Scott_at_Vortex Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) Nice bearcave! I hope to play with the BDC this weekend. Did a quick comparison to a TR24....the eyebox is not quite as large/forgiving on the vortex, but it is pretty close; which says a lot. Because the TR24 is not picky at all. What I did initially notice yesterday playing around with 1X on the vortex was that it made objects seem smaller....I am talking about at close objects ~ 15 yard away. And with both eyes open it was a bit disorienting. Then I noticed the focus adjustment was turned all the way in (clockwise). I turned it out counter clockwise a bit and was able to tune the 1x so objects ~ 15 yards seemed truly 1x. I don't know if the focus ring is shipped from the factory turned in all the way, and I don't know if the focus ring also has the dual purpose if fine tuning @ 1x. I guess I will find out at the range when my distant targets seems blurry. As for the objects looking smaller at 1x i am noticing that too when objects are fairly close within the 15 yards as well.. Can anyone explain why that is? maybe slap some knowledge on me? Is it like that with all 1x scopes to some degree?.. it seems when I put it to about 1.25 then everything is almost spot on. If the diopter is not properly adjusted to the users eye the magnification will not be correct.This is true for all rifle scopes. On 1x scopes this is very important as we all want are scopes to be set at the true 1x. Any 1x scope (if a true 1x,which most are these days) can actually get below 1x and over 1x if the diopter is not properly set to the users eye. If you have the diopter turned too far in for your vision the scope will be less than 1x. If you have it too far out for your vision the scope will be above 1x. Generally we all think of the diopter as a reticle focus, which it basically is on riflescopes. However, with 1x scopes I recommend adjusting the diopter to set your scope to a true1x. Once you do this the reticle will also be in focus as this will certainly set your diopter exactly where it needs to be for your eye. Hope that makes sense. Best Regards Scott Edited July 23, 2014 by Scott_at_Vortex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ffgats Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 (edited) Scott, My problem is, If I set the diopter at 1x, the reticle is not the best and the target is not so clear, with a little magnification 1.2 or something its when the reticle and target are crisp. any advice on this. btw, I wear prescription glasses but not when Im shooting, basically Im far sighted. Edited August 8, 2014 by ffgats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Scott, My problem is, If I set the diopter at 1x, the reticle is not the best and the target is not so clear, with a little magnification 1.2 or something its when the reticle and target are crisp. any advice on this. btw, I wear prescription glasses but not when Im shooting, basically Im far sighted. This is what I see as well. When I have my x1 set to where it mimics a C-More my reticle is out of focus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 If your vision is not corrected to 20-20, then focusing the diopter for your vision will NOT result in a true 1x. Nature of the beast. Target clear at distance is more important that actual 1.000 magnification at the bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocHolliday1 Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 I don't have a long range background, so bear with me, but I was a little unsure of how to use the width of the hashes when looking through a friend's Vortex. Most BDC reticles have wider hashes for the longer hashes to maintain a constant wind hold. Not so with Vortex. So... looking at the subtensions, it seems the smaller hashes for the farther distances seem to be a standard width for the intended distance. 300 yard hash: 2.865 MOA * 1.047 inches per MOA * 3 (for 300 yards) = 8.99 inches 400 yard hash: 2.15 MOA * 1.047 inches per MOA * 4 (for 400 yards) = 9.00 inches 500 yard hash: 1.7 MOA * 1.047 inches per MOA * 5 (for 500 yards) = 8.90 inches 600 yard hash: 1.435 MOA * 1.047 inches per MOA * 6 (for 600 yards) = 9.01 inches So, it seems that each hash is exactly 9 inches at it's intended distance. So this may be helpful in holding the center of the target if you are shooting at an 8 or 10 inch plate. Is this the intention of the JM-1 reticle? Is this useful for 3-gun the way I am thinking? Did I even calculate this correctly? Thanks for the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethanolguy Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 I recently acquired a razor hd 1-6 with JM reticle and love it. I haven't shot any long distance yet but the smaller daylight bright dot is awesome. Couldn't ask for anything better, except maybe a little cheaper... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jukez Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Probably a stupid question but how do I adjust the Diopter on this scope.. (new guy).. its smaller than what my eye sees at 1x.. so like the person said before i have to set it at like 1.2ish to get closer to true 1x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAZZ Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 It may have already appeared somewhere in the last 16 pages and I may have missed it: I have been led to believe that the drops are calibrated for Jerry's match load, which is a 60grn VMax. Does anyone by any chance know at what velocity? I figure it would give me a good starting point. