motosapiens Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 (edited) So without causing the dreaded thread lock that I see coming... Why can't we just read the rules, obey them and shoot the sport and enjoy it, instead of complaining about how it would be better if... Because the rules are currently being looked at and revised, so it is a good opportunity to make them less silly and more true to idpa's claimed objectives. Sorry, I'm not concerned that there's not a good place for 40SW single stack in IDPA. Shoot ESP and have fun You have entirely missed the point. It's not about 40 single-stack, but about 40 major (165 pf). It shouldn't make any diff whether a gun is singlestack or not (it doesn't for .45). Edited August 8, 2012 by motosapiens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMB Posted August 8, 2012 Author Share Posted August 8, 2012 So without causing the dreaded thread lock that I see coming... Why can't we just read the rules, obey them and shoot the sport and enjoy it, instead of complaining about how it would be better if... Because the rules are currently being looked at and revised, so it is a good opportunity to make them less silly and more true to idpa's claimed objectives. Sorry, I'm not concerned that there's not a good place for 40SW single stack in IDPA. Shoot ESP and have fun You have entirely missed the point. It's not about 40 single-stack, but about 40 major (165 pf). It shouldn't make any diff whether a gun is singlestack or not (it doesn't for .45). Excellent point moto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Crank it up and enjoy Mongo Like....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not-So-Mad Matt Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 IMHO the point of divisions should be to allow fair competition with most popular self-defense handguns; Revolvers, duty pistols such as those carried by LE, 1911's, etc... If that's the case, then what IDPA really needs is a full-fledged BUG division. It makes sense to me to limit capacity for competition, because ginormous magazines and huge fat grips are not what most people prefer to carry. It also makes sense to me that there would be different divisions for higher-recoil guns so they are not competing with lower-recoil guns. High-capacity magazines are a huge advantage for long strings of fire, which come up in competition far more than in real-life -- and their downsides don't matter there. Higher-recoil guns are presumably more effective in real life -- higher power factor is supposed to imply higher stopping power -- so they can either get their own division, or they can get their own scoring. In IDPA, it wouldn't be difficult at all to give major power factors a different points-down factor, instead of multiplying all points down by 0.5. What doesn't make sense to me is why the most popular Law Enforcement cartridge (.40) is thrown in with the low-recoil divisions, when it is clearly not low recoil with commercial ammo. [...] To me, adding 8-round 40's at 165 pf to CDP has the positive effect of encouraging .40 owners to practice and compete with full-power ammo. I don't see any negative effects. I agree completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMB Posted June 25, 2016 Author Share Posted June 25, 2016 Bringing this one back. With all the rule changes, isn't it time we start looking at allowing .40 major in CDP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeedrinkerinNC Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 Is the Sig P220 45ACP legal for CDP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMB Posted June 25, 2016 Author Share Posted June 25, 2016 I believe it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Yes, I've shot a Sig P220 in CDP a few times, it is legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMB Posted June 27, 2016 Author Share Posted June 27, 2016 I think IDPA would be doing themselves a favor by allowing .40 major in CDP. I am sure there are shooters out there that would love to shoot CDP but for one reason or another can't justify or afford another gun, not to mention the increase in cost of ammunition for .45. Let's go HQ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racknrider Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 I'm all for 40 in CDP. Then I can run the same gun for CDP and ESP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v1911 Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 I think it's been argued that allowing .40 in CDP would kill the .45. But if I were a gamer, what is going to be more of a powder puff load, .40 or .45? Capacity wouldn't matter because that's already defined by the division. But I would see a number of USPSA shooter getting additional trigger time with IDPA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 I think it's been argued that allowing .40 in CDP would kill the .45. But if I were a gamer, what is going to be more of a powder puff load, .40 or .45? Capacity wouldn't matter because that's already defined by the division. But I would see a number of USPSA shooter getting additional trigger time with IDPA. Yeah, clearly 40 hasn't killed off the 45 in uspsa singlestack division. It's funny to see my 4 yr old posts in this thread from back before I lost interest in IDPA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racknrider Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 