Nimitz Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 (edited) Ok, I had posted earlier that I was having trouble with my initial lead 9mm reloads. Of the firt couple of huundred some worked & some have not. At first I thought it might be an OAL issue but I think I've been able to rule that out. Then I thought it was an issue with my resizing die not set correctly but that doesn't seem to be it either. Last night I think I finally figured out the real issue but the question is what to do about it. I decided to start from scratch to see if I could isolate the issue. So, I took my Lee U-die off & reset it. I then ran a few pieces of brass through it, took out the brass & dropped the in my barrel & they fit & rotated freely without issue & dropped free when I turned the barrel upside down. Next I put these cases back in the press & seated & crimped a couple of 124g Missouri lead bullets. I then dropped these dummy rounds into my barrel & low & below they no longer turned freely or dropped out freely ... So it appears I have some sort of issue with the bullet, right? To test this theory I grabbed a berry's copper plated bullet from a sample I bought& ran the same process to make a dummy round ... the very first round I made turned freely in the barrel & dropped right out ... As I mentioned in my earlier posts I had bought sample packs of SnS casting, Precision & Missouri lead bullets to try. The Precision were taking a long time to come in so I had a friend of mine make up the samples of SnS & Missouri to chrono. I had both 124 & 147 SnS so I had him make some 147s as well. He made them at 1.145 and they all worked without issue when I chroned them. I'm out of the SnS sample 124s so I've been loading the Missouri 125s which are the ones I seem to be having trouble with. Given that I seem to be able to load a 124g copper plated bullet the first time I tried without issue I'm struggling to understand what the problem is with the 124 Missouri bullets? Any ideas? (I'm going to give another friend of my 5 of those bullets tomorrow & ask him to make up some rounds & see what happens) All this BTW is for a G34 ... Edited August 27, 2012 by Nimitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youngeyes Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 I would check your crimp. The softer bullet may bulge under the same amount of crimp that wouldn't effect a plated bullet.Are you using a separate crimp die? Back off on the crimp and recheck. Pull one of those no fit rounds and check the lead for a crimp ring pushed into the bullet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Ryder Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 I believe it may be easier to learn to reload first using FMJ, Lee U die, and individual seat and crip dies. JMHO. good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshidaex Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 Lead bullets tend to run a bit on the larger side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProGunGuy Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 (edited) if you have the hole for it, get a lee FCD. use the previous station to seat and slight close the bell. Thne run it through the next stage. I betcha it will will fix your problem. The Fcd make a heck a lot of difference for me when loading lead or moly Edited August 27, 2012 by ProGunGuy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superdude Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 (edited) And are you sure that the bullet is at the correct overall length and not seated to far out? That could also produce what you're seeing. The bullet nose might be engaging the riflings before the cartridge is fully seated. See the link below for information about overall length issues. http://38super.net/Pages/Overall%20Length.html Edited August 27, 2012 by superdude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glockman1000 Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 Are the Missouri bullet profiles the same as the others you tried? That can make a big difference in how they can be loaded to a specific application. How far into shooting them did the problems occur? Was it from the get go or progressively? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 I dropped the brass in my barrel & they fit & rotated freely . Next I seated & crimped 124g Missouri lead bullets. they no longer turned freely or dropped out freely ... So it appears I have some sort of issue with the bullet, right? Nimitz, each bullet is different. When you realized the MLB wouldn't rotate or drop freely, that was a clue that your OAL for the MLB was too long - might have been fine for the other bullets you loaded, but too long for the MLB. I'd try seating the MLB's a little shorter - test it incrementally - until you can find a length that allows the cartridge to rotate and drop freely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted August 27, 2012 Author Share Posted August 27, 2012 thx all ... let me try to answer everyone's questions & I'll try those suggestions tonight youngeyes: I am using a separate Dillon taper crimp die. I'll pull one as you suggest & take a look yoshidaex: that's what I'm starting to assume. I'll check the diameters of a few tonight to confirm progun guy: I'll look into the lee FCD. Since I need to stick with lead bullets to keep costs down as I'm sending 600+ rds/wk downrange I'd be happy if that makes my issues go away ... superdude: thanks for the link, I'll check again but I've seated some as short as 1.128 and they still get stuck ... Glockman1000: unfortunately the only other RN I have at the moment are a few completed rds using SnS. I can pull one or two & compare to the Missouris. The problem was progressive. My friend loaded 30 for me to chrono while I was setting up my press - they all worked perfectly (OAL 1.145). I then made up 20 once I was setup, went to the range & they all worked as well (same OAL). At that point I loaded up 150 & figured I was good for an upcoming match that weekend. Shot the first 3 stages without issue then started having problems. been having problems