Barrel for 3 Gun build

[zhunter]

OK, silly question from a guy buying parts to build 1st rifle.

What is the point of a chrome lined barrel?

[Alaskapopo]

OK, silly question from a guy buying parts to build 1st rifle.

What is the point of a chrome lined barrel?

For three gun stainless is better due to the greater accuracy. For a fighting or work rifle or general plinker chrome is good. Chrome lining resists corrosion better and is easier to clean and maintain. Chrome lined barrels last a lot longer.

Pat

[zhunter]

OK, silly question from a guy buying parts to build 1st rifle.

What is the point of a chrome lined barrel?

For three gun stainless is better due to the greater accuracy. For a fighting or work rifle or general plinker chrome is good. Chrome lining resists corrosion better and is easier to clean and maintain. Chrome lined barrels last a lot longer.

Pat

Thanks, no need for Chrome for my needs then

ZH

[dmshozer1]

That Wilson barrel weighs 57 ounches which is way too heavy. You want your barrel weight to be about 30 to 35 ounches.

The DPMS barrel is also a pig. Find a medium contour barrel like this.

http://www.jprifles.com/1.4.1_barrel.php

or this.

http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?item_id=b-18lw-556&cat=158&page=1&search=&since=&status=&title=

Both of my "DPMS PIGS" shoot 1 moa out to 400 yds with 55 Noslers.

I do not have a range to shoot any farther.

Got them from Midway two years ago for $165 each.

Don't get caught up in the "trend" for light weight barrels and AR's

Way to wippy in my opinion.

For starters the barrels shown are not a light weight design but rather medium contour barrels which are perfect for the game. The heavy barrels while they are accurate are way way to heavy to shoot fast and well on 99% of the stages we typically shoot in this sport. There are a lot more shots at 100 and in than at 400.

Pat

They might be to heavy for you but not for me.

Different strokes for different folks.

True but there is a reason most shooters especially the pro's are not lugging those heavy barrels around and their winning. I tried a heavy barrel for a time and found you give up way too much on the sort to medium course for the time you may gain on the long ones.

That is your opinion and I have mine.

That is what a forum is all about.

Have a good day.

[TMC]

Model 1 Sales - $185

I only got 1 upper from Model 1 sales way back when and it had head space issues. I would just say no to this company.

pat

Don't tell my Limited rifle, 5th at Nationals and 8% behind Chris

[djeffers]

I ordered one from Nordic and it should be in tomorrow! They support the sport and Ken has been good to me ....also time to ditch the mid-length gas.

[dmshozer1]

That Wilson barrel weighs 57 ounches which is way too heavy. You want your barrel weight to be about 30 to 35 ounches.

The DPMS barrel is also a pig. Find a medium contour barrel like this.

http://www.jprifles.com/1.4.1_barrel.php

or this.

http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?item_id=b-18lw-556&cat=158&page=1&search=&since=&status=&title=

Both of my "DPMS PIGS" shoot 1 moa out to 400 yds with 55 Noslers.

I do not have a range to shoot any farther.

Got them from Midway two years ago for $165 each.

Don't get caught up in the "trend" for light weight barrels and AR's

Way to wippy in my opinion.

For starters the barrels shown are not a light weight design but rather medium contour barrels which are perfect for the game. The heavy barrels while they are accurate are way way to heavy to shoot fast and well on 99% of the stages we typically shoot in this sport. There are a lot more shots at 100 and in than at 400.

Pat

They might be to heavy for you but not for me.

Different strokes for different folks.

True but there is a reason most shooters especially the pro's are not lugging those heavy barrels around and their winning. I tried a heavy barrel for a time and found you give up way too much on the sort to medium course for the time you may gain on the long ones.

That is your opinion and I have mine.

That is what a forum is all about.

Have a good day.

After thinking about it, I have to disagree with you about long range stages not being as important as the 15 to 30 second hosers.

In my experience with myself and watching others, I have watched lots of people take themselves out of competition by timing out on the long range stages with failure to engage and miss penalties.

My opinon.

[dmshozer1]

That Wilson barrel weighs 57 ounches which is way too heavy. You want your barrel weight to be about 30 to 35 ounches.

The DPMS barrel is also a pig. Find a medium contour barrel like this.

http://www.jprifles.com/1.4.1_barrel.php

or this.

http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?item_id=b-18lw-556&cat=158&page=1&search=&since=&status=&title=

Both of my "DPMS PIGS" shoot 1 moa out to 400 yds with 55 Noslers.

I do not have a range to shoot any farther.

Got them from Midway two years ago for $165 each.

Don't get caught up in the "trend" for light weight barrels and AR's

Way to wippy in my opinion.

