IDPA Shooter, Becoming more involved in USPSA

[lc2hl]

First post, and I am sorry if this has been covered here before, but I wanted to get some thoughts from those who have transitioned from IDPA to USPSA, and what techniques learned in IDPA can hinder effective performance in USPSA. Are there skills that should be focused on in practice regiments that one would do differently while competing?

I have been shooting IDPA for a year, with a longer history of rifle comps. The exposures I have had with USPSA have been at the local club level, and being in the Houston area, I nearly always have a match going on every month. I have read Brian's book, and am applying the topics covered to both sports.

Obviously using cover, reloads, and the ability to break down the stage without a course description are key, but I am looking for subtleties that I feel I am missing.

Any thoughts or experiences would be appreciated as I plan on competing regularly in both sports.

[blind bat]

I shoot and enjoy both sports. I find USPSA helps more with developing raw shooting skill and shooting on the move. IDPA helps push the mental side of things. There isn't as much raw speed and shooting on the move in IDPA but there are lots of small details that you have keep straight in your head to smoothly navigate an IDPA CoF. I also like changing back and forth between the targets. They are just different enough to keep my visual/mental focus from getting sloppy.

Of course if I haven't shot IDPA in a while I find myself muttering, "don't drop the mag, don't drop the mag."

[bigfish]

When shooting uspsa you need to learn to do things that in idpa might get you a "failure to do right" penalty. Learning to "Game" stages in uspsa can really help bump you up a couple spots on certain stages. I am mostly a uspsa shooter but shoot the local idpa matche. One of the big things I see in idpa is people making up shots when they get a down 1 hit. In uspsa with hit factor scoring if its not a "D" zone hit you need to move on. Especially if your shooting major.

[lc2hl]

Making up shots is something I have gotten away from over time to increase speed in the course of fire while learning to call the shot. I think the footwork is also an area that is dramatically affecting me as there are no fault lines in IDPA. I recognize that I have to move more fluidly, but I am so used to utilizing cover that I have trained myself to enter cover in a specific way and using an index point, and while on auto pilot shooting USPSA, I inadvertently crowd walls / barrels and barricades subconsciously adding a great deal of time to my scores.

I have thankfully been really good at the ability to differentiate dropping full mags and stowing when in the appropriate game, and shooting for A’s is the same in both sports. I am sure I am missing more areas of concern, and will find them over time and continuous analysis.

[deacon12224]

I think your biggest challenge is going to be mostly the mental aspect of the USPSA game. IDPA stages are 18 rounds or less and are generally heavily scripted. In USPSA, you are going to be dealing with a lot of 32 round stages that can be shot in a dozen or more different ways. Figuring out your strategy, getting your plan and then visualizing and executing that plan is going to be your biggest challenge IMHO. Coming from IDPA, I presume you will be shooting Single Stack or Production, which means you also have to plan out 4 or 5 reloads on long stages.

Also, you might want to really practice reloads on the run during your dry fire practice. Most IDPA reloads are done standing still. In USPSA, if you are doing a standing reload, something has gone horribly wrong.

Edited August 14, 2012 by deacon12224

[lc2hl]

You are correct, I will be shooting SS Major and SS Minor, with the occasional Production rounds thrown in. I noticed yesterday during practice that I am not "exploding" out of position while reloading, and that is something I definitely need to work on. I have a hesitation while reloading, and that is something I need to address. The mental game is the one thing that I think will take the most effort to get under control. I am used to planning my shots so that I am in an opportune place to reload, and concentrating on when to reload as well as picking up the pace while moving may give me some issues when attempting to negotiate the course effectively.

On extended courses, I am figuring that efficiency is key, but without watching other shooters complete the course prior to firing myself, what are the key aspects of fluidly moving thru the stage? Should I focus on my strengths such as longer range shots, or focus on speed while negotiating?

[deacon12224]

If you are shooting mostly Single Stack, then the biggest place to gain points on your opponents is your reloads. If you shoot a major match of ten stages, you are probably going to be reloading 40 or 50 times. Even cutting a half second off of each reload will get you 25 seconds. That is huge. Working on reloads is not nearly as much fun as shooting holes in paper, but being dead solid on reloads is a great way to drastically improve your score.