since then with some working some not ... that's when I started to try & chase down the specific problem Hi-power jack: that was my first assumption but my friend's rounds worked perfectly at 1.145? However, I will do as you suggest & continue to load short & see if I can get to an OAL which works I also think at this point I'll probably stick with SnS casting bullets as I didn't seem to have any issues with those. However, I would like to understand what's going on here for my own learning purposes and I'll like to use up the remaining MLBs if possible ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superdude Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 The first thing to check is your overall length. Different bullets have different nose profiles, and require different overall lengths to fit in the chamber. That might be the only issue here. As Hi-Power Jack noted, keep seating the bullet deeper until it passes the plunk and rotate test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babaganoosh Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 I thought using an undersized die with lead was a bad idea? That's iirc. Anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glockman1000 Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 An undersize die might be good to go with lead if the case is properly expanded & belled. Nimitz I am assuming you are using a Dillon press if so, the powder/expander funnel should be within spec for a lead bullet. A Lee CFCD will probably work but may deform the bullet after being run through it. The case may spring back but the bullet won't. YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted August 27, 2012 Author Share Posted August 27, 2012 yes, I'm using a XL650. I will try tonight & continue to shorten the OAL until I can get it to work. I'm currently using 4.4g of WST for a PF of 129. I assume I can just leave that alone even though the pressure will increase somewhat or should I reduce the powder charge as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 Leave as is, upping the PF slightly would be a good idea. Not good to run too close as chronos can be a little different at different matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted August 27, 2012 Author Share Posted August 27, 2012 agreed. I was actually waiting to finalize my PF once I selected a bullet to go with and of course now get my OAL issues under control as well ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 I will try to shorten the OAL until I can get it to work. I'm currently using 4.4g of WST for a PF of 129. should I reduce the powder charge as well? Nimitz, determining your OAL for your gun with your brand of bullets is best done without powder. Just put the bullet in at 1.13" and see if that drops into your barrel (and out). If not shorten to 1.12", until you find a length that works. Then worry about the PF and powder charge. But there's not a lot of difference in velocity by dropping your OAL unless you're started to compress the powder (and 4.4 grains shouldn't be compressed at 1.10"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted August 27, 2012 Author Share Posted August 27, 2012 Agreed, I should have been more clear, once I got the OAL correct I was wondering if I then needed to change powder load before I made a few test rounds ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sroe3 Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 I've had to load short, sometimes to 1.09 or 1.10. Wouldn't surprise me if OAL is your issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tac_driver Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 I use Missouri 124gr bullets and I load them at 1.080 for my glock 19 I'm pretty sure it is your OAL giving you the problems that you are having. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted August 28, 2012 Author Share Posted August 28, 2012 so I got around to loading some dummy rounds and at an OAL of 1.108 - 1.12 they all drop in/out of the barrel & rotate freely. I'll make up some live rounds tonight & head to the range tomorrow to see if my issues are over. Good learning expereince as I just thought all RN bullets of the same diameter were the same ... as a test I took a couple of the rds I have left made from SnS casting bullets and at 1.145 they all work just fine as well ... can't wait to experiment with the precision 124 FP & SnS 147 FP bullets I have. I know that FPs have to be loaded shorter relative to a RN so I'll start short & see what happens ... thx again to everyone for the help ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProGunGuy Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 its missouri bullets roundness that is the issue. they use a really round,almost full length instead of pointy like everyone else. Get some more pointy ones and you will can losd them longer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted August 29, 2012 Author Share Posted August 29, 2012 Agreed, the first sample I had was from SnS casting and they worked fine at 1.145 .... Being completely new to this once I had used up that sample I just started to load the Missouri samples I had to the same OAL .... Now I know better . I also know that for max reliability you want to lad as long as possible and still have them feed, right? Therefore I'm going to stick with the SnS bullets which I can load long ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superdude Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Agreed, the first sample I had was from SnS casting and they worked fine at 1.145 .... Being completely new to this once I had used up that sample I just started to load the Missouri samples I had to the same OAL .... Now I know better . I also know that for max reliability you want to lad as long as possible and still have them feed, right? This is generally true. Therefore I'm going to stick with the SnS bullets which I can load long ... But some guns will feed just about anything, long, short, whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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