Percentage of Execution

[mickd1]

I want to enjoy shooting and do well, so it is a tough balancing act between pushing myself to get better and having fun. I have seen shooters who are so serious that they get angry and beat themselves up about every stage. I want to improve, but not at the expense of draining all the fun out.

+1

[Fiddler1537]

I would agree to a large extent with this "On any Sunday" theory (if you don't mind me putting a different name on it). But while consistency is critical, there are certain factors (steady hands, excellent vision, fine motor control) that are necessary to maximize accuracy. Those of us that lack these factors (I say with my age related tremor and deteriorating vision) will never shot at the level of the best shooters, regardless of consistency.

Edited June 22, 2014 by Fiddler1537

[Chris iliff]

I'm going to have to disagree with most folks here about the only difference between B and M class shooters is consistency. Just like I think there is a lot of difference between a 61% B shooter and a 74% B shooter. I've only been in this game for 2 years but I've never seen a B shooter beat a bunch of masters at a match .....

I'm currently sitting at 58.1% and at Area 6 in April my match percentage was 57.6%, almost exactly at my current classification level. No matter how much more consistent I would have shot I wouldn't be at the 85% level. I actually only had one stage of the 12 where I had serious issues ....

I guess it's possible that once I reach the 65-75% level as a solid B shooter my core skills will have progressed to the point of a Master, just not as consistent, but I don't see how that's really true ....

From some of your posts I've read in the past I put you in the high A to GM range. You possess all the knowledge you need. Let me tell you brother you are right where I was 3 years ago. Almost exactly, I was a 58% shooter. I did have occasional glimpses of greatness and my classifier scores were fairly consistent, although I had never shot a thing above 82%.

I think the point being made is a B class guy has the ability to knock it out of the park and some of them do, just not consistently. It is rare that you'll see a B beat a bunch of M's. It happens, and I know one or two that did it with regularity, but they quickly moved into A and M class. You seem to be more like I was, just generally moving up without a lot of swing in your progression, kinda a slow crawl with periods of no noticeable improvement? I settled into a way of shooting and could perform fairly well within my lane, so to speak.

Ok the point is, don't settle, ever! Push push push the speed constantly and learn to shoot at the Master/GM level. I was taught this by a new guy I was helping and frankly I learned as much from him as he ever learned from me. How does a M/GM shoot? Thank goodness for our classification system. Figure out the HHF's for some of them and set about learning to do it. It's really so simple we start to think it has to be more complicated and we fool ourselves. It is simple, the process is very simple. Most just don't have the discipline to see it through.

Oh, and I firmly believe that somewhere around the B to A class level, the actual "shooting practice" is far more beneficial than the "DRYFIRE" practice. At this level, live fire is paramount. You just can't DRYFIRE the trigger pull, grip, recoil and sight pics needed. You have to livefire that stuff. Might work to get you an M card or GM card, but you ain't gonna be a true M or GM on just dry firing.

Ok, I kinda ranted here a little, sorry.

Edited June 23, 2014 by Chris iliff

[Nimitz]

Chris: Thx for the compliment ... as you have pointed out, knowledge ain't my problem (my MENSA card not withstanding), having the physical skills to match is ... Now in the interest of full disclosure I don't exactly have the shooting background most do who shoot this sport ... I literally picked up a pistol for the first time in Nov 2011 and then took a class from Mike Seeklander in Jan 2012 and shot my first match with him the next day. I finished last in Production & last overall (48/48) with 28 Mikes & 14 Deltas on a 155 rd match. Roll forward to this year where I finished 24th at the US Steel Nationals in the open rimfire div out of 86 competitors, have won 2 local SC matches & have won my class in the last 2 USPSA matches I've shot - not exactly the resume of a national champion but given where I started from I'm thrilled to start seeing some limited results. Whenever I get a little frustrated I remind myself that I have yet to reach my 3 year anniversary in shooting ...

Now having said that, your description of me is pretty much spot on. I've only shot 20 classifiers since starting out but nothing over 69%. Also, until I met Ben Stoeger last Oct I really wasn't training correctly, just focusing on accuracy and assuming the speed would come - well it didn't, not at least until I started forcing it to. While things still are not progressing as fast as I'd like, they do seem to be progressing and pushing when I'm training is the norm for me now.

My accuracy during training is lower than it used to be but that is in part because I'm constantly telling myself to go faster and just 'figure it out'. Since I know I can shoot accurately any time I want I'm focusing on speed and working to get accuracy to catch up ... only if I feel completely out of control on a rep or if I can't get the basic skill right will I back off a bit.

As for the live fire training I'm hoping that your hypnosis is true as I live fire 3x/week & see no reason to slow down ...

