Shooting Accurately Yet Hitting No-Shoots

[Not-So-Mad Matt]

Lately I've been shooting accurately yet hitting non-threats. I'm not making the mental mistake of shooting the wrong target; I'm scoring down-zero hits (alphas) that happen to nick the overlapping non-threat. I don't feel like the non-threats are "in my head" at all; I just keep hitting them.

Am I just not giving the non-threats the proper respect? Could too much front-sight focus cause this?

[Sac Law Man]

Matt, I would suggest you clearly see the spot on the target you want to hit. Remember, the purpose of focusing on the front sight and not the target is to maintain your sight alignment, many people loose sight of this, and just watch the front sight but it is not aligned with the rear.

[DerrickJ]

I give the no shoots a little more room than I probably should, but I don't hit too many anymore. I'll take a C zone hit over an A that is going to flirt with the perf.

If you feel you are accurate, why not just find a place in the target that is a few inches off the obstructed alpha?

[DoubleL]

Pick a precise spot, like mentioned above. What I've tried lately is looking at the way the no shoot is aligned with the shoot target. I decide whether a vertical line or a horizontal line would be more helpful for a sight picture hold. Sort of like, if I get a sight picture past this point, dead no shoot. But I have to be on the ball with patience, visually, and not pull the trigger until I have the hold I desire.

[lynn jones]

trigger control.

[daves_not_here]

Criteria to "handle it" on a stage I'm using now:

One or more of the following, in order of priority:

1. Go for the head. It's a no brainer
   
2. If it's really a narrow for the down zero or A, for the distance, split the difference between the outer edge of the -1 or B/C and the edge of non-threat.
   
3. Slow waaaay down and ONLY LOOK AT WHERE I'M GOING TO HIT. Going for the head automatically makes me slow down.
   
4. Take the down one or B/C and risk the -0 or C/D.
   

This approach takes into account how accurate I am this week and helps fundamentals to take over.

Having this criteria also gives me more confidence because I have a plan on what to hit, not what I'm trying not to hit.

Hoping that you don't kill Kenny,

DNH

[Braxton1]

The easiest way to remember it, whether you're facing a target covered by a No-Shoot or obscured by hard cover:

Shoot for the center of the available target.

If you try to "ride the perf" in an attempt to get the A hit, you can do one of two things, both of which are bad:

You slow down in order to make the harder shot (burning time) or you keep hauling butt and nick the No-Shoot (dropping points).

Edited August 14, 2012 by Braxton1

[daves_not_here]

The easiest way to remember it...

Shoot for the center of the available target....

Braxton,

Thanks for making my number 2 approach easier to remember!

So now all I've got is

1. Shoot for the head - No Brainer
   
2. Shoot for the center of the available target
   

A lot less number two!

DNH

[Sin-ster]

Is it your first or second shot?

If first, you could be shooting "brown" as others suggest. Pick a spot clearly with your vision before going to the front sight.

If its your second shot, you may have a slight drift in your index during recoil. In my case, my weapon arm wanted to tense up and steer the whole of my gun/grip to the left a little bit. With pure front sight focus (having already picked a spot and hit it once), it was hard to detect while shooting. I kept calling good hits and like you, just breaking the perf on the No Shoot.

[benos]

Lately I've been shooting accurately yet hitting non-threats. I'm not making the mental mistake of shooting the wrong target; I'm scoring down-zero hits (alphas) that happen to nick the overlapping non-threat. I don't feel like the non-threats are "in my head" at all; I just keep hitting them.

Am I just not giving the non-threats the proper respect? Could too much front-sight focus cause this?

Not if you precisely locate exactly where you are going to shoot the target, before you bring your focus back to your front sight.

be

[HOA]

No shoots can draw lead to them.

[PROBIKE101]

friendlys are bullett magnets........ask me i know

[CocoBolo]

Nice oxymoron for a title. The bullet goes where the eyes are, quit looking at the no shoot.

I will agree that when the noshoot makes the shot difficult go for the head shot. This of course does not apply to shooting on the move, for those I'll stop, too risky at anything other than close.

[Not-So-Mad Matt]

Thanks, everyone, for all the input. It sounds like I'm indeed focusing on the front sight too early and "shooting brown" -- at least to some extent. It's frustrating to drop no points, take no make-up shots, and then find out there's a hit on a non-threat. (Shoot-throughs count in IDPA.)

[JCH]

Wow, as a total newb there is a lot mentioned in this thread that I haven't even thought about. I usually shoot for brown. Guess I need to start aiming smaller.

off to practice.

