How Practical is PractiScore?

[Graham Smith]

We are working on it. In talking with some folks at the Area 8 match, we were under the impression that we could use a Kindle Touch. Didn't quite work out. So now we're getting a Nook and we'll go from there.

I have two Kindle Simple Touch pads that are already rooted. I've got them working but have not been able to work out the best way to handle registration and squadding. You know how frantic it is during that last 15-30 min before the match starts when all the final details have to get done.

Drop me an email and we can put our heads together. I'd wanted to run one squad on the pads at SC this summer but things have just spiraled out of control.

[wgnoyes]

Nooks, I think you mean, right?

Oh by the way, this is from Chris Wren after trying to score a match with 1.0.6 on NST's last sunday

1.0.6 has a catastrophic bug. It will only import the last shooter from the PSS.txt registration export file from EzWinScore.

I had a match today where we had 53 shooters in EZWS. I exported the match to the SD card on the Nook, fired up PS, imported it, and only the last shooter in the PSS.txt file was registered. Ultimately, I had to manually re-enter the 53 shooters on to the iPad. Luckily, the majority of them were already in the local database, and I only had to fully enter about a half-dozen new shooters. I was pretty much in a state of panic, and had to fall-back to paper score sheets until I was done with the manual setup.

Later, at home, I backed down to 1.0.5, imported the same file with NO problems.

Edited August 28, 2012 by wgnoyes

[jcwren]

Nooks, I think you mean, right?

Oh by the way, this is from Chris Wren after trying to score a match with 1.0.6 on NST's last sunday

1.0.6 has a catastrophic bug. It will only import the last shooter from the PSS.txt registration export file from EzWinScore.

I had a match today where we had 53 shooters in EZWS. I exported the match to the SD card on the Nook, fired up PS, imported it, and only the last shooter in the PSS.txt file was registered. Ultimately, I had to manually re-enter the 53 shooters on to the iPad. Luckily, the majority of them were already in the local database, and I only had to fully enter about a half-dozen new shooters. I was pretty much in a state of panic, and had to fall-back to paper score sheets until I was done with the manual setup.

Later, at home, I backed down to 1.0.5, imported the same file with NO problems.

I have an interim build that fixes this. They'll be pushing a version to the Android Market with this repaired, and also with CSV import working (not sure what that's for, just now).

Right now I'm trying to "negotiate" how the import of the PSS.txt file should work. Currently, they're using their matching algorithm, which is based on USPSA number, last name, first name, telephone and email, based on a priority. The matching algorithm is perfect for when you're syncing devices, but if you're importing a PSS.txt file, my argument is the ONLY thing that matters is the EZWS assigned shooter number.

The reason I say this is that if you're doing an import, it's possible that you're doing multiple imports. They've fixed the interim build where it no longer duplicates each shooter each time the PSS.txt is imported, but updates it. However, if the matching algorithm fails because you've corrected a USPSA number (and currently the matching algorithm does NOT ignore the prefix, which is sub-ideal), or the spelling of a name for someone who doesn't have a USPSA number, the match will fail, and the shooter will be duplicated.

In my mind, it needs to *completely* overwrite the data for the matching EZWS assigned shooter number. This allows you to make corrections in EZWS as registration progresses, and export the registration to the device multiple times without having to delete the match, create it again (possibly adding stages), etc.

Just to re-enforce a point, the behavior described above should ONLY occur when importing a PSS.txt file. For the syncing, their matching algorithm is the correct approach.

--jc

[Too_Slow]

We had the same problem this weekend. 85 shooters and 8 squads. I got sent the interim version myself and tested it and it worked fine for me as well. What a time to find a bug like that though.

Brian

Edited August 28, 2012 by Too_Slow

[jcwren]

We had the same problem this weekend. 85 shooters and 8 squads. I got sent the interim version myself and tested it and it worked fine for me as well. What a time to find a bug like that though.

Brian

Yea, I was getting near the close edge of panicky. We don't have internet access out there, and I had to hand-key the 53 shooters in to the iPad, then do the sync.

With everyone already in EZWS, and most of the shooters in the PS database on the iPad, I was able to enter them, and for most, only had to assign the squad. If I'd have had to type everyone names in, I'd have just gone to paper for the entire match, and scored it old-school.