I think it's been argued that allowing .40 in CDP would kill the .45. But if I were a gamer, what is going to be more of a powder puff load, .40 or .45? Capacity wouldn't matter because that's already defined by the division. But I would see a number of USPSA shooter getting additional trigger time with IDPA. Yeah, clearly 40 hasn't killed off the 45 in uspsa singlestack division. It's funny to see my 4 yr old posts in this thread from back before I lost interest in IDPA. Just proves that it's a good idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrswanson1 Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Bringing this one back. With all the rule changes, isn't it time we start looking at allowing .40 major in CDP? Why is 45 ACP the only round allowed? The rules used to stipulate 45 ACP or better. So my 10mm 1911 is not longer allowed in CDP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Bringing this one back. With all the rule changes, isn't it time we start looking at allowing .40 major in CDP? Why is 45 ACP the only round allowed? The rules used to stipulate 45 ACP or better. So my 10mm 1911 is not longer allowed in CDP. 10mm is not better than 45. the only thing better than 45 is 50bmg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrswanson1 Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Bringing this one back. With all the rule changes, isn't it time we start looking at allowing .40 major in CDP? Why is 45 ACP the only round allowed? The rules used to stipulate 45 ACP or better. So my 10mm 1911 is not longer allowed in CDP. 10mm is not better than 45. the only thing better than 45 is 50bmg. 10mm would have been the original 1911 chambering had it been around when JMB was designing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Well, there WAS a .41 ACP about 1903 or 1904. They might have made as many as three guns before (I suspect) they saw the Thompson LaGarde report and knew the cavalry clique was going to demand a return to .45. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 .40 is just about 10mm.... hahaha 10.1 or something. I too say allow 40 major in cdp. It's already "not single stack" in that I've shot a Glock 21sf, Glock 41 and Sig P220 in the division. So to say it needs to be .45 only for the benefit of the 1911 shooters is not a valid argument. You'd sure start seeing a lot more ST/VI guns in IDPA. Or more people using a "do-it-all" Glock 35 that had a major/minor/magwell/nomagwell set up to run across a really large number of divisions and sports in idpa, uspsa, gssf, 3gun, steel challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMB Posted June 30, 2016 Author Share Posted June 30, 2016 (edited) Defiantly agree with Rowdy on this one. I don't see the negative impact on the sport or division. It was clearly intended to be a single stack division in the beginning IMO. Since it obviously is not a 1911 only division lets open it up to .40 major. Lets grow the sport and encourage more shooters to try it out. If a person has multiple options with one firearm I think that is a win win. Edited June 30, 2016 by buller01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgj3 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Because Bill said so.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMB Posted June 30, 2016 Author Share Posted June 30, 2016 Well he's wrong. IDPA needs to listen to the members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
want2race Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Given equal pf, the advantage goes to the .45. Larger scoring diameter. I shoot .40 180gr at 170 pf and .45 185gr at 170pf. Both feel very similar. I would shoot 40 in CDP because of the brass is easier for me to get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 (edited) As I'm fond of saying when working a match and being asked to look closer at a hole in a target, "would you like the same result if this was a no-shoot?". Sometimes the larger diameter cuts in a direction not to your favor. -Make CDP officially a 1911 platform division, major power factor. Any caliber not 9x19 can play so as to allow 38 super, 40 and 45 chambered single stack 1911 guns, no change in capacity, all calibers equal rounds. But metal framed, 1911 style, single stack only guns. -Make CDP the major pf division, regardless of style of pistol, limiting round count again to 8 for the benefit of the 1911 platform guns. Same thing with allowing 38 super, 357 sig, 40, 10mm and 45 to play. And of course start conditions for the different platforms to reflect their design and safety. The latter option allows more people to play. The first option is a little more open in some ways, but more strict in others than now. I think I could accept either. Edited July 1, 2016 by rowdyb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
want2race Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 I am much more likely to hit the -0 or -3 perf than a no shoot perf. I like your first option. Make it the major of 1911 division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrswanson1 Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Because Bill said so.... Bill lost IDPA to Joyce in the divorce... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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