[Rckymtnshooter]

The white to brown line or black to brown with hardcover is an absolute magnet for my vision to go to. Try to visulize seeing something specific in the middle of the brown prior to shooting the target or stage as in the A/C perf line or the A in the middle of the A zone. Dry fire can be a help with this by practicing finding the spot on the partial targets that you want to shoot.

[GunBugBit]

Seems like this is a good kind of problem to have. You give yourself the freedom to shoot and you do so accurately. Be gentle with yourself in reining in what you shoot at and keep the elements that have allowed you to be accurate. You'll work this out, I'll bet.

[hunt_fish]

Clear your head of everything, especially anything related to "no-shoot." Even if you have to think about something completely random.

Shot a match a few weeks back with 12 targets and no-shoots between all of them - got to the last target and thought "I haven't hit a no-shoot yet!" - next minute => NO SHOOT!!!!!

Need to try to ignore them!

[Matt Griffin]

I tend to mentally overlay a circle of varying size on the target depending on conditions. There are two big caveats/tricks to that, though: the first is that you have to prepare (approach) the shot in such a way to generate those conditions, and then you have to execute the shot to remain within those conditions.

For the situation you're talking about, tight shots without hard frames to force your brain to avoid them, I like to pick a reasonable aiming point that gives me an acceptable chance of scoring the maximum, but allows for reasonable slop based on the target difficulty. Experience is key in this sort of estimation, you need to understand how well you shoot and how well you will likely shoot at that point in the stage. I certainly can't shoot at exactly the same speed and accuracy at the end of a 32 round stage than I can at the beginning, and conversely I can't reload as fast or move as fast as I can at the end. Understanding how you shoot is the key to optimizing how you shoot.

So, your scenario. At 5 yards without a no-shoot I want to see my front sight somewhat framed in my rear sight. At ten yards I want to see the top of my front near the top of my rear sight, the fiber dot not cut in half on either side. At fifteen I want the full dot, space showing on either side but not equal, and the tops roughly aligned. At 20 I want to verify alignment for .05 of a second while breaking the shot, I want good space on either side, the tops aligned, and only my trigger pull disturbing things. at 30 yards I want to slow that trigger pull down a bit, decrease the disturbance. At 50 yards I want to pull the trigger so smoothly that my conscious brain cannot even tell it's being pulled, my entire being is invested in keeping the sights aligned.

Figure out what your goal is, and you can find a trigger pull and sight picture that is appropriate for that goal. Do it often enough and your brain will start assigning those things based on what the eyes are seeing. At that point you get to take a vacation and worry about running, stopping, reloading, opening doors, etc. That's the big transition point.

[Torogi]

So, your scenario. At 5 yards without a no-shoot I want to see my front sight somewhat framed in my rear sight. At ten yards I want to see the top of my front near the top of my rear sight, the fiber dot not cut in half on either side. At fifteen I want the full dot, space showing on either side but not equal, and the tops roughly aligned. At 20 I want to verify alignment for .05 of a second while breaking the shot, I want good space on either side, the tops aligned, and only my trigger pull disturbing things. at 30 yards I want to slow that trigger pull down a bit, decrease the disturbance. At 50 yards I want to pull the trigger so smoothly that my conscious brain cannot even tell it's being pulled, my entire being is invested in keeping the sights aligned.

Matt, thank you for sharing this. When I started shooting 3 years ago, i didn't know this. As a new shooter then, it seems like every shot is 50 yds. I learned through bill drill & other drills that I dont need perfect sight alignment each time & varies in different distances, and again reading various books, it explained more into this in detail.

What experience will add is the ability to see those sights the (milli) second it satisfies your sight alignment and be able to break the next shot.

[g mac]

Pretend you're actually shooting to save someone's life, then you'll be more careful to ensure you shoot the bad guy

[Matt Griffin]

So, your scenario. At 5 yards without a no-shoot I want to see my front sight somewhat framed in my rear sight. At ten yards I want to see the top of my front near the top of my rear sight, the fiber dot not cut in half on either side. At fifteen I want the full dot, space showing on either side but not equal, and the tops roughly aligned. At 20 I want to verify alignment for .05 of a second while breaking the shot, I want good space on either side, the tops aligned, and only my trigger pull disturbing things. at 30 yards I want to slow that trigger pull down a bit, decrease the disturbance. At 50 yards I want to pull the trigger so smoothly that my conscious brain cannot even tell it's being pulled, my entire being is invested in keeping the sights aligned.