[centermass]

Which function generates the PSS.txt file for match registration export to Practiscore? Are you renaming a registration.txt file?

How does the Match Import work with a .psc file, and where do I find it?

[wgnoyes]

It's done here. Select the "sync" tab at the bottom to get to the ezwinscore sync group.

Tap on 'export match registration' to export the reg.txt file. These are your shooters. Your method of actually getting it over to windows is your choice. Emailing as an attachment work, so does export to another app (dropbox, specifically).

Then tap on 'export match stages & scores" to bring over the rest of the match. (5 files this time). Note that if you're using dropbox, he'll export a single zip file containing the 5 files; email send 5 separate attachment with the email msg.

On windows, create a folder on the c: drive called practiscore. Copy the files into that folder.

Create a new empty match in ezwinscore. In the match information window, select the c:\practiscore folder you created, else you won't be able to import anything. Pay no attention to whatever comes up that he's bitching about.

Pulldown 'match' and select 'handheld' and click the 'import stages' cmdbutton to bring in your stage descriptions. If you have a multi-string stage, you'll have to change that yourself manually, I believe. If you have a CLASSIFIER, then go back into regular 'stage definitions' and select the correct classifier description BEFORE you import actual scores.

pulldown 'setup' and select 'registration' (or click on the little guy in glasses on the toolbar). Select the 'registration import' tab. Click on the 'csv' radio button (that's important!) and then press the 'registration import' cmdbutton. Select the 'reg.txt' file in c:\practiscore to bring in your competitors.

Pulldown 'match' and select 'handheld' again and press the 'import scores' cmdbutton. The remainder of your match as it exists in ps will be brought in.

Please note, you will have to run a classification update on your imported match to restore actual classifications; they are NOT brought over in the import process. Likewise, you'll have to DQ people again in ezws if you already did so in ps, and also handle the DNF's (someone's gun broke and they went home, etc). To do DNF's, just running the 'missing scoresheet' report and that'll pretty much tell you the same as if you had paper scoresheets. You WILL have to check them back against ps, however, because an INCOMPLETE score in ps (missing time, or too few or too many hits) will not be brought over.

Edited August 30, 2012 by wgnoyes

[centermass]

Sorry, Bill, I may have not been clear... I want to export my registation from EZWS to Practiscore. I know that's not the preferred method, but I'd like to try all the options. I was able to export my master db from EZ to PS, but haven't been able to accomplish the same for a specific match. I'd also like to export a current match, the stage definitions, (not yet scored) from EZ to PS (the .psc file) but cannot locate any such file.

[jcwren]

Sorry, Bill, I may have not been clear... I want to export my registation from EZWS to Practiscore. I know that's not the preferred method, but I'd like to try all the options. I was able to export my master db from EZ to PS, but haven't been able to accomplish the same for a specific match. I'd also like to export a current match, the stage definitions, (not yet scored) from EZ to PS (the .psc file) but cannot locate any such file.

PS currently has no way to import stages.

To import your registration, set up the Handheld directory in EZWS to point to c:\practiscore, go to Match->Handheld->Export Registration. The exported registration will be in PSS.txt in the directory the Handheld field points to (there's a dialog that tells you where you saved it, too). Put that in Dropbox, mail it to yourself, whatever.

The next step depends on if your using the iOS or Android version. For Android, I use Dropbox, export the PSS.txt to somewhere on the Android device (usually /sdcard), then in PS, go to the 'Sync' tab, and 'Import Match Registration'.

If you're using a Nook, or some other Android device that does NOT have an SD card, let me know. There's a way around that. Most phones and tablets have an SD card. A Nook has a slot for one, but I don't leave one in any of ours.

And while EZWS -> PS may not be ideal, it's what we do all the time. I'd like a LOT more seamless integration between the products, but EZWS is around to stay for a while. PS just doesn't cut it for large matches where you need to do squad balancing and juggling at the last second. I take my laptop, bring in the ShootNScoreIt registration file, add my walk-ups, do the squadding changes, then export to PS (typically a Nook), create the stages, and then sync all the other devices to it.

