adjustable gas system and other considerations for 3 gun?

[OperationHitFactor]

So I'm looking at a complete gun. My experience with AR's is mostly shooting a carbine set up and I currently have a 6.8 for hunting. Doesn't really fit the bill for a deticated 3 gun set up. I've decided on 18inch with rifle length gas system. I've read up on the pros and cons of having an adjustable gas system, but on the fence. What do people think about adjustable gas for a dedicated 3 gun tactical division set up?

I was looking at the Stag 3G, but also considering the Colt Pro CRP. I've always had good luck with Stag products and figure I can just get a different gas system put on. The biggest difference in the two models is the comp and the gas system, but after upgrading the Stag it looks like it will be in the same ball park price wise as the Colt.

USPSA taught me one thing, buy the correct equipment the first time, it's much cheaper in the long run. Plus, I want to get a gun, then be done with it and focus on shooting and practice. I want the "right" equipment that's reliable and works. I don't want "it will work" equipment, but really will need to be upgraded later.

Is their any other considerations I really need to make deciding on a 3 gun ready purchase?

I don't want another situation where 6 months in I find out I bought the wrong equipment.

Thanks

[TMC]

An adjustable gas system is nice so you can taylor it to your load and reduce some of the recoil especially if you have a lightened bolt. That said there are lots of top guys running a fixed system and mil-spec weight bolt. The difference in a match and on the clock is not that noticable.

Having a 100% reliable gun is much better than and soft/flat shooting 95% gun.

Both are good guns so you can't go wrong, I would recommned that which ever you buy, don't change it.

[Sleepswithdogs]

So I'm looking at a complete gun. My experience with AR's is mostly shooting a carbine set up and I currently have a 6.8 for hunting. Doesn't really fit the bill for a deticated 3 gun set up. I've decided on 18inch with rifle length gas system. I've read up on the pros and cons of having an adjustable gas system, but on the fence. What do people think about adjustable gas for a dedicated 3 gun tactical division set up?

I was looking at the Stag 3G, but also considering the Colt Pro CRP. I've always had good luck with Stag products and figure I can just get a different gas system put on. The biggest difference in the two models is the comp and the gas system, but after upgrading the Stag it looks like it will be in the same ball park price wise as the Colt.

USPSA taught me one thing, buy the correct equipment the first time, it's much cheaper in the long run. Plus, I want to get a gun, then be done with it and focus on shooting and practice. I want the "right" equipment that's reliable and works. I don't want "it will work" equipment, but really will need to be upgraded later.

Is their any other considerations I really need to make deciding on a 3 gun ready purchase?

I don't want another situation where 6 months in I find out I bought the wrong equipment.

Thanks

I think you would have trouble pointing to any upper level competitor who doesn't use an adjustable gas block, but I imagine there are some. Only disadvantages I can think of, perhaps if the adjustment screw comes loose or if you run it on the edge and get in cold weather and it won't cycle. Of course some adjust the gas with a choice of barrel gas port size. As said above, using an an adjustable set up you are trading a bit softer shooting gun for a bit more reliability.

Perhaps it's just me, but I liked building one from the ground up. Gave me a chance to choose every single part. (for better or worse! ) but they are all my choice not some companies decision, based on what I am not sure.

IMO barrel choice, comp, round and optic are the critical choices, and I must confess a weakness for VLTOR uppers. They are so well made!!! Frick'n black art! JP, Criterion have very, very good reps, and available barrels, and the DPMS(?)/wilson mark 12 has many good reports and is very reasonable priced.

I think the 18 with a rifle length gas is the most popular setup, of course there are a few who swear by the 16" but again, the vast majority of upper level competitors choose the 18 rifle length.

As far as comps, Rolling Thunder, Titan, Maculic(sp?) and JP make up the bulk. There are some new comps coming out very soon too, and there are a few others that escape me while I'm watching the Olympic Cross Country riding event .

I don't think you could go to far off with any of these, but I don't think they will come on a factory gun, except of course a JP or Thunderbird, Criterion etc. Not that a big company factory gun is a bad choice, but if you find it at a good price and then end up changing a bunch of parts, then it wasn't as good a deal I don't think. Personally, if I were going to get someone to build one for me, I'd far prefer someone like Firebird, Criterion, JP. I'd rather deal with a smaller builder, especially someone who competes and supports the 3 gun game. This is where i think, your going to get the best bang for your buck in a pre-built gun.

Tar

Edited July 30, 2012 by Sleepswithdogs

[MarkCO]

If you load your own ammo, then a non-adjustable gas system is preferable for the reliability.

If you shoot factory, then an adjustable gas system can take out a tad of recoil.

In either case, the JP Low-mass BCG is a bigger (and more reliable) improvment in recoil reduction. Adjustable gas is not needed for tuning a competition rifle when the buffer mass, spring, comp and load can all be tuned.

There are more top tier competitors running non-adjustable gas systems than you might think. There are also some that run the JP system full-open with locktite.

IF, you decide adjustable gas is for you, i think the most durable system is the Syrac.

[Sleepswithdogs]

This one looks interesting too, but I have no experience with it.

http://slrrifleworks.com/products/da7-black-rifle-gas-management-system

[OperationHitFactor]

Reliability is the the most important function of any competition or really any gun for me. I hate equipment malfunctions, in a match I find wrecks to be horrible. In USPSA, I case gauge and inspect all my ammo. Since I load, I will probably just go with the fixed gas system. A little bit more soft is not really a trade off for reliability. I'm guessing the 18" with the rifle gas, a good comp, good internals will be plenty soft and flat anyways. I just wanted too make sure I wasn't missing anything huge, by sticking with a fixed system.