For starters the barrels shown are not a light weight design but rather medium contour barrels which are perfect for the game. The heavy barrels while they are accurate are way way to heavy to shoot fast and well on 99% of the stages we typically shoot in this sport. There are a lot more shots at 100 and in than at 400.

Pat

They might be to heavy for you but not for me.

Different strokes for different folks.

True but there is a reason most shooters especially the pro's are not lugging those heavy barrels around and their winning. I tried a heavy barrel for a time and found you give up way too much on the sort to medium course for the time you may gain on the long ones.

That is your opinion and I have mine.

That is what a forum is all about.

Have a good day.

After thinking about it, I have to disagree with you about long range stages not being as important as the 15 to 30 second hosers.

In my experience with myself and watching others, I have watched lots of people take themselves out of competition by timing out on the long range stages with failure to engage and miss penalties.

My opinon.

I forgot to tell you.

Great videos.

Looks like you put on some fun matches!

Have a good one.

[Sleepswithdogs]

Hard to think that the reason people are timing out or getting quick hits on longer range shots is a bit of extra weight on the barrel. I'd be more apt to think that it was for two basic reasons; because they were not practiced shots and the longer shots exposed it, and/or they were using poor sights/optics and inaccurate weapons.

Some people like heavy barrels, some people like lite barrels. What ever floats your boat. Been hearing a lot of people say good things about the Mark 12 barrel, and of course Nordic, JP, Criterion, etc., are hard to beat. Faith/confidence due to practice is worth a lot come match time regardless of which you are running.

Tar

Edited August 1, 2012 by Sleepswithdogs

[benny hill]

Heads up guys, the criterion chrome lined barrels are a subsidiary of creiger barrels and in testing them jerry m. reported 2" groups @ 400yds and I got 1 1/2 groups @ 200yds These chromed line barrels are accurate.

[Sleepswithdogs]

Heads up guys, the criterion chrome lined barrels are a subsidiary of creiger barrels and in testing them jerry m. reported 2" groups @ 400yds and I got 1 1/2 groups @ 200yds These chromed line barrels are accurate.

Benny, won't be too long and I'll be in the market for a chrome lined barrel and I'll sure give this one a try.

Tar

[jr. 3 gunner]

Dumb question but where can I get a Criterion other than direct from them? If someone could give me a link that would be very appreciated.

Thanks

[dlouie87]

Not to thread hijack, but what do you guys think about this barrel from Daniel's Defense:

- Chrome Moly Vanadium Steel, Cold Hammer Forged, 1:7 twist, 16″ Lightweight Profile, Mid-length Gas System, Chrome Lined, MP tested, and Mil-Spec Heavy Phosphate coated

It's off of this https://danieldefense.com/upper-receiver-groups/mid-length-urg/daniel-defense-m4-urg-v7-lightweight.html

-Dan

[Sleepswithdogs]

Not to thread hijack, but what do you guys think about this barrel from Daniel's Defense:

- Chrome Moly Vanadium Steel, Cold Hammer Forged, 1:7 twist, 16″ Lightweight Profile, Mid-length Gas System, Chrome Lined, MP tested, and Mil-Spec Heavy Phosphate coated

It's off of this https://danieldefense.com/upper-receiver-groups/mid-length-urg/daniel-defense-m4-urg-v7-lightweight.html

-Dan

Looks like a very good barrel for all around shooting, plinking, hunting and home defense. DD has an excellent reputation for quality. I'm sure one of those Daniel or Taran or one of a thousand other people could take it and make me look like a red head step child.

If you were looking for a 3gun barrel this would not be a first choice by all that many. I'd take a guess and think it might have a 5.56 chamber too. A typical 3gun barrel is SS, mid weight with a rifle length gas system, around 18", and your more likely to find a 1:8 twist with a Wylde chamber.

Tar

Edited August 1, 2012 by Sleepswithdogs

[Alaskapopo]

That Wilson barrel weighs 57 ounches which is way too heavy. You want your barrel weight to be about 30 to 35 ounches.

The DPMS barrel is also a pig. Find a medium contour barrel like this.

http://www.jprifles.com/1.4.1_barrel.php

or this.

http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?item_id=b-18lw-556&cat=158&page=1&search=&since=&status=&title=

Both of my "DPMS PIGS" shoot 1 moa out to 400 yds with 55 Noslers.

I do not have a range to shoot any farther.

Got them from Midway two years ago for $165 each.

Don't get caught up in the "trend" for light weight barrels and AR's

Way to wippy in my opinion.

For starters the barrels shown are not a light weight design but rather medium contour barrels which are perfect for the game. The heavy barrels while they are accurate are way way to heavy to shoot fast and well on 99% of the stages we typically shoot in this sport. There are a lot more shots at 100 and in than at 400.