I am only an upper B class shooter, so take my advise with a grain of salt, but for me, my most fluid stages and my fatest stages are those that I have well programmed in my mind prior to starting the stage. If at any point during the stage I have a moment of uncertainty, it is going to be a bad stage. I should never have to think, "What's next?" Being fast and fluid on a stage means never really having to engage your brain and make any decisions while shooting. You should be able to load your "program" in your head and the buzzer is the signal to run that program. At the end of my best stages, I always have a slight pang of anxiety that I must have missed something because I really don't remember the details of shooting the stage.

As far as what to focus on, I think most of the Zen gurus around here would say that you probably shouldn't focus on anything. If I ever "try" to do anything, i.e. shoot Alphas, shoot fast, hit my reloads, etc, my stage is crap.

[dogtired]

Plan reloads during movement, dropping mags can cause you to hesitate but a must. Try to engage as many targets as possible from a single spot/single mag, even if that means running past the obvious spot to engage more targets. Watch better shooters on how they plan/shoot their stage (don't watch me) and adapt their techniques or principles to your game.

[shooting for M]

Biggest thing for USPSA is to never stop moving. Easier said than done but if you watch a GM shoot they are in constant motion throughout the course.

[Seeker]

First let me start off by saying that I shoot both IDPA and USPSA. I also consider myself currently a mediocre shooter. I'm SharpShooter in IDPA ESP and C class in Single Stack. It has been only recently that I have actually taken my training seriously. All the advice all the posters have given about shooting USPSA have been dead on. To shoot USPSA competitively, one must develop accuracy with semi hidden targets at distances usually not found in practice or IDPA (25-30 yards) Complicated cof's Stages with two Texas stars and a polish plate rack etc. Add in some sprints across the field, and all of this must be performed at warp speed. A talented local shooter I know equated IDPA with NASCAR an USPSA with formula 1. I think it's a good analogy. For me, I decided to take the "wax on/wax off" approach. My target transitions sucked so I set up two targets @ 7 yards 1 yard apart. First with rim fire, then with center fire. Only a zones counted. "Finally" following the advice of Brian Enos, Flex et al, as well as a local master, with the patient of a saint. I saw my transition go from .44 to .21 in two weeks. Also I would dry fire this in my garage every night with a par time of .6 seconds for two (hits) each target while dry firing. Using Steve Andersons book, My 7yard live fire draw went from 1.4 seconds to 1.10 in the same two week period. Since Single Stack requies lots of reloads, I only practice loading while moving. I will now add movement to my live fire drill this week. I will set up an additional pair of targets 4-5 yard from the first pair. The drill will be to first shoot the 4 targets continuously without a reload then adding a reload in between the two pairs keeping the overall time the same. I guess what I'm getting at, is that by trying to perform/dominate "all" the required aspects of a USPSA field course at once, was causing overload, frustration and crappy stage scores. No one wants to hear "Alpha Mike No shoot" over and over again. So... break down the rudiments, Shooting accurately, shooting quick traditions. Speedy draw. recoil control. Running with your finger off the trigger and the muzzle in a safe direction. Shooting steel with confidence. etc. All take time and dedication. The learning the "best" way to break down a complicated COF can then be mastered. One must also learn to love the training because every 24 second stage run at a match is preceded by many hours of training repetitions.

If you can dominate all the necessary USPSA skills, transitioning to IDPA will be simple. All you have to add is shoot behind the blue barrels, wear the 5.11 vest, shoot to slide lock. And remember the difference between tactical priority and tactical sequence. That and following a completely scripted cof. Usually finding a more efficient way to shoot the stage is frowned upon.

[Cd662]

Understand how USPSA scoring works, don't just show up, shoot, and "hope for the best". Realize that unlike IDPA, the manner in which you shoot USPSA is not dictated to you. There is no hand holding in terms of missing, hitting no shoots, or procedural penalties. Stage planning is essential.

[lc2hl]

I am convinced that it is my movement (footwork) coupled with the mental aspect of the game (course breakdown)that is holding me back. The same in IDPA to a much lesser extent. Accuracy is there, but while attempting to speed up, I have been known to throw a few. My splits are averaging between .19-.21 consistently, and I have a sub 1 sec draw to hit within 7-10 yards accurately with a 1911 out of a Comp-Tac holster. I found relaxation was the cure. Transitions I am working on consistently, and I had a breakthrough the other night while moving; I am lowering my gun between positions. Big no no, and I have to work on that as well as that is a lot of time added up over courses of fire. I am fortunate to shoot with a handful of excellent shooters on a weekly basis, and get some good critique as well.

