Skydiver Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 An interesting thing came up this weekend. The classifier was Long Range Standards 2. A shooter shot 5 shots standing, 6 shots kneeling, and 6 shots prone. When we got to the targets to score them, we found 5 holes on T1, 7 holes on T2, and 4 holes on T3. All the holes were the correct diameter. They all had very similar looking (color and size) grease rings. Paper looked to be cut/pushed out of the way similarly. There didn't look to be any tape marks on the cardboard near the hole, but considering the amount of rain we had earlier tape could have been barely holding on. I feel the RO made the right call putting an extra hit penalty on T2 because of the 7 holes. The shooter protested that it must have been tape that fell off because of the rain earlier in the day. Both the RO and I felt bad about the extra hit penalty, but that was the only thing that we could do, as that is what was on paper. (RM eventually ordered a reshoot because the target didn't get pulled as part of the protest, which is the best outcome all around for the shooter.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mactiger Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 In my opinion, that was the correct call. However, ordering a reshoot because a target didn't get pulled is not, unless the competitor asked the RM to score it, and that didn't happen for some reason. Troy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Was there no indication that extra shots were taken? or did you only score the extra hit. I'm told alot of people keep track of shots fired, especially in standards. I would tend to think maybe I should have counted shots better, so I could rule out rain-induced tape failures. I would also be looking around to try find the alleged piece of tape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted July 17, 2012 Author Share Posted July 17, 2012 We were counting shots... It was fixed time, after all, where there are extra shot penalties. See the original post for the shot counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted July 17, 2012 Author Share Posted July 17, 2012 In my opinion, that was the correct call. However, ordering a reshoot because a target didn't get pulled is not, unless the competitor asked the RM to score it, and that didn't happen for some reason. Troy The competitor was is such a huff in the heat of the moment that he forgot to ask that the target be pulled. Thinking back now, I should have know better and have asked "would you like the target to be pulled and have the RM look at it?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 This is where a 2nd RO watching the targets (and subsequent bullet impacts behind the targets) would be nice to have as the RO on the timer is most likely not looking down range ( or at least shouldn't be). As the situation is written, I would issue 1 additional hit pnalty on target 2 as there is 7 holes when we are only supposed to have 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted July 17, 2012 Author Share Posted July 17, 2012 (edited) This is where a 2nd RO watching the targets (and subsequent bullet impacts behind the targets) would be nice to have as the RO on the timer is most likely not looking down range ( or at least shouldn't be). As the situation is written, I would issue 1 additional hit pnalty on target 2 as there is 7 holes when we are only supposed to have 6. I was the clipboard RO watching for faults and trying to keep an eye on the targets. I gave up trying to look at the target that was 50 yards away because I couldn't see that far. The competitor was shooting major 9. If I really worked hard at it, I could see .45 holes under the overcast conditions. Anything smaller, I couldn't see. Also green foliage behind the targets, no so puffs of bullet impacts to see. Edited July 17, 2012 by Skydiver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 We were counting shots... It was fixed time, after all, where there are extra shot penalties. See the original post for the shot counts. sorry, my bad here, i got my counting mixed up. If the competitor fired 17 shots, and there are 16 holes, including some misses, and one shot too many on one of the targets, I would score that as an extra hit, almost certainly. And I would advise the competitor that his case would be better if there were 18 holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 We score extra shots at the line. We score extra hits at the target. One can exist without the other, if a stray shot misses one target and hits another.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunguru Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 In fact, my first question is... why did he shoot only 5 shots on the first string???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 In fact, my first question is... why did he shoot only 5 shots on the first string???? I assume because it was a fixed time course of fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UW Mitch Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Ants - is it possible one of the 6 shots taken at T3 prone landed as an extra shot on T2? Interesting question - since I usually think these things are straightforward. I guess at 50 yards not so much... ~Mitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted July 18, 2012 Author Share Posted July 18, 2012 In fact, my first question is... why did he shoot only 5 shots on the first string???? I assume because it was a fixed time course of fire. I asked after he shot. His response was "Mental error. I had lots of time to have fired one more shot, but I just wasn't thinking of it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerba Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Ants - is it possible one of the 6 shots taken at T3 prone landed as an extra shot on T2? Interesting question - since I usually think these things are straightforward. I guess at 50 yards not so much... ~Mitch it could...therefore extra hit on T2...doesn't matter if it came from a miss on T3... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 We score extra shots at the line. We score extra hits at the target. One can exist without the other, if a stray shot misses one target and hits another.... Yes, every RO knows that. I misread the original post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 We score extra shots at the line. We score extra hits at the target. One can exist without the other, if a stray shot misses one target and hits another.... Yes, every RO knows that. I misread the original post. That wasn't directed at you in particular -- just a general reminder..... My experience is a bit different -- in that some ROs I've met have not known that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 We score extra shots at the line. We score extra hits at the target. One can exist without the other, if a stray shot misses one target and hits another.... Yes, every RO knows that. I misread the original post. That wasn't directed at you in particular -- just a general reminder..... My experience is a bit different -- in that some ROs I've met have not known that.... Understood. I somehow read it as there were *more* holes in the target than there were shots fired. If that had been the case (shooter fired 18 shots, but there were 19 holes, including 7 on one target, for example), I would probably take into account information besides what is at the target, and I would have a hard time counting an extra hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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