160gr vs 147gr in Shadow

[TerryYu]

I'm getting ready to order more bullets and started to read about people's experiences with 160gr in the Shadow. Many of the posts are a bit old, and I was wondering if anybody is currently shooting 160s and what they though of them vs the 147s and even the 124s.

Based on my literature review (ha) the 160s can be really soft shooting like .40 minor but can/will tumble. I'd like to know if the 160 is worth the extra couple of bucks over the 147s. Right now I'm using 125gr bayous and people tell me that it's not the optimal thing I can send down my barrel. I want to standardize on a bullet weight, order a billion of them, and throw it into mass production over the winter.

Last Saturday I was beaten by a 14 year old. He's really good but my pride suffers so it's time to get to training.

Thanks,

Terry

Edited September 3, 2012 by TerryYu

[Torogi]

i'd question those people who told you that 125gr bullet is not an optimal thing. Fact is there is more shooters i know using 124/125 gr bullets than any other weight. I personally use 135gr.

147gr is hit and miss. Ive shot it for 1yr with very minimal tumbling. Recently it just gotten worse so i made the switch. I did try a 160gr one time and its just worse. I didnt bother to develop a load for it since its counter productive.

If you have the option to buy a sample, do it. Stick with 1 powder if you can so you can tell the difference. In my experience, soft or 'flat' recoil can never compensate for accuracy.

Goodluck!

[Hi-Power Jack]

I was wondering if anybody is 160s and what they though of them vs the 147s and the 124s.

Right now I'm using 125gr bayous and people tell me that it's not the optimal thing I can send down my barrel. I want to standardize on a bullet weight, order a billion of them, and throw it into mass production over the winter.

Terry, before I purchased a "billion" bullets, I'd try the 147's vs the 124's you

are using now - you may prefer the 124's - lots of people do.

IFF you love the 147's, then I'd try 500 of the 160's and see what you prefer,

with different powders (WW231, N320, etc).

Only Then, would I go out and buy a "billion" bullets - I bought a billion bullets

(all 124 JHP's from MG for my TruBor 9mm major) - but I tried the 115's first, and

preferred the 124's.

If you're undecided, then stay with the 124's which are working for you and less

expensive than 147's - good luck.

[TerryYu]

That is probably the most measured method of figuring stuff out.

I'll go order 500 of each and see what happens, worst case I'm out 40 bucks.

Thanks.

[lawboy]

I'd be interested in hearing your results as I am in the process of working up a load for the 2008 CZ Custom Shadow I just purchased. I have been testing Xtreme 147gr bullets with CCI primers and 3.6grs WST. Accuracy is 2-4 inches at 50 feet shooting freehand. I kind of feel as if the 147gr bullets are not optimal and that lighter bullets would shoot better. I am not getting tumbling but I do get some shots that just to not add up given my read of the sights when I pull the trigger. Still inconclusive given how new the gun is to me but I think the 135gr Bear Creeks I have coming are going to do better.

[GeneBray]

Found this tonight while searching for info on pistol twist rates based on caliber and bullet weight. Thought it might be of interest. It is a long article, the last paragraph follows:

In terms of barrel design, there are two important reasons why CZ pistols have a reputation for outstanding accuracy. First, CZ pistols have six, rather than four, rifling grooves. Although six grooves have now become more or less standard, four grooves were the norm for many decades. Smokeless powder had been around for nearly fifty years before designs with six rifling grooves were adopted in significant numbers. Ceska Zbrojovka appears to have been ahead of the technology curve by at least a decade or so. (For example, the Mk. I Hi-Powers have four rifling grooves.) All CZ pistol designs, including the vz/22 and vz/24, have had six rifling grooves. Second, CZ 75/85 series pistols have a faster rate of twist than many other 9mm designs at @1:10 (as opposed to 1:12-1:14). This makes them better suited to 124gr and heavier bullets than most other 9mm pistols. This has been an important factor in their success, since most nations began switching over to 124gr bullets about twenty years ago. Commercial loads heavier than 124gr began to appear on the market at about the same time that CZ pistols became readily available in the West. Although 147gr loads are not as accurate in a 9mm CZ as bullets in the 115-135gr range, the CZs handle them much better than some of their competitors.