I fully comprehend the scoring issue as well. Actually that has never been an issue as I think it is pretty straightforward. Taking the advice above, I am going to focus on movement as well as stage planning for the near future in addition to my normal practice regiment. We shall see if that yields a dramatic improvement over the short period.

Thank you everyone, I appreciate the replies. If you can share any other thoughts, I would be most grateful.

[Matt Griffin]

I am convinced that it is my movement (footwork) coupled with the mental aspect of the game (course breakdown)that is holding me back. The same in IDPA to a much lesser extent. Accuracy is there, but while attempting to speed up, I have been known to throw a few. My splits are averaging between .19-.21 consistently, and I have a sub 1 sec draw to hit within 7-10 yards accurately with a 1911 out of a Comp-Tac holster. I found relaxation was the cure. Transitions I am working on consistently, and I had a breakthrough the other night while moving; I am lowering my gun between positions. Big no no, and I have to work on that as well as that is a lot of time added up over courses of fire. I am fortunate to shoot with a handful of excellent shooters on a weekly basis, and get some good critique as well.

I fully comprehend the scoring issue as well. Actually that has never been an issue as I think it is pretty straightforward. Taking the advice above, I am going to focus on movement as well as stage planning for the near future in addition to my normal practice regiment. We shall see if that yields a dramatic improvement over the short period.

Thank you everyone, I appreciate the replies. If you can share any other thoughts, I would be most grateful.

Your numbers are fine, no reason to worry about them. From this point on you need to think about things that happen between the shooting, not during. Figure out that you need to engage targets so that you are finishing in the most advantageous position to leave the shooting position. Figure out how to maximize the engagements from a position and how to properly time a reload. Figure out how to perform consistently no matter the target. That's the endpoint.

[JimM]

Thanks for your comments. I'm a newer IDPA/USPSA shooter and am fortunate to have well organized IDPA and USPSA matches at my local club. I appreciate the opportunity to shoot with others who have been around awhile and who are willing to share their experience. This summer I invested some time in "book learning", starting with Brian's ebook on kindle. The moral of the story is that I'm having alot of fun, whether I do well in a match or not, and I have a better idea of the path to improvement.

Jim

[lc2hl]

Your numbers are fine, no reason to worry about them. From this point on you need to think about things that happen between the shooting, not during. Figure out that you need to engage targets so that you are finishing in the most advantageous position to leave the shooting position. Figure out how to maximize the engagements from a position and how to properly time a reload. Figure out how to perform consistently no matter the target. That's the endpoint.

Thank you. I have been dry firing / reloading while moving thru the house (after the kids are in bed...) with post it notes all over the walls, and my wife is starting to think I am loosing it. I appreciate all of the valued comments and replies. I will keep on it and update at a later date.

Thanks!

[NicVerAZ]

First let me start off by saying that I shoot both IDPA and USPSA. I also consider myself currently a mediocre shooter. I'm SharpShooter in IDPA ESP and C class in Single Stack.

You are not a mediocre shooter. You shoot probably better than 99% of gun owners.

You are "slowly getting there"

I am currently throwing more IDPA matches in my regimen and dropping "steel night" games for a while, because I was learning bad habits: speed over accuracy.

I am UN in IDPA and am planning to classify in 2 saturdays. I am currently outscoring most Sharp Shooters, by taking my time and concentrating on 0's and going so-so fast. My goal is to become a faster IDPA shooter by building speed from there once I have built the habits.

I am currently a D in USPSA, due to my being too concentrating on speed and not on accuracy.

I have changed my approach there as well but the "all A's" strategy did not work so well during the last match. I scored among the highest points on a stage, yet my HF was terrible because I was way too slow. Shooting production does not help. Yet I do not intend to change that strategy yet, but work on smoothness, relax and start building speed once I have the fundamentals drilled in.

That said, on that last USPSA match I was about 65% from the top in a very competitive environment, which was an improvement over my usual 80% from the top and I would say that my new approach is probably responsible for it.

I am not going to completely credit IDPA for making me a better USPSA shooter, and vice versa (ever dropped a non-empty magazine in IDPA and hearing "wrong game"? I have).

It's all about the shooter. I like both games. I am going to look into ICORE, Steel Challenge, etc...