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Sierpina Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 The reticle information simply says "Works ideally with popular .223 / 5.56mm and .308 / 7.62mm loads" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 If your vision is not corrected to 20-20, then focusing the diopter for your vision will NOT result in a true 1x. Nature of the beast. Target clear at distance is more important that actual 1.000 magnification at the bottom. My vision cannot be corrected to 20/20 anymore. I also wear shooting glasses that are set up to focus about 6" in front of my front sight on my pistol. I have the diopter about a 1/4 to 1/2 tun off to the side, can't remember which way just now, I just adjust it until the reticule is clear. the target seems to also be pretty good. It may not be 1.0X at the bottom having done this, but it is better than anything else I've used by far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob01 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 It may have already appeared somewhere in the last 16 pages and I may have missed it: I have been led to believe that the drops are calibrated for Jerry's match load, which is a 60grn VMax. Does anyone by any chance know at what velocity? I figure it would give me a good starting point. Thanks It was the 60grn VMAX and I believe it was in the 3050fps velocity range but unless you are shooting that exact bullet it doesn't matter. What matters is the actual MOA come ups in the picture below of the reticle. Take your load and run it on a ballistic calculator and see where the MOA numbers come in with your load. In my load with the 200 yard zero the first line is 285, second is 375, third is 475 and I can't remember the last off the top of my head as I haven't used it. Then you can figure out the mid points as well to find your holds. It works very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonOfSpartans Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 It may have already appeared somewhere in the last 16 pages and I may have missed it: I have been led to believe that the drops are calibrated for Jerry's match load, which is a 60grn VMax. Does anyone by any chance know at what velocity? I figure it would give me a good starting point. Thanks It was the 60grn VMAX and I believe it was in the 3050fps velocity range but unless you are shooting that exact bullet it doesn't matter. What matters is the actual MOA come ups in the picture below of the reticle. Take your load and run it on a ballistic calculator and see where the MOA numbers come in with your load. In my load with the 200 yard zero the first line is 285, second is 375, third is 475 and I can't remember the last off the top of my head as I haven't used it. Then you can figure out the mid points as well to find your holds. It works very well. Bingo. Mine on a standard day under MY Zero Conditions in MY rifle and load are from a 50 yard zero. Then from the cross down it goes 197, 286, 378, 470 and 569. Then adjust for temp, altitude and wind as required......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAZZ Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I'm used to shooting a Nightforce with a MOA reticle where you have subtensions for every MOA--which has proven very precise. There's so much going on between say 3 and 4 hundred yards, and nothing in the scope to help you out--how do you guys use this reticle to effectively hit things in between the hashmarks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob01 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I'm used to shooting a Nightforce with a MOA reticle where you have subtensions for every MOA--which has proven very precise. There's so much going on between say 3 and 4 hundred yards, and nothing in the scope to help you out--how do you guys use this reticle to effectively hit things in between the hashmarks? Like any reticle it's about being able to break down the reticle. I wish I had my chart here with me at work but I don't. So from memory, I believe the center is about 335 yards for me between my first line 285 and second line 375 so if I have a 325 yard target i just hold center a litlle low. You have to remember that this reticle is made for 3 gun and the targets aren't sub MOA sized but at longer ranges like that they are good sized like 8-10" on the small end up to full IPSC silhouettes and you can easily set them where you need them in the reticle with practice. Figuring out your holds and practice will get the hits pretty easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinWolv Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) I concur with Rob. For example, I'm running 69gr zeroed at 200yards. On a nice 75deg day, that puts the first drop line at 284yd, 2nd drop at 378yd, and 3rd drop at 473y. Thus, anywhere from 275-325, I'm just going to hold at first line. 350, I'll hold top of plate with the first line. 375-400, I'll hold on with the 2nd line. 425-450, I would hold top of plate with 2nd line. 475-500, hold on the 3rd line. Instead of trying to find the perfect spot on the vertical drop line like you would with a MIL or MOA reticule, I find it easier to break up the targets to holding low plate, dead on the the plate, or high on the plate with the different lines. Break the target up into those 3 zones and use the corresponding line instead of trying to memorize