.40 Major in CDP

[GMB]

Why not, would like to run my Trojan in CDP if they allowed .40 in major.

[GmanCdp]

Search it..40 cal in CDP..there have been several topics and several of them got closed...

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46018&hl=40%20cal%20in%20cdp&st=0

from 2004

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=18487&st=0&p=217424&hl=40%20cal%20in%20cdp&fromsearch=1entry217424

From 2009

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=92107&st=0&p=1056782&hl=40%20cal%20in%20cdp&fromsearch=1entry1056782

[19852]

I agree, but it isn't allowed. CDP is .45 ACP only. In my opinion CDP should be governed by PF just like the other divisions.

[Fabzz613]

I agree with CDP being .45 only.

It's makes sure there is alwase a place for the classic 45 1911. And everybody is shooting relatively the same equipment so it's nice and fair.

If you dropped it to PF only how quickly people would switch over and start shooting .40s in major and it would end up dominated bye them because nobody would want to shoot there big 45 against these guys.

What I think should be done is create a division that is major ESP.with .40 and up And everybody is happy But that's for the tiger team to decide.

[motosapiens]

If you dropped it to PF only how quickly people would switch over and start shooting .40s in major and it would end up dominated bye them because nobody would want to shoot there big 45 against these guys.

As long as the capacity remains at 8, I can't see any conceivable advantage to shooting 40 over 45 in CDP. I would guess people would just shoot whichever they own.

You make it sound like the 1911 is some defective crippled POS that needs affirmative action programs in order to be competitive. I don't think that is the case. I think it would be more realistic, and in the spirit of the whole 'defense' thing to provide incentive for .40 owners to shoot major rather than watered-down girly creampuff rounds. Doesn't make too much diff to me tho whether that's in a hypothetical esp major or cdp.

[GMB]

There is no advantage in shooting .40 vs .45 at major PF. I would like to see the change to 1911/single stack only in CDP. I shoot .40 because it is the best all around choice for the diffrent divisions I shoot and the most cost effective. Just say yes!!!!! If IDPA started recognizing major and minor in the diffrent divisions it would create a scoring issue for them.

[wgj3]

This one is simple. CDP is for 1911's. "1911's" are .45's; all the other stuff has a place in other divisions. And, you are welcome to shoot your other stuff (Glock, M&P, etc.) in CDP as long as it's .45. It's one of the first requirements of the division. Just play the game with the rules as written.

(As an aside, I do not completely agree with this, but it is how the rules were written for the game. And, regardless of how much the game is referred to as "defensive"; it's still a game.)

Edited August 7, 2012 by wgj3

[GMB]

It is time to embrace change. CDP was originally intended for the 1911 in .45 ACP, again I say open it up to .40 and make the newly formed division ECDP (Enhanced Custom Defense Pistol). Oh yea!!

Edited August 7, 2012 by buller01

[motosapiens]

This one is simple. CDP is for 1911's. "1911's" are .45's;

I disagree with all 3 of the above statements.

It's not simple (apparently).

CDP is for any 45, not just 1911.

1911's come in a variety of calibers, including 9mm, 40, 45, 10mm and probably others.

Edited August 7, 2012 by motosapiens

[Not-So-Mad Matt]

We should probably ask why we have divisions at all -- and whether divisions are the best way to address the problems they were meant to address.

If you believe that the .45 ACP is a man-stopper, and that eight rounds is enough for most self-defense scenarios, but the shooting sports don't reward that kind of stopping power and do penalize that low capacity, then you need to do something, or good self-defense pistols will go unused in your defensive-pistol sport.

Major and minor were originally defined in terms of momentum, rather than energy, specifically to reward .45s, but the game rewarded high-capacity even more, so shooters switched to heavy-but-small-caliber rounds. With CDP's eight-round capacity limit though, I don't see any reason to disallow .40s. (I'm sure most people would initially disagree, but I also don't see any problem to limiting capacity to eight or even six in all the divisions. It's not like we're loading 17+1 in full-size 9mm pistols right now.)

