Paul-the new guy Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Why would an open gun be able to handle 9mm major and others not be able too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoMiE Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Fully supported chamber for starters. I have accidently shoot major loads from stock Glock G34 and it didn't blow up, but I wouldnt want to do it intentionally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Barrel. Most major guns have a more fully supported chamber than non major guns. Besides that, springs may play part as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 It's all about the chamber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMC Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 (edited) I've shot lots of Major rounds through my SV 9mm Limited gun. Its harsh but safe. Like others have said, its the chamber Edited July 24, 2012 by TMC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul-the new guy Posted July 24, 2012 Author Share Posted July 24, 2012 Take a 9mm Glock... It is supposed to have a fully supported chamber what would the down side of firing 9 major rounds? Here is the basis of my question. At the range a lot of people pick up brass and there are many un-fired rounds on the ground. Many guys will pick them up but say the will never fire a round they pick up because it could be 9mm major and will blow your gun up. I just don't see how one gun can handle it but another can't. The most common answer is the 9 major gun can handle it because of the comp. In my mind, the comp comes into play later in the firing cycle. Keep in mind, I have no idea what I am talking about, that is why I am asking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambo Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 I don't think the comp has anything to do with safety... Just helps with recoil management. I believe it is all about the chamber being fully supported. FWIW I have always wondered what power factor some of the hot self defense rounds have.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leas327 Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 9 major is not a real round. It is more like the Ruger/TC loads for 45 Colt. It depends on an overbuilt gun to be safe. If a 1911/2011 can be chambered and run 10mm ammo and be safe. Having a barrel with more wall thickness in the barrel isn't going to make it less safe when you turn up the pressure in a 9mm gun. Plus a lot of 9mm 1911/2011 are made to run longer than spec 9mm ammo to keep pressure down. That being said not all 9mm guns are overbuilt. Some are designed to work within the spec pressures of 9mm. They are built heavy enough to last a lifetime using stock pressure ammo but are tested with proof loads that are higher. If you give them a steady amount of overpressured ammo eventually you will find the weak link...KB. I personally don't think 9 major would be fun to shoot out of gun without a comp. But everbodys tastes are different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 I don't think the comp has anything to do with safety... Just helps with recoil management. I believe it is all about the chamber being fully supported. FWIW I have always wondered what power factor some of the hot self defense rounds have.... CorBon, which is generally considered some of the hottest Self Defense rounds.... 125 JHP 1250FPS, 156 PF, 115 JHP 1350FPS, 155 PF..... This is what they list on their website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 I've shot 9major thru a G17. Not an issue. Didn't fit in the mag well, but it worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OperationHitFactor Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Paul if you want to play mythbuster we can meet at Port Malabar. I'll bring major ammo and a 9mm hipoint I picked up for $50. The part where you come in is, well... you have to be the one pulling the trigger. I'll be standing at a safe distance with a cell phone ready to dial 911 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redmanfixit Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 9mm Major often has propellants that are "gassey" to make the comp work. The volume has to come from somewhere so as mentioned above they don't fit a standard mag too well because the OAL is longer to make room. Problem comes in because the bullet is set forward. On chambering, the ogive may be well into the lands. This results in excessive pressure because the bullet has to overcome not only it's inertia but also the fact that it's mechanically in contact with the beginning of the rifling. You'll notice that when you pick spent bullets that the jacket is embossed with the print of the lands. As you study reloading you will find that lots of research has been done that shows big changes in pressure that result from changing bullet seating depth alone. The pressures can get pretty spikey when it's into the lands that far. Most 9Major guns have an extra long leade to allow the bullet to get moving before it hooks up. It doesn't do your gun a bit of good. I wouldn't feed them a regular diet of 9 major cause I like my hands pretty well. I do lots of things with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodownzero Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 I'd shoot anyone on this forum's 9Major through my guns for a single mag without fear. I don't think it'd be healthy for the long term, but I also don't think that a single round or even a large handful would exceed the engineering factor for the gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 I have shot my 9mm Major through all my 9mm guns, including my Kahr. Brass looked fine in every gun, and recoil was on par with some +p+ Corbons I have...... DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul-the new guy Posted July 25, 2012 Author Share Posted July 25, 2012 So, in theory grabbing a 9 major round of the ground and shooting it through a