yards. So, at 350, I'll remember to hold 1H, for first drop line high plate. And verifying your POI on actual targets out at distance instead of just relying on a ballistic table is important. Using Strelok+ with the truing feature confirmed and modified the table to give results of what the rounds I'm using are actually doing at distance. Just my two cents, so take it FWIW. Edited October 13, 2014 by AustinWolv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrt4me Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 For example, I'm running 69gr zeroed at 200yards. On a nice 75deg day, that puts the first drop line at 284yd, 2nd drop at 378yd, and 3rd drop at 473y. Thus, anywhere from 275-325, I'm just going to hold at first line. 350, I'll hold top of plate with the first line. 375-400, I'll hold on with the 2nd line. 425-450, I would hold top of plate with 2nd line. 475-500, hold on the 3rd line. Instead of trying to find the perfect spot on the vertical drop line like you would with a MIL or MOA reticule, I find it easier to break up the targets to holding low plate, dead on the plate, or high on the plate with the different lines. Break the target up into those 3 zones and use the corresponding line instead of trying to memorize yards. So, at 350, I'll remember to hold 1H, for first drop line high plate. And verifying your POI on actual targets out at distance instead of just relying on a ballistic table is important. Using Strelok+ with the truing feature confirmed and modified the table to give results of what the rounds I'm using are actually doing at distance. very good advice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 I am ordering one tomorrow but still don't know what to go with. I had a Bushnell 1-6.5 with the BDC reticle and I didn't like that the drop lines did not even come close to matching up to where the bullets were going. I think I want the mil reticle and I will just memorize the holds, but everyone on this thread seems to love the JM setup. ugh, what to do?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 Get the Strelok app and go through all the reticle choices with your preferred load to see which tickles your fancy or is easiest to memorize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 I have it and the app seems to fail at past 400 yards for me. I end up burning a lot of ammo guessing until I find the real POI point on my reticle. Maybe I'm going about it all wrong but I figure I can walk my shots onto the target and just note my dope with the mil reticle a lot easier than I can with the BDC if everything doesn't line up just right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willz Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 Received my new Razor 1x6 yesterday. Mounted in a LaRue SPR-E. I wont be able to sight in until next Monday. Scanning the area I'm very happy with the clarity of the glass. The switchview for it is on backorder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob01 Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 For the Vortex BDC reticle look at the MOA that each line represents and then take your ballistic program data from your load you are shooting and assign the line to the proper data. Simple. No wasted ammo. Example, the crosshair is a 200 yard zero and the first line is supposed to be 300. For my load it's actually 285. Second line is supposed to be 400 and for my load it's 375. Next line is supposed to be 500 and for me it's 475. See what i am saying? For Jerry's load the lines are 300, 400, 500 but that doesn;t work for mine but knowing what they are allows me to still make accurate holds. You just need to figure it out first and you need to have ballistic program data anyways with any reticle. below is the reticle break down for the MOA markings. I have a pic of the reticle printed out with the yard line for each line written next t them and laminated in my 3 gun log book. I have one for 55grn and 75grn bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Sierpina Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 I am ordering one tomorrow but still don't know what to go with. I had a Bushnell 1-6.5 with the BDC reticle and I didn't like that the drop lines did not even come close to matching up to where the bullets were going. I think I want the mil reticle and I will just memorize the holds, but everyone on this thread seems to love the JM setup. ugh, what to do?! To minimize the variation, sight in the appropriate mark at the farthest distance you have access to. I sight in at 300 and have no problems with targets out to 550 at Rocky Mountain 3 Gun. However, at that altitude, the 550 yard targets get the 500 yard hash mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob01 Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 That's another way to go about it. My buddy, who works for Vortex, zeros using the 400 yard hashmark at 400 yards and then inside that is not off enough to miss on 3 gun style targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 ^ I think that's what Dan S was getting at. Strelok has yet to fail me out to 500, but having your load and atmospheric inputs on the money is important to getting the most out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob01 Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 I know that is exactly what Dan was saying but I was just adding to his statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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