[GOF]

CDP is intended for .45 ACP. I think the original intention was to have a place where 1911s could be competitive, but with Glocks, HDs and M&Ps showing up (and winning)I guess there's not much that IDPA can do about that other then to keep CDP to .45 ACP only. Unless, if they truly want to make CDP the last refuge of the 1911 .45 ACP, then maybe the Tiger teams could ban anything other than a Single Stack 1911 45 ACP.

I do think that any firearm that passes the size/weight/etc. requirement, and can be loaded to SAAMI safe 165 PF (10mm, .40 S&W, .357 SIG) should be allowed. But, I don't make the Rules.

[motosapiens]

We should probably ask why we have divisions at all -- and whether divisions are the best way to address the problems they were meant to address.

Good point.

IMHO the point of divisions should be to allow fair competition with *most* popular self-defense handguns; Revolvers, duty pistols such as those carried by LE, 1911's, etc...

It makes sense to me to limit capacity for competition, because ginormous magazines and huge fat grips are not what most people prefer to carry. It also makes sense to me that there would be different divisions for higher-recoil guns so they are not competing with lower-recoil guns.

What doesn't make sense to me is why the most popular Law Enforcement cartridge (.40) is thrown in with the low-recoil divisions, when it is clearly not low recoil with commercial ammo. Sure, you can load them light, but you could also do the same thing with 45 (and many people do). I own both, and there is no doubt that the recoil of a .40 is in the same league as a .45. Many people even say they find factory .40 harder to control than factory .45. Clearly, both are much closer to each other in terms of recoil than they are to 9mm.

To me, adding 8-round 40's at 165 pf to CDP has the positive effect of encouraging .40 owners to practice and compete with full-power ammo. I don't see any negative effects. I know that for now I would use the same gun I use for SSP (cz 75b in 40), and load it to major and shoot CDP if it were allowed. I still think .45 has some advantages due to heavier bullets, lower pressures, ubiquity of very nice 5" barrel single-action guns, etc...

OTOH, the current rule is a good excuse to buy a 1911 (which I did, lol).

[motosapiens]

CDP is intended for .45 ACP. I think the original intention was to have a place where 1911s could be competitive, but with Glocks, HDs and M&Ps showing up (and winning)I guess there's not much that IDPA can do about that other then to keep CDP to .45 ACP only.

Do you think people are winning with glocks, and m&p's because they are better competitive guns? (I don't) Or do you think they are just better shooters who happen to own those guns, either because they're sponsored, or because plastic guns are cheaper? Idaho is pretty backwards, but here we see a LOT of people competing with 1911's. I just don't see how there can be a much better 8-round cdp gun than a good 1911, but not everyone owns one.

[GOF]

Motosapiens... look at the scores from major Sanctioned Matches. Then find what the winners were using. There are some 1911 shooters who do well. There are others running Glocks or M&Ps that do equally well, or better.... especially your sponsored pros.

I shoot a M&P standard 4.5 inch gun (with trigger job and new sights). I did well with it the last time I shot it in a 250+ shooter sanctioned match a few years ago (I'm focussed on revolver now). Shooting CDP/EX, I won that Div/Class by 15 seconds, beat a few Masters, and finished 4th overall in CDP. That doesn't mean the M&P is best, it just means it's best for me.

There are CDP guns that aren't 1911s that compete well. I think reliability is one factor, and you can get a consistent trigger pull that will rival a 1911.

[caspian guy]

Just as an aside, once a long time ago (2001 or 2002 can't remember), 10mm auto was allowed in CDP. I don't remember the rational for removing it. But if they took it out back then I just can't see them adding .40 now.