--jc

Edited August 30, 2012 by jcwren

[centermass]

To import your registration, set up the Handheld directory in EZWS to point to c:\practiscore, go to Match->Handheld->Export Registration. The exported registration will be in PSS.txt in the directory the Handheld field points ...For Android, I use Dropbox, export the PSS.txt to somewhere on the Android device (usually /sdcard), then in PS, go to the 'Sync' tab, and 'Import Match Registration'.

--jc

Thanks jc! Exactly what I was looking for... that is how I exported my master db into PS: copied the registration.txt file into Dropbox, exported that to my sdcard, then grabbed it with the PS sync. Just couldn't figure out that I needed to have a separate directory from the EZ match info window for the current match registration. It makes sense now... I think.

[JTMaddox]

The MGM Ironman, the most grueling 3 gun in the country, used Practiscore this year. I don't know if they used ipads or nooks, but everyone in match management said it worked perfectly.

Blue Ridge Mountain 3 Gun will also be using it in October to run 250+ shooters over 3 days.

How does this work for 3-gun? How do you input penalties for FTE and FTN or other penalties like failure to rotate a spinner 360 degrees? I just started researching this, but it seems like it's designed to be fairly purpose specific to USPSA?

Any body using this for 3 -gun that can comment?

[Mark K]

The MGM Ironman, the most grueling 3 gun in the country, used Practiscore this year. I don't know if they used ipads or nooks, but everyone in match management said it worked perfectly.

Blue Ridge Mountain 3 Gun will also be using it in October to run 250+ shooters over 3 days.

How does this work for 3-gun? How do you input penalties for FTE and FTN or other penalties like failure to rotate a spinner 360 degrees? I just started researching this, but it seems like it's designed to be fairly purpose specific to USPSA?

Any body using this for 3 -gun that can comment?

We use it for 3-Gun. PS includes Time Plus & Time Plus w/ points as optional match types. You can customize penalties.

Mark K

[JTMaddox]

We use it for 3-Gun. PS includes Time Plus & Time Plus w/ points as optional match types. You can customize penalties.

Mark K

Thanks Mark! I found where I can edit that...very cool...

[Rob Tompkins]

Interesting discussion. At a local USPSA match the MD recently went from Palms to NST's w/ PS. Works much better, at least from the stand point of the shooter. Training is not as big a deal as it seems, most pick it up quick and are willing to ask questions if needed. Yes we do have few who don't like to help score but they would be that way with paper as well.

I'm also the MD at a local IDPA match and Outlaw 3-gun. We're still using paper but I'm looking very hard at moving the matches to PS. It may or may not save me time considering the registraton work load but I'll be able to get scores out MUCH sooner. I'm still in the reserach mode but leaning towards getting a couple of the new GN7's and portable WiFi router. I should be albe to sync my phone right after I sync the tablets then post to the Practiscore page. Scores are out before I leave the range!

Most of the time we have <30 shooters for IDPA and <15 for 3-gun so not much need for more than two squads. It should be a pretty simple process over all.

[Mark K]

Rod,

Get with Mark R, he had quite a bit of experience the Nook and PS. I am sure he will help you out.

Mark K

[jcwren]

Interesting discussion. At a local USPSA match the MD recently went from Palms to NST's w/ PS. Works much better, at least from the stand point of the shooter. Training is not as big a deal as it seems, most pick it up quick and are willing to ask questions if needed. Yes we do have few who don't like to help score but they would be that way with paper as well.

I'm also the MD at a local IDPA match and Outlaw 3-gun. We're still using paper but I'm looking very hard at moving the matches to PS. It may or may not save me time considering the registraton work load but I'll be able to get scores out MUCH sooner. I'm still in the reserach mode but leaning towards getting a couple of the new GN7's and portable WiFi router. I should be albe to sync my phone right after I sync the tablets then post to the Practiscore page. Scores are out before I leave the range!

Most of the time we have <30 shooters for IDPA and <15 for 3-gun so not much need for more than two squads. It should be a pretty simple process over all.

There's two monthly matches I run scores for, Cherokee Gun Club and River Bend Gun Club. We use Shoot'n'Score It for registration. I wrote a web-based utility for getting the match out of SSI into EzWinScore (http://tinymicros.com/ssi2ezws). I use a laptop with EzWinScore at registration to handle the walk-ups and to keep the squads balanced. I then export the match from EzWinScore to Practiscore on my iPad (could be anything, though), sync the 6 NSTs plus a couple back-ups to the iPad, and we're off and shooting. During the match I sync my iPad to all the stage devices (we leave the devices at the stage, this works much better than letting the squad carry it around). End of the match, results are up in minutes. We've got this fairly streamlined.