Matt, thank you for sharing this. When I started shooting 3 years ago, i didn't know this. As a new shooter then, it seems like every shot is 50 yds. I learned through bill drill & other drills that I dont need perfect sight alignment each time & varies in different distances, and again reading various books, it explained more into this in detail.

What experience will add is the ability to see those sights the (milli) second it satisfies your sight alignment and be able to break the next shot.

You're welcome, it took longer than 3 years for me to figure it out! :-)

[ricardo28]

Dont look at the white, only brown.. BEEP. Oh shoot why am i looking at the white, dont look at it. Stop looking at the white.... Dang i wasnt suppose to shoot at the white.

Usually why i shoot them...

[Chef J]

So, your scenario. At 5 yards without a no-shoot I want to see my front sight somewhat framed in my rear sight. At ten yards I want to see the top of my front near the top of my rear sight, the fiber dot not cut in half on either side. At fifteen I want the full dot, space showing on either side but not equal, and the tops roughly aligned. At 20 I want to verify alignment for .05 of a second while breaking the shot, I want good space on either side, the tops aligned, and only my trigger pull disturbing things. at 30 yards I want to slow that trigger pull down a bit, decrease the disturbance. At 50 yards I want to pull the trigger so smoothly that my conscious brain cannot even tell it's being pulled, my entire being is invested in keeping the sights aligned.

Matt, thank you for sharing this. When I started shooting 3 years ago, i didn't know this. As a new shooter then, it seems like every shot is 50 yds. I learned through bill drill & other drills that I dont need perfect sight alignment each time & varies in different distances, and again reading various books, it explained more into this in detail.

What experience will add is the ability to see those sights the (milli) second it satisfies your sight alignment and be able to break the next shot.

You're welcome, it took longer than 3 years for me to figure it out! :-)

Soo true, I had a friend really help me out with this as I have the tendency to go too fast when I shouldn't. It was almost painful at first to adjust my speed per target but the frustration of losing points because I couldn't slow down eventually (quickly) became something I had to look at and consciously work on.

[seanc]

I tend to mentally overlay a circle of varying size on the target depending on conditions. There are two big caveats/tricks to that, though: the first is that you have to prepare (approach) the shot in such a way to generate those conditions, and then you have to execute the shot to remain within those conditions.

For the situation you're talking about, tight shots without hard frames to force your brain to avoid them, I like to pick a reasonable aiming point that gives me an acceptable chance of scoring the maximum, but allows for reasonable slop based on the target difficulty. Experience is key in this sort of estimation, you need to understand how well you shoot and how well you will likely shoot at that point in the stage. I certainly can't shoot at exactly the same speed and accuracy at the end of a 32 round stage than I can at the beginning, and conversely I can't reload as fast or move as fast as I can at the end. Understanding how you shoot is the key to optimizing how you shoot.

So, your scenario. At 5 yards without a no-shoot I want to see my front sight somewhat framed in my rear sight. At ten yards I want to see the top of my front near the top of my rear sight, the fiber dot not cut in half on either side. At fifteen I want the full dot, space showing on either side but not equal, and the tops roughly aligned. At 20 I want to verify alignment for .05 of a second while breaking the shot, I want good space on either side, the tops aligned, and only my trigger pull disturbing things. at 30 yards I want to slow that trigger pull down a bit, decrease the disturbance. At 50 yards I want to pull the trigger so smoothly that my conscious brain cannot even tell it's being pulled, my entire being is invested in keeping the sights aligned.

Figure out what your goal is, and you can find a trigger pull and sight picture that is appropriate for that goal. Do it often enough and your brain will start assigning those things based on what the eyes are seeing. At that point you get to take a vacation and worry about running, stopping, reloading, opening doors, etc. That's the big transition point.

All this. For me its backwards though. I can start, stop, move, and reload way beyond my shooting ability.

I am getting better about regulating my shooting though but I definitely struggle with the it. The urge to go fast is there but accuracy flushes immediately when I ramp up.

The last club match I shot ran Tight SqueezeCM99-48. With a revolver I shot 59 points in 11.25 seconds(with a ~2.5 reload).

I could maybe shoot it 2 seconds faster taking some C's on the outside targets.

I felt really good about that run till I looked on cmcalc and saw it was 54%.

Then I felt really really bad...hah.

How you guys can shoot that thing in 6 or 7 seconds blows my mind.