MickB Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 (edited) Since picking up a Versa Max Tactical about 3 weeks ago, I noted that the mag tube was about a half inch shy of holding a 9th shell. Due to the thread pattern on the end of the Tactical mag tube being different (larger) than standard extensions, there was no available extended end cap that would fit. So, I had built a +1 and a +2 extended end cap. Prototypes were finished last week and I was able to test them today. NOTE - For this thread, discussion will be about technical aspects only! For the testing, I used the standard mag spring and long follower that comes with the gun. I had on standby a longer Nordic spring cut to length for the 10rd tube on my 26" Versa Max. The +1 end cap easily holds 9 shells. This was designed to have a quarter inch stand off from the end of the extended choke tube to provide some muzzle protection. With standard flush fit choke tube, it will extend 1 inch past the end of the muzzle. The +2 end cap is longer, being a total of 13.5 inches combined length when on the Tactical mag tube. It easily holds 10 shells. I am happy to say that the gun ran flawlessly with both end caps in place using the standard spring. This is not to say that a longer spring might eventually be needed - I just haven't come to that point yet. Myself and 2 other shooters put a few boxes of shells through as fast as we could. I also do not know yet how well the +2 will hold up to barrel dumps due to it's length. Obviously the weak point will be the end cap/mag tube thread interface. I will test that in upcoming 3-gun matches. For now, so far so good! Mick Edited July 28, 2012 by MickB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickB Posted July 28, 2012 Author Share Posted July 28, 2012 Here is a picture of the un-anodized +1 end cap. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickB Posted July 28, 2012 Author Share Posted July 28, 2012 Here is what the +2 end cap looks like. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickB Posted July 28, 2012 Author Share Posted July 28, 2012 Here is a comparison of the different end caps. From left to right are - standard Tactical end cap, XXL end cap (doesn't fit), +1 end cap, +2 end cap. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Sierpina Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 Rather than a cap, you could have machined an extended tube, with a male thread on the end to take the existing cap. I made an extened cap out of delrin for the Nordic extension on my M2, it holds one more, and the last round is no where near bottoming out. I'm going to make the extension tube for the Versa Max I just picked up for my wife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickB Posted July 28, 2012 Author Share Posted July 28, 2012 (edited) Dan, would it not be easier to make the smaller part (end cap) rather than a longer tube? I would have concerns about the long term durability and rigidity of a delrin mag tube that thin as well as how it would hold up in the AZ sun. In addition to that, couldn't the metallic rims of the shells score the inside of the tube and create debris, leading to a jam? That won't happen with metal. Also, how well is delrin going to hold up to muzzle blast? Mick Rather than a cap, you could have machined an extended tube, with a male thread on the end to take the existing cap. I made an extened cap out of delrin for the Nordic extension on my M2, it holds one more, and the last round is no where near bottoming out. I'm going to make the extension tube for the Versa Max I just picked up for my wife. Edited July 28, 2012 by MickB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Player Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 Thanks for letting me shoot your gun today! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 So far the plus one cap is working perfectly!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickB Posted July 28, 2012 Author Share Posted July 28, 2012 Thanks, Kurt! Are you using the standard spring, or something else on your sample? Mick So far the plus one cap is working perfectly!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickB Posted July 28, 2012 Author Share Posted July 28, 2012 (edited) Another observation from today's testing. With the +1 end cap, there was zero muzzle blast residue on the end cap. This was due to the extended choke tube that was in place. With the +2 end cap, there was muzzle blast residue that started just past where the +1 cap ended. Another random observation. With 9 rounds in the tube, the shells and follower stay completely inside the tube. This means only the spring is contained inside the +1 end cap. With 10 shells, the 10th shell pokes out of the tube about three quarters of an inch. That means part of the 10th shell, the follower and spring are contained inside the +2 end cap when fully loaded. Mick Edited July 28, 2012 by MickB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Sierpina Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Mick, The delrin is working fine, but, we don't get a lot of long gun shooting up here. And, the local matches will usually limit the shotgun to 8+1. Like you noted, the extra shell doesn't really go into the tube, and the delrin is pretty slippery. Some carbon gets on the tube from being past the muzzle slightly, but, it comes off easily enough, and doesn't show any signs of gas cutting. Can't comment about the sun affecting it, we don't get it like you do in Phoenix. Doesn't DPMS sell a Clear mag extension? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickB Posted July 29, 2012 Author Share Posted July 29, 2012 I have never seen the clear DPMS tube, but I think it is telling that no other manufacturer has gone this route. Carbon fibre might be a solution, but at what cost compared to aluminium? Here in Phoenix, all of the matches I have been to have the "8+1" start rule, after that no restriction. I have only been to a single match in Tucson that had the "8rd tube only" rule. The concept behind the +1 and +2 end caps was to be able to easily change capacity when shooting so called Outlaw matches, while retaining ability to use the regular end cap when restriced to 8 shell capacity. Much easier (and cost effective) to change an end cap than a whole tube assembly and messing with the clamp. Mick Mick, The delrin is working fine, but, we don't get a lot of long gun shooting up here. And, the local matches will usually limit the shotgun to 8+1. Like you noted, the extra shell doesn't really go into the tube, and the delrin is pretty slippery. Some carbon gets on the tube from being past the muzzle slightly, but, it comes off easily enough, and doesn't show any signs of gas cutting. Can't comment about the sun affecting it, we don't get it like you do in Phoenix. Doesn't DPMS sell a Clear mag extension? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Sierpina Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 I know the reasoning behind the cap, and am all for it. Here's the clear mag tube. http://dpmsinc.3dcartstores.com/Remington-Clear-9-Shot-Extension-Tube-_p_1681.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Just the standard spring, and it is working as advertized. Great new product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chase864 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Wow, clear tube. Cool. Will it fit the Vmax? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenleafshooter Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 I wish I would have saw this post before today. I ordered the Nordic extension for my VM hoping it would make it easier to load and to protect the choke and sight when tossing into the domp bucket.. Are you selling these? I'll take the +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Shoot Fast Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 I know the reasoning behind the cap, and am all for it. Here's the clear mag tube. http://dpmsinc.3dcartstores.com/Remington-Clear-9-Shot-Extension-Tube-_p_1681.html Dan what are you doing to Mark's VM for the tube capicity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Sierpina Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 I know the reasoning behind the cap, and am all for it. Here's the clear mag tube. http://dpmsinc.3dcartstores.com/Remington-Clear-9-Shot-Extension-Tube-_p_1681.html Dan what are you doing to Mark's VM for the tube capicity? Haven't thought about that yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keno34 Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 I've put 500 rounds of bird shot, 50 buck and 50 slugs over the +2 extention. No problems to report, no malfuctions using a Nordic spring. The cool part is that the cap does not work its way loose over extended shooting! I think it is a winner. Thanks Mick! Keith Garcia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickB Posted August 9, 2012 Author Share Posted August 9, 2012 Many thanks to Keith and Kurt for testing out the prototype end caps! I will be doing further testing this weekend at the upcoming Rio Salado 3 gun match. The end caps not working loose was probably due to a last minute modification to the internal design to allow the end cap to seat more efficiently against the tube. Mick I've put 500 rounds of bird shot, 50 buck and 50 slugs over the +2 extention. No problems to report, no malfuctions using a Nordic spring. The cool part is that the cap does not work its way loose over extended shooting! I think it is a winner. Thanks Mick! Keith Garcia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickB Posted August 11, 2012 Author Share Posted August 11, 2012 Shot a match today using the +2 end cap with factory spring. Reliability was 100%. Ammo was a mix of bird shot and slugs. There was no movement of the end cap whatsoever. Also no problems with a barrel dump of the shotgun. Next step is pics of black anodized end caps and looks like red ones! Maybe the red one will help me shoot faster, LOL! Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assaulter Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 (edited) I'm hoping I get mine before the pro-am. I shot a match today too. Every stage with shotgun was an empty chamber start. Thankfully you can ghost load!! Edited August 11, 2012 by assaulter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickB Posted August 27, 2012 Author Share Posted August 27, 2012 (edited) Update - cell phone pic of the anodized versions. Next step is to make sure there is no effect of anodization on thread pattern and ability to lock onto the end of the mag tube! Adding anodizing means changing thread pattern dimensions slightly to allow for the growth in the threads. The +2 design has also been improved internally by changing the bit used to bore the hole so that it is flat at the end like the +1. Mick Edited August 27, 2012 by MickB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assaulter Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 Does that mean they are about to ship out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickB Posted August 28, 2012 Author Share Posted August 28, 2012 Yes. Mick Does that mean they are about to ship out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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