I also score a weekly match for North Atlanta Action Shooters. For this club, we have 2 NSTs, but one is just a back-up. I do all the registration and scoring on that NST, since we have between 8 and 22 shooters, depending on the phase of the moon (nothing else seems to correlate any better to our turnout...). After the match, I sync to my iPad, and then post the results to Practiscore, about 5 minutes after the match ends. The only reason the iPad is necessary is because you can't upload scores to Practiscore.com from an Android device yet.

With the exception of one or two possible Luddites, NO ONE wants to go back to paper. A few people have *claimed* that they won't even shoot the match if they have to go back to scoring on paper (and yeah, you're right. There's always the small subset that do most of the RO-ing, most of the scoring, and most of the pasting).

Practiscore is the only way to go. The only thing we really haven't run into yet is NSTs in the rain. We've been lucky, but it WILL happen. We've got 2 gallon Ziplock bags handy for that. Note that regardless of what any case manufacturer tells you, you CANNOT operate an NST through anything. So trying to use it through the Ziplock bag, or through any of the other cases materials, WON'T work. It's because the screen is infra-red and not resistor or capacitive touch technology.

--jc (looking at 21 NSTs sitting on my desk for updating to 1.0.11)

[wgnoyes]

...regardless of what any case manufacturer tells you, you CANNOT operate an NST through anything. So trying to use it through the Ziplock bag, or through any of the other cases materials, WON'T work. It's because the screen is infra-red and not resistor or capacitive touch technology.

...

Which is really too bad, because Glad has a ziplock sandwich bag that fits so well it's almost like it was MADE for the NST! But, it doesn't work.

[JTMaddox]

Anybody want to give a detailed description of how to set up practiscore on an NST? Any real issues when you sync back to an iPad? Any other real issues with these devices? I'm wanting to get something setup in time to use on our November 3-Gun match, 6 stages, expecting around 100 shooters and do not want to do all that tabulation after the match.

Thanks,

Jeremy

[jcwren]

Anybody want to give a detailed description of how to set up practiscore on an NST? Any real issues when you sync back to an iPad? Any other real issues with these devices? I'm wanting to get something setup in time to use on our November 3-Gun match, 6 stages, expecting around 100 shooters and do not want to do all that tabulation after the match.

Thanks,

Jeremy

We use this procedure: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1346748 It actually looks more complicated than it is, but it's been the most reliable one.

I'm in the processing of writing up a wiki page, with the software directly available, and more detailed step-by-step instructions.

Once you get the device rooted, you may ask yourself "Now, how do I load the Practiscore application"? Well, the easiest way is to put it on an SD card as "Practiscore.apk", open the web browser, and in the address bar type "file:///sdcard/Practiscore.apk". Make sure you have enabled 3-rd party applications by opening the NookColor Tools application, and checking "Allow Non-Market Apps". If it is already checked, un-check it, then check it. For some reason, even though it is checked after the rooting process, it doesn't appear that it actually "took".

The other thing that is not obvious is this: Before rooting, you need to register the device on Barnes and Nobel. We have a throw-away account we use, which 'adamson_alan@hotmail.com' with the password 'saratoga'.

We've done over 23 NSTs with this process, and I'm fixing to do another 7 here shortly (which I will use the web page I'm writing to verify the process)

--jc

[wgnoyes]

Anybody want to give a detailed description of how to set up practiscore on an NST? Any real issues when you sync back to an iPad? Any other real issues with these devices? I'm wanting to get something setup in time to use on our November 3-Gun match, 6 stages, expecting around 100 shooters and do not want to do all that tabulation after the match.

Thanks,

Jeremy

We use this procedure: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1346748 It actually looks more complicated than it is, but it's been the most reliable one.

I'm in the processing of writing up a wiki page, with the software directly available, and more detailed step-by-step instructions.