Pat

They might be to heavy for you but not for me.

Different strokes for different folks.

True but there is a reason most shooters especially the pro's are not lugging those heavy barrels around and their winning. I tried a heavy barrel for a time and found you give up way too much on the sort to medium course for the time you may gain on the long ones.

That is your opinion and I have mine.

That is what a forum is all about.

Have a good day.

After thinking about it, I have to disagree with you about long range stages not being as important as the 15 to 30 second hosers.

In my experience with myself and watching others, I have watched lots of people take themselves out of competition by timing out on the long range stages with failure to engage and miss penalties.

My opinon.

No offense was meant earlier. What it comes down to is the stages your shooting at your club and the way its scored. If your using stage points then the worst anyone could do on a long stage is 0 points. However if you keep it at straight time then the long rifle stages become the match pretty much. I have been a friend of mine who is an all around better shooter once in a while at a club where they don't do stage points and he had a bad long range rifle and the difference in time gave me the match. However if we had beenshooting stage points those times he would have easliy beat me out. As for stage design If you have mostly close in stages with only 1 or 2 long range (small targets at medium range works too)then that heavy barrel is going to be more of a hurt than a help. However if your at a club that puts most of its emphasis on long range shooting then it may be a help. I will agree with the other poster however. With 4 moa targets what usually is causing misses is the shooter not knowing his dope or just lack of skill or a combination of the two.

I have to learn to let people do what they want to do without saying anything. I had a friend who is an open shooter who wanted to mount his red dot in the primary position at 12 oclock and put his scope in a 45 degree cant. His reasoning was that most shots are close and fast and you would have time on the long shots to cant the rifle. I told him that would cause all kinds of issues with his long range shooting compensating for cant. Turns out he could not get the system to work. I should have just let him figure it out for himself.

Pat

Edited August 1, 2012 by Alaskapopo

[Sleepswithdogs]

edit

Edited August 1, 2012 by Sleepswithdogs

[Akkid17]

Has anyone looked at the rainier match barrels? The 18" SPR looks pretty decent and it close to the Nordic in just about everything including price.

Thoughts?

[Alaskapopo]

Heads up guys, the criterion chrome lined barrels are a subsidiary of creiger barrels and in testing them jerry m. reported 2" groups @ 400yds and I got 1 1/2 groups @ 200yds These chromed line barrels are accurate.

Thanks for the heads up I may have to give one a try. Can you get them in an 18 inch length with a rifle gas system?

Pat

[jr. 3 gunner]

Am I just confused or do most barrels come with a gas tube?

[Stlhead]

It does not matter how well the barrel shoots, or or how long it lasts, or how much it costs. All that matters is how hard it gets spammed on gun forums. I often read how one barrel is better than another, or that chrome lined is the best (or worst), people seem to be all over the place, and I have yet to see a new barrel that was not obviously defective, that was not competitive in three gun. The targets that we shoot at are BIG, as long as the gun runs, and shoots 2 moa, and is repeatable. I bet that many people would not notice a different brand of barrel if the contour was similar. The internet is full of .5 MOA or better AR's, but I have never seen anyone one not require extra rifle shots on any stage I have RO'ed at Ironman. I would submit to you that the group size of your rifle has no bearing on your performance at a three gun match unless it can't hold 2" at 100, and as such you could put nearly any barrel on your rifle. Will I be running out to buy the cheapest barrel I can find for next years new limited upper? Hell no, what kind of fun is it to do that? Then I would not be able to participate in threads like this where I can confidently proclaim that if you don't shoot a 20"Lilja there is no possible way you could win (untill next year when I hope to be shooting one of those rocks that Glen is putting out).

[Sleepswithdogs]

It does not matter how well the barrel shoots, or or how long it lasts, or how much it costs. All that matters is how hard it gets spammed on gun forums. I often read how one barrel is better than another, or that chrome lined is the best (or worst), people seem to be all over the place, and I have yet to see a new barrel that was not obviously defective, that was not competitive in three gun. The targets that we shoot at are BIG, as long as the gun runs, and shoots 2 moa, and is repeatable. I bet that many people would not notice a different brand of barrel if the contour was similar. The internet is full of .5 MOA or better AR's, but I have never seen anyone one not require extra rifle shots on any stage I have RO'ed at Ironman. I would submit to you that the group size of your rifle has no bearing on your performance at a three gun match unless it can't hold 2" at 100, and as such you could put nearly any barrel on your rifle. Will I be running out to buy the cheapest barrel I can find for next years new limited upper? Hell no, what kind of fun is it to do that? Then I would not be able to participate in threads like this where I can confidently proclaim that if you don't shoot a 20"Lilja there is no possible way you could win (untill next year when I hope to be shooting one of those rocks that Glen is putting out).