[jar]

What doesn't make sense to me is why the most popular Law Enforcement cartridge (.40) is thrown in with the low-recoil divisions, when it is clearly not low recoil with commercial ammo. Sure, you can load them light, but you could also do the same thing with 45 (and many people do). I own both, and there is no doubt that the recoil of a .40 is in the same league as a .45. Many people even say they find factory .40 harder to control than factory .45. Clearly, both are much closer to each other in terms of recoil than they are to 9mm.

To me, adding 8-round 40's at 165 pf to CDP has the positive effect of encouraging .40 owners to practice and compete with full-power ammo. I don't see any negative effects. I know that for now I would use the same gun I use for SSP (cz 75b in 40), and load it to major and shoot CDP if it were allowed. I still think .45 has some advantages due to heavier bullets, lower pressures, ubiquity of very nice 5" barrel single-action guns, etc...

This. The point of divisions should be to have a competitive home for anything someone might want to shoot. The only gun I can think of that has nowhere to be competitive in USPSA is the 9mm Browning High Power. In IDPA on the other hand, anything that shoots major PF and isn't a 45 gets screwed.

[GmanCdp]

Tripp makes 40 cal 9rnd mags that will fit in the box and will work fine in ESP..

Just sayin..45acp at 165 PF is not a full power load as in the same for the 40 cal at 165pf..

[GMB]

It's an easy fix, make it a .40 cal or larger diameter bullet required for major PF and open it up and to keep it true to the 1911 fan base limit it to 1911 style only firearms. Do the Tripp 9rd mags run reliably with factory length ammo?

[Merlin Orr]

I love CDP and I ain't skeered of no .40....or 10mm (now There is a powerful cartridge in factory loading).

[IdahoShooter]

I love CDP and I ain't skeered of no .40....or 10mm (now There is a powerful cartridge in factory loading).

I agree with Merlin... I love CDP and ain't scared of them other brands.

Recoil is recoil, once you learn what it is, it doesn't matter if it's 9mm or 45.

So without causing the dreaded thread lock that I see coming... Why can't we just read the rules, obey them and shoot the sport and enjoy it, instead of complaining about how it would be better if...

It would be better if I could shoot down 0 for the entire match, and not miss a reload, and not hit a no shoot and shoot the fastest time of the day... And none of those have a thing to do with the caliber of the gun or the division that I am shooting in.

[Chills1994]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, just whittle IDPA down to 4 divisions. Two for semi-autos and two for revolver.

MAJSAP would be the major power factor semi auto pistol division. That would be .357 Sig, .40S&W, .41 AE, 10mm, .400Corbon, .45ACP, .50 AE, ..50GI, etc, loaded 8+1 at major PF or higher.

MINSAP, mainly your 9mm's, but .40's and etc. could play loaded to 10+1 at minor PF.

MAJREV, regardless if moonclipped or speedloader fed, major PF like the 625's and 610's

MINREV, can be loaded either way, mainly your 686's loaded with .38's

Of course will keep some weight standards on the guns ( I seriously doubt anybody CCW's a Desert Eagle.)

[Fabzz613]

Just as an aside, once a long time ago (2001 or 2002 can't remember), 10mm auto was allowed in CDP. I don't remember the rational for removing it. But if they took it out back then I just can't see them adding .40 now.

The reason I herd was that somebody told bill wilson that the recoil of the 10mm was less then the 45 and that the division would become overwhelmed with 10mm guns and Wilson combat didn't make one at the time so he got rid of it.

[GmanCdp]

Crank it up and enjoy

[GForceLizard]

My guess is the Bill Wilson loves the 45ACP 1911 and made a place just for it. I'm ok with that. I've never seen a match where revolvers outnumbered 45ACP. It isn't like the division is dying. Sorry, I'm not concerned that there's not a good place for 40SW single stack in IDPA. Shoot ESP and have fun.

[GMB]

No I want to shoot CDP with my .40, gosh darn it. I promise those of us that use a .40 1911 in CDP will load to Major PF and only use 8rd mags. I dont see the issue, there is a 9mm minimum caliber requirement for ESP and SSP. So make the new minimum for CDP .40.