Link to complete article: http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=14715.0

[GeneBray]

Two more links that might be of interest:

http://kwk.us/twist.html and http://www.montanabulletworks.com/page11.html

[Jonathan Taliani]

Found this tonight while searching for info on pistol twist rates based on caliber and bullet weight. Thought it might be of interest. It is a long article, the last paragraph follows:

In terms of barrel design, there are two important reasons why CZ pistols have a reputation for outstanding accuracy. First, CZ pistols have six, rather than four, rifling grooves. Although six grooves have now become more or less standard, four grooves were the norm for many decades. Smokeless powder had been around for nearly fifty years before designs with six rifling grooves were adopted in significant numbers. Ceska Zbrojovka appears to have been ahead of the technology curve by at least a decade or so. (For example, the Mk. I Hi-Powers have four rifling grooves.) All CZ pistol designs, including the vz/22 and vz/24, have had six rifling grooves. Second, CZ 75/85 series pistols have a faster rate of twist than many other 9mm designs at @1:10 (as opposed to 1:12-1:14). This makes them better suited to 124gr and heavier bullets than most other 9mm pistols. This has been an important factor in their success, since most nations began switching over to 124gr bullets about twenty years ago. Commercial loads heavier than 124gr began to appear on the market at about the same time that CZ pistols became readily available in the West. Although 147gr loads are not as accurate in a 9mm CZ as bullets in the 115-135gr range, the CZs handle them much better than some of their competitors.

Link to complete article: http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=14715.0

That is an interesting read. Thanks for sharing.

[Jonathan Taliani]

Somehow double posted

Edited September 6, 2012 by Jonathan Taliani

[TerryYu]

I loaded 147gr with 3.3gr of N320 at 1.135 last week. Huge difference between those and the 115/124 grainers. The muzzle blast is so low and it almost felt like a .22.

Me likey!

[pivoproseem]

From what I've tried out, it seems the 130-135 grain bullets are the best for the CZ...they work better for me with Clays and Solo 1000.

[CeeZer]

Agree - 130-135gr bullet is closest to perfect in CZ with their barrel twist rate.

Do some research on what one of the best Production shooter's used, while competing. He doesn't compete anymore.

139-140grn may be THE load. Cat's what?

Either and Other -- wise - any sub-sonic load would be preferred.

[TerryYu]

I got a big order of 160grs in and I can say that they are pretty impressive. Even less recoil than the 147grs and they can out of my Shadow, hit milk jugs out to 75 yards after figuring out the correct holdover.

3.0gr of N320 at 1.14inches will make about 130-132pf out of a CZ and will chamber with room to spare. Just make sure you have a lightish recoil spring, I use a 9# spring as this load failed to cycle reliably in a friend's 9mm 1911.

[gonbzrk]

I'm using the same load (3.0gr of N320, 1.140 OAL) in my SP01 Shadow... Works perfectly with a 10# spring. Consistently @ 130 -131 PF. No tumbling at all!

[Alphamikefoxtrot]

I have run 160's through my cz and really liked the results. I didn't find them to be way better than the 147's though so I just stuck with those. Its all about feel. You may find that you like the 125's with one powder and the 147's with another. I use unique with my 147 loads and they feel great.

[TerryYu]

I had a bunch of 147s that I shot up prior to the 160s. The cone shape didn't give me a warm fuzzy for feed reliability. Over 2k rounds the gun didn't misfeed, but there were definitely times where I could feel the slide hang up prior to chambering the round because it had to get the cone over the feed ramp. The 160s are round and go in like butter.

[TerryYu]

What's your load data with Unique? I bought a pound one day for s&g and might have to fall back to it when I run out of N320 if i can't more.

[fishpinoy27]

I loaded 147gr with 3.3gr of N320 at 1.135 last week. Huge difference between those and the 115/124 grainers. The muzzle blast is so low and it almost felt like a .22.

Me likey!

try N340 too...with the 147's..