Human nature Stlhead. People want to win, they want the best, they want to think what they have is the best. Yet most competitors will readily tell you that success can't be bought, which in this sport is true. The earth was known to be flat until it was round, so what you describe is nothing new, but as old as the first caveman's second spear. (He broke the first one when it caused him to miss the woolie mammoth he was hunting. )

Personally, I enjoy shooting, enjoy the art of a well made part nearly as much as I enjoy shooting it. In a build I definitely want an ar that shoots better than I do, so any miss I know is me, and I can never point a finger at my equipment. At that point, I accept any ugly, crappy miss I make as belonging to me. Bitch to loose a match to someone who can just afford better equipment. When I loose I'd rather it be to someone who shoots better than I do, not to someone who can afford better equipment than I can.

Interesting, on this site I seldom see anyone saying what they have/shoot is the absolute best and there can be no other. I do see that quite a bit on other sites, (and usually it's a colt.) But people around these parts seem to be quite a bit more, live and let live. Now if your sure you want to shoot a 10.5" ar on the 400 yard targets, your going to hear about it, but IMO, this is a good thing, not a bad thing.

Seems to me people around here are more willing to tell you what works for them and sometimes even what didn't work for them.

Tar

Edited August 3, 2012 by Sleepswithdogs

[MarkCO]

Am I just confused or do most barrels come with a gas tube?

Most barrels do not come with a gas tube, nor a gas block, nor a muzzle device. Noveske, Loki, JP and some others sell barrel kits that include one or more of these items. I'm not sure I know of a barrel that comes only with a gas tube though.

[MarkCO]

RE post #45...could not agree more, could not disagree more...

Sure, 2MOA is fine out to 200 yards maybe, but then things start to change. IronMan does not really have long or hard shots (lets not mention spinners here...) until you get to the 4th gun. RM3G and Blue Ridge...not so. Let's face facts, no matter what match the 50% shooter enters, he is going to be 50% with a $4000 rifle that shoots 1/4MOA or with a $600 rifle that shoots 2 MOA, provided he has the same confidence level. Possible spending $3400 more might move him up a spot or two due to the mental aspect, not a higher hit percentage at distance. $3400 of practice ammo will move that same guy from 50% to maybe 65%.

However, if your rifle shoots 2MOA at 100 yards, it will NOT shoot 2 MOA at 500 yards, more like 3 MOA. So score that 12" plate at 500 yards a probable miss. Start with 1 MOA, now you shoot 2 MOA at 500...call that 12" plate possible hit.

This is similar to the circular argument we have with the 1-4 vs 1-6 scopes. Might help a few, probably not. I certainly know of a few sub 50% shooters who take the time, with very good equipment, and have almost no misses, but they know their stuff and just have fun! Far be it from me to tell them they can't use good stuff if their wallet allows.

Edited August 3, 2012 by MarkCO

[Lead-Head]

It does not matter how well the barrel shoots, or or how long it lasts, or how much it costs. All that matters is how hard it gets spammed on gun forums. I often read how one barrel is better than another, or that chrome lined is the best (or worst), people seem to be all over the place, and I have yet to see a new barrel that was not obviously defective, that was not competitive in three gun. The targets that we shoot at are BIG, as long as the gun runs, and shoots 2 moa, and is repeatable. I bet that many people would not notice a different brand of barrel if the contour was similar. The internet is full of .5 MOA or better AR's, but I have never seen anyone one not require extra rifle shots on any stage I have RO'ed at Ironman. I would submit to you that the group size of your rifle has no bearing on your performance at a three gun match unless it can't hold 2" at 100, and as such you could put nearly any barrel on your rifle. Will I be running out to buy the cheapest barrel I can find for next years new limited upper? Hell no, what kind of fun is it to do that? Then I would not be able to participate in threads like this where I can confidently proclaim that if you don't shoot a 20"Lilja there is no possible way you could win (untill next year when I hope to be shooting one of those rocks that Glen is putting out).

I would agree with pretty much all of this.

I have $215 barrels that shoot perfectly well for any 3 gun event out there, about 1.5 MOA.

I would add that I like Chrome Lined Barrels. Mostly because they are slick to clean and I like the idea of how long they last. I doubt i will shoot out any of mine unless my practice tempo picks-up a lot.

Edited August 3, 2012 by Lead-Head

[jr. 3 gunner]

Am I just confused or do most barrels come with a gas tube?

Most barrels do not come with a gas tube, nor a gas block, nor a muzzle device. Noveske, Loki, JP and some others sell barrel kits that include one or more of these items. I'm not sure I know of a barrel that comes only with a gas tube though.

Okay thanks for the clarification.