I want to just get a solid load, have a reliable gun, and have solid performance of my rifle. I really don't feel like going down the equipment and load race path again. Starting out in USPSA I did that search for the perfect set up, which was a complete waste of time. I found that once I picked a good load, accepted my gun would never be perfect, and started spending time practicing with in weeks I saw huge results.

I just spent over a year researching the ultimate race gun only to find out it's a pipe dream. Sure I learned a lot, but if I had just bought a good race gun a year ago and spent this year shooting I'd probably have made GM with the amount of time wasted. Just trying to avoid that trap with 3 gun. I really just want a reliable, competitive gun, and would rather spend time shooting in the action bay than online debating which trigger or comp is the best. If it's anything like my super, there is no best, there is good enough to be competitive, now go learn to shoot it.

Thanks for the info everyone, I'll check into a custom, if it's not crazy expensive and the lead times are not insane, I'll consider it. If not, I'm just going to get a Stag 3G, shoot it, if it has bugs get a smith to do a reliability package, maybe change the comp to a JP or a Rolling Thunder comp. Then shoot

Mainly just want to check to make sure I'm not making a fatal purchase flaw or missing an equipment choice I will really need to be competitive.

[TMC]

Reliability is the the most important function of any competition or really any gun for me.

I want to just get a solid load, have a reliable gun, and have solid performance of my rifle.

I just spent over a year researching the ultimate race gun only to find out it's a pipe dream.

If it's anything like my super, there is no best, there is good enough to be competitive, now go learn to shoot it.

I'm just going to get a Stag 3G, shoot it.

Ding Ding Ding, we have a winner!

[Sleepswithdogs]

Reliability is the the most important function of any competition or really any gun for me.

I want to just get a solid load, have a reliable gun, and have solid performance of my rifle.

I just spent over a year researching the ultimate race gun only to find out it's a pipe dream.

If it's anything like my super, there is no best, there is good enough to be competitive, now go learn to shoot it.

I'm just going to get a Stag 3G, shoot it.

Ding Ding Ding, we have a winner!

I think the best gun to have is the one you like/trust most.

Edited July 31, 2012 by Sleepswithdogs

[Vespid_Wasp]

I built an irons/limited rifle with the full JP carrier, gas block, buffer.

Then to dabble in optics I tried to save a bit and built an upper with standard block and carrier. That block and carrier are now in the 'for sale' box and that upper now has a JP adj block and carrier.

I have not had a single reliability issue that I can attribute to the adj gas. I had one solitary rifle malfunction in the last two years, and it was a magazine induced double feed. Don't get silly turning down the gas, and it will treat you right.

Just my 2 cents.

[Puma]

You cannot go wrong with the Stagg 3 G. It is an excellent rifle. But you will have to replace the 'Stagg Super Comp' that the rifle brings. There is just no way getting around to this for it pushes the rifle down making it very uncomfortable etc, etc, etc. With this being said, you cannot beat the Stagg 3 G unless you build your own. I have a Stagg 3 G and am very happy with it( Its a keeper ). I replaced the comp with a Pri-Quiet ( Midway ). Now I am drawing the plans to building my own !

The best of luck !

[OperationHitFactor]

Oh man So I just took a look at the Firebird Precision website. I was kind of planning to shoot Tactical, figured:

Stag 3G

FN SLP

Then build a bushing 9mm 2011 to also serve as and IDPA ESP gun too.

Since I currently shoot in Open in USPSA If I just ignore IDPA and building the 9mm 2011, well I can use my USPSA Open gun and shoot Open in 3 gun

Thanks guys for unleashing the Dragon. Damn forum! Now I just have to have an Open Saiga or Akdal to go with an Open AR

I didn't even know things like that existed. I wasn't really considering shooting Open in 3 gun, but the ridiculous side of my personality just went ape when I saw those marvelous noise machines. Well I came here for a simple question about variable gas blocks, now I'm most likely going in a completely different direction.

Edited July 31, 2012 by OperationHitFactor

[Sleepswithdogs]

Oh man So I just took a look at the Firebird Precision website. I was kind of planning to shoot Tactical, figured:

Stag 3G

FN SLP

Then build a bushing 9mm 2011 to also serve as and IDPA ESP gun too.

Since I currently shoot in Open in USPSA If I just ignore IDPA and building the 9mm 2011, well I can use my USPSA Open gun and shoot Open in 3 gun

Thanks guys for unleashing the Dragon. Damn forum! Now I just have to have an Open Saiga or Akdal to go with an Open AR

I didn't even know things like that existed. I wasn't really considering shooting Open in 3 gun, but the ridiculous side of my personality just went ape when I saw those marvelous noise machines. Well I came here for a simple question about variable gas blocks, now I'm most likely going in a completely different direction.

The quality these "smaller" builders like Firebird, JP, etc. are putting out is just astounding!

Tar

Edited July 31, 2012 by Sleepswithdogs

[Steve RA]

You might also look at a LOKI.

[sendit223]

I shot the Colt Competition Rifle Pro model at 3GMI and NWMGC. It worked great except when I got cute with the gas. The rifle overall is a tack driver and the overall design is well thought out -- nothing unnecessary and everything you need (with options for other stuff later on). I think the finger adjustable gas block on the CCR Pro is the best design out there now.

Having the option of adjusting gas is real nice if you will be running with and without a suppressor (which I did as I couldn't use a can in NWMGC but could in 3GMI).

I also have the Syrac...and the Noveske SB...and a Jet Titanium with set screws. The Syrac design is excellent with a detent release instead of the old set screw deal. I'd bet set screws go the way of the BetaMax now that this better design is out there. The SB is really neat too, and works wonders for guys who switch between suppressed/not. It is very well designed and bulletproof. It is simple with three settings: off, suppressed, unsuppressed. That makes it simple and reliable but not as adjustable.

Steve