quality firearm will not in fact create a handgrenade... That is good to know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleL Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Theory is nice.... For books. Reality is that if one of those long loaded 9major rounds gets fed into a chamber that is short, like mentioned above, the bullet is sort of jammed in a spot where the high pressure of the 9major powder charge could spike even higher. It is the spike that creates the KB. A "normal" ignition of the 9major would most likely just be loud and snappy, over work the springs in your stock gun, probably shoot just fine like many have stated. It's the fact that unless you loaded it and are positive it isn't even a hair too long for YOUR chamber, you run the risk of smashing the bullet against the rifling and creating a high pressure spike once it is ignited. This is the risk in shooting 9major in a bone stock gun. The guys running the 9major have hand crafted that casing, bullet, charge and primer combo to function optimally in THEIR chamber, which could be drastically different from a stock chamber. A few thousandths can change pressures radically, especially some powders loaded fat in a small case, like 9major. I don't even reload, I will one day soon, but it's amazing what you can learn in the reloading section here.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OperationHitFactor Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 (edited) The lead in is fairly long on most guns and major rounds are long enough that they won't fit in most magazines. The reality is that most people load major ammo to 1.155-1.170 which really isn't long enough to cause that issue in a chamber. I think honestly most people attribute their over charges to I must've picked up a major round. Generally, major ammo is loaded with slower powder which reduces case pressure at higher velocities. What could happen is on a gun with light springs and modifications the timing of the gun could changes. A premature unlock could(with a grain of salt) potentially happen and be an issue, however, still unlikely. Most barrels are rated for +p ammo and then over engineered another 20-30% still falling in the safe zone even with major ammo. Now take a fast powder, and bump it up a grain or two by mistake. Well now you have something that really goes bang. Edited July 25, 2012 by OperationHitFactor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OperationHitFactor Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 (edited) Oh and for the record. I'm still not nor do I recommend to try it. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. I don't pick ammo off the ground and shoot it for the sole reason my Dillon 650 gets really jealous and then I have to tell people I fell down the stairs. Also, hang around a chrono stage you see huge swings in velocities from some people. Makes me wonder if they are measuring like they are in the kitchen cooking. Pinch of this a splash of N3... Ah 231 as a substitue. Yum. Edited July 25, 2012 by OperationHitFactor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UW Mitch Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Oh and for the record. I'm still not nor do I recommend to try it. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. I don't pick ammo off the ground and shoot it for the sole reason my Dillon 650 gets really jealous and then I have to tell people I fell down the stairs. Also, hang around a chrono stage you see huge swings in velocities from some people. Makes me wonder if they are measuring like they are in the kitchen cooking. Pinch of this a splash of N3... Ah 231 as a substitue. Yum. Exactly! I've shot a round of my 9Major ammo through my XD. "Felt" very hot, like Federal +P+ ammo I have for self defense. But I don't shoot that in the XD all the time either. If someone gets a kick out of pushing the envelope and longevity of their firearm is not of particular concern, they can certainly do so. I don't pick up any ammo I find on the ground and shoot it - for me a few cents by shooting a "found" round through a $400+ gun doesn't make sense. But when I see people at the range doing it and they are convinced that it makes sense for them, I don't argue. I just don't shoot next to them. ~Mitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul-the new guy Posted July 25, 2012 Author Share Posted July 25, 2012 I don't routinely pick up rounds from the ground and fire them, I just seriously doubted that my gun would blow up if I did. I shoot some pretty hot 9mm stuff through my eagle at the bowling pin matches...50 rounds tore the hell out of my shock buff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noylj Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 You can come close to major with certain bullets and powders. However, many 9mm Major loads appear to operate in the 50-60ksi range. Unless the case blows out, all you are doing is abusing and wearing out your gun. It still seems like a very dangerous practice for a game... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Paul if you want to play mythbuster we can meet at Port Malabar. I'll bring major ammo and a 9mm hipoint I picked up for $50. The part where you come in is, well... you have to be the one pulling the trigger. I'll be standing at a safe distance with a cell phone ready to dial 911 If you would like, I'll bring the Video camera and also supply the voice over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul-the new guy Posted July 26, 2012 Author Share Posted July 26, 2012 My son could make master with a hipoint.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OperationHitFactor Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Well the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul-the new guy Posted July 26, 2012 Author Share Posted July 26, 2012 or in his case the nut.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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