Once you get the device rooted, you may ask yourself "Now, how do I load the Practiscore application"? Well, the easiest way is to put it on an SD card as "Practiscore.apk", open the web browser, and in the address bar type "file:///sdcard/Practiscore.apk". Make sure you have enabled 3-rd party applications by opening the NookColor Tools application, and checking "Allow Non-Market Apps". If it is already checked, un-check it, then check it. For some reason, even though it is checked after the rooting process, it doesn't appear that it actually "took".

The other thing that is not obvious is this: Before rooting, you need to register the device on Barnes and Nobel. We have a throw-away account we use, which 'adamson_alan@hotmail.com' with the password 'saratoga'.

We've done over 23 NSTs with this process, and I'm fixing to do another 7 here shortly (which I will use the web page I'm writing to verify the process)

--jc

Alan or you have mentioned before that you have a standard SD card with the rooting stuff already on it. It might be useful to package that up into a .dmg or .iso file on your page so we can just get it and not have to pick and choose component files?

[Rob Tompkins]

Interesting discussion. At a local USPSA match the MD recently went from Palms to NST's w/ PS. Works much better, at least from the stand point of the shooter. Training is not as big a deal as it seems, most pick it up quick and are willing to ask questions if needed. Yes we do have few who don't like to help score but they would be that way with paper as well.

I'm also the MD at a local IDPA match and Outlaw 3-gun. We're still using paper but I'm looking very hard at moving the matches to PS. It may or may not save me time considering the registration work load but I'll be able to get scores out MUCH sooner. I'm still in the research mode but leaning towards getting a couple of the new GN7's and portable WiFi router. I should be able to sync my phone right after I sync the tablets then post to the Practiscore page. Scores are out before I leave the range!

Most of the time we have <30 shooters for IDPA and <15 for 3-gun so not much need for more than two squads. It should be a pretty simple process over all.

... After the match, I sync to my iPad, and then post the results to Practiscore, about 5 minutes after the match ends. The only reason the iPad is necessary is because you can't upload scores to Practiscore.com from an Android device yet.

With the exception of one or two possible Luddites, NO ONE wants to go back to paper. A few people have *claimed* that they won't even shoot the match if they have to go back to scoring on paper (and yeah, you're right. There's always the small subset that do most of the RO-ing, most of the scoring, and most of the pasting)....

Humm... I had not seen the coment about not being able to upload to Parctisore from Androids. I guess I can just e-mail scores.

Good to hear such positive response to electronic scoring.

[JTMaddox]

Would i be better off running practiscore on the nook color or the NST? anyone have experience with both? Comparison of ease of setup? Screen visibility in sunlight? battery life?

any assistance that anyone can offer is much appreciated.

Jeremy

[wgnoyes]

Don't know. Probably have to be rooted. Here's the latest (Aug 2012) review from cnet. http://reviews.cnet.com/nook-color-review

[jcwren]

Would i be better off running practiscore on the nook color or the NST? anyone have experience with both? Comparison of ease of setup? Screen visibility in sunlight? battery life?

any assistance that anyone can offer is much appreciated.

Jeremy

Supposedly the NOOK Color can be rooted to run Practiscore. I was thinking there was a NOOK model that couldn't, but I must be confusing it with another.

The NST is ultra-readable in sunlight, and the battery life is phenomenal. Even in low light it's pretty readable. More importantly, they're cheap, so if one takes a round to the head, you're only out $60 instead of $150+. The side scroller buttons also make paging really easy. I don't think the Color has those.

I can't speak to the other models of NOOKs, but the NST uses an infrared touch detection system. This does make it un-usable through any sort of water-proof case. I think I mentioned this before, but our plan is keeping 2-gallon ziplock baggies handy, and just putting the baggy over the device, and sticking your hand up into the bag to operate it. I think people use the same method for paper score sheets, but I'm a fair-weather shooter, and don't shoot in the rain

Incidentally, Kindle Fires are really nice for indoor usage. While a little expensive, and hard to read outdoors, they're a very nice size, and very readable. They don't require rooting, either. Just enable non-market applications in the Settings section, and you're ready to go. I swiped my wife's KF for a couple matches, until we switched to the NSTs.

[Steve Koski]

Stupid Practiscore question here:

I've created a dummy match, with shooters, stages, and squads. I want to sync up other devices (that are also on the same Wifi network). I put all of the devices on the Sync page, but they can't see each other. Even if I type in the 2A05 (or similar) code.

Any suggestions?