middle of the stage is a wall, on a wide shooting area like you have there's possible shoot-throughs from T2 or T3 to P1 or P2, and from T5 to T8 or T9...and spacing them appropriately can really change the flavor of the stage when you're putting it on the ground.

Decisions.... Same thing with shoot-throughs from T13 to T8, T9, T10 unless it's a lay-down target. Shots passing through the barrels while engaging the steel from the forward part of the shooting area may impact T2, minimum steel distance is going to be a factor.

Overall they look pretty good except for the tweaks mentioned...and if tweaking is all you need to do to your designs, I'd say you're off to a good start.

Good Shooting!

Gino

1 Stage Designer.ppt

6 IPSC-STL-NO SHOOT Get Outa The Way-Comstock.DOC

edited cuz when I read the WSB for "Get Outa The Way!!!" I saw that I missed editing out "open the door" as there is no door in the stage. This is the main pitfall of using previous stages as templates.

Edited by gino_aki
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I've got an idea for "A Bad Day at the Diner". It is almost along Gino's excellent idea of the swinging no shoot activated by a popper, but a lot more prop intensive.

The port has a portion that slides down like a guillotine, or flaps down like a trapdoor. A rope holds the port open. At the start position, the shooter's foot is on the rope that keeps the port open, so they can get wide open view of the targets, and have both hands free. After they leave the table, the port obviously closes. Now if they want to engage targets through the port, they'll need to either pull the rope with one hand while shooting with the other hand, or push open the port with their gun, etc. Essentially they have to do some monkey manipulation to re-open the port.

My only worry with the rope is that it can be a trip/tangle hazard unless you do some good rope routing overhead or underground. If you are lucky enough to belong to a club where each stage is built by one or two individuals and they can take all the time they want to dress a stage, then taking the time will be worth it. On the other hand if you belong to a club where multiple stages are built by 1-3 people, it'll be more trouble than it's worth so either the shooters will just have to be aware of the rope, or just go with the activated swinger.

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A couple of things on "Bad Day at the Diner".

I don't know about you guys, but I'm trying to make things as simple as possible. The start position here is "Seated in chair fully within Box A, back against rear of chair, palms flat on table". I would start you - seated in chair, hands on table.

Stage procedure would be: On signal engage all targets as visible from Shooting Area A and/or B.

I've been building stages, running matches, and ROing shooters for a looooong time. I've learned that the simpler and more freestyle I can make it, the better for the shooter and a LOT better on me. If I try to get to specific it brings up lots of questions and people will figure out a way to do something different than the way you had in mind for them to shoot it. Try to give them the stage and say: start here and shoot it.

Edited by 22 shooter
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Thanks for all the feedback everyone. It's funny that "Bad Day at the Diner" I had originally envisioned as the simplest one to setup and run... in all actuality it is turning into the most discussed haha.

Before it is finalized for the match next weekend, I agree it might simply be changed to "shoot as visible from A/B" and leave it at that.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thanks for the feedback everyone. The stages went off great and were all well received. Now I need to come up with 3-4 more for this month's match haha. Designing the short/medium courses are easy, the long field courses are a lot tougher to come up with without going the "position 1 8 shots, position 2 8 shots", etc route.

I shoot a lot of matches that Ray Hirst has designed so I try to emulate his style with having targets available from multiple positions, hidden around corners, etc. He does it far better than I do haha. Combined with our range only allowing downrange shots, I am having a hard time coming up with a good field course.

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It comes with practice. Keep designing stages. I'm quite sure your fellow club members appreciate it.

It need not be 8 shots here, 8 shots there. I usually think in terms of 6's even though I'm not a revolver shooter. We have a strong Production following in this area, and 6's puts pressure on the Production shooter on deciding whether to hold on to that magazine for a few more shots long shots, or leave a trail of magazines with 4 rounds. And besides, it makes the revo shooters happy. :) To be evil, I think in terms of 7's. Makes SS Major shooters feel confident that they have a spare round available if they need it, but has the weird side effect of also making them go faster than they should.

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