Edited June 24, 2014 by Nimitz

[Chris iliff]

That's awesome! Despite what some may say, Stoeger's training philosophy is top notch in my book. In recent years I've witnessed 3 different people in Indiana, all new shooters like yourself, rocket to the top by embracing the "balls to the wall mentality". One was CB45 on this forum. That guy picked my brain and then developed his skills faster than anyone I've ever seen. He put the work in and the word "slow" was nowhere in his mentality. Since then he has "passed" that mentality on and others are tearing up the Indiana scene.

He is now busy proving his detractors wrong by shooting Production. You know us Open guys can't really shoot, right? Well, I just watched him run a 100% classifier with his production gun. I think it's awesome!!

Anyway, push push push and kick anyone that says slow down and get your hits right in the jimmies.

When you are pushing and it goes off the rails............just learn to aim better at that speed, never slow down, EVER.

[MarkCO]

Anyway, push push push and kick anyone that says slow down and get your hits right in the jimmies.

When you are pushing and it goes off the rails............just learn to aim better at that speed, never slow down, EVER.

That might be the best advice in this thread...for me. Thanks!

[Nimitz]

I agree, slowing down is never the right answer - NEVER. You simply must learn to see faster ....

(Too bad I didn't start shooting when I was 22 instead of 52 ... )

[Chris iliff]

I agree, slowing down is never the right answer - NEVER. You simply must learn to see faster ....

(Too bad I didn't start shooting when I was 22 instead of 52 ... )

Nimitz, I'm 47 and I started around 36. Took me 10 years to make Master. It wasn't until around year 7 or 8 that I started to realize that I had been doing it wrong. Along came this kid, CB45, and honestly, even though he was picking my brains, his never slow down attitude was infectious. That damn kid helped me more than I helped him and he probably doesn't realize it. Couple that with GM Chris Keen helping me and being my mentor and I did a complete 180 on my thinking

Come to find out my new thinking was basically the same as Stoeger's. Somehow, some guys just get things intuitively and unfortunately I'm not that guy. Lol. It took me 8 years to realize what guys like Stoeger, Keen and CB45 just intuitively figured out in a very short amount of time.

You are probably right, at our age, maybe a national championship is out of the question, but there is no reason why we both can't make GM and have a lot of fun along the way. Plus, I love the pursuit! Great people and good fun.

Edited June 24, 2014 by Chris iliff

[Nimitz]

I think my biggest impediment to faster progress is that I have to constantly fight against my formal professional education and training as an engineer and scientist. I'm always looking for nice neat answers that I can put in a box and just follow like some kind of equation. It's taken me a while to realize that simply following a structured plan doesn't really work and that I need to be constantly reevaluating and changing and adapting. One of things I've recently started doing in dry fire is to just set the goal time, no mater how far away I am from it and just keep working until i can reach it. Same goes for live fire. I used to just note my times and try to get faster. Now I set the goal time as a par time to help force me to go faster when I shoot a drill.

It wasn't that long ago (Jan) where I had never broken 6 secs in a 10 yd plate rack ever. 2 days ago I set another personnel best at 4.35 secs which included a .51 sec M/U shot. So, i know I'm getting faster. I'm also committed to perfecting my stand and shoot skills until I can shoot classifer like drills on command at h 75% level. Only then will I start working on other aspects.

As for making GM, I know it's going to happen simply because I've decided I will do it - no matter what it takes. And as for that national championship, don't be too sure ... Given the times I saw at the Nationals, I believe the Senior division category is not out of reach .... The journey will be fun no matter what, that's for sure.

I expect to see both our names on the " newest GM" list some day ....

[CB45]

Performing at a GM level in a match is more difficult than shooting with GM skills. I know many people with GM skills in different divisions. The ability to perform on demand at any time is what separates the guys at the top.

Experience builds confidence which leads to consistency. Train for speed and shoot for points. Be honest with self evaluation. If you know what you are capable of, you will rarely be surprised on match day. That's about as Zen as I get.

[Nimitz]

Absolutely agree. The ability to stand and shoot at a GM level is only part of the answer. My plan is to continue to improve my stand and shoot skills until I can perform at the 75% level on command and then start incorporating more "match type" skills work into my training. At my advanced age working one aspect at a time has started to yield better results. Crawl, walk, run seems to work better for me than just go to the deep end of the pool, jump in and either learn to swim or drown ...

That being said, I no longer train with the belief that speed will come if I just put in enough time ....when I look at the timer after a rep now my first thought is, "I need to go faster on the next rep" ... While I'm still concerned about my hits while training, I'm more concerned about my SPEED ...