Keeping the thumbs off the pistol?

[NicVerAZ]

Uh, yes, another grip thread. Maybe we should have an entire forum section dedicated to grip?

Anyway, reading Brian's book, I see this legend under a photo, saying not to push with the thumbs, so as not to "steer" the pistol.

I am working on moving my thumbs much higher, as I have been simply wrapping my hands around the pistol grip and naturally resting my thumbs at trigger level. I have only dry fired so far with my thumbs higher, doing a lot of drawing exercises, building muscle memory. I will see what it does at the night steel match tonight, if it comes out naturally at all or not (I do not think about technique at matches, this is worked on during dry firing and while plinking - I just got my PB pass signed last week).

But from my dry firing exercises, I found it a bit too hard too keep my thumbs off the pistol. My GP6 does not like me pushing down on the safety: it disengages the double action mechanism. So I have been learning to keep the pressure off from the strong hand thumb when it rests against the safety. Another issue is that if I rest my weak hand thumb too high, the slide serration could probably hurt me. So that is another good reason to be careful with my grip.

But keeping all pressure off and even taking my thumbs off the pistol seems a bit too much to think about.

Having a light pressure makes sense.

Am I just overthinking this? Or is it truly important?

By the way I was pretty happy with my dry fire, even dual action.

Thanks for the help

[Mechanistic]

Not over thinking at all! That's the beauty of this; there is a lot to think about while shooting and it's all important. Unbeknownst to those who haven't ventured into this world.

I was told to use your two middle fingers to press the gun into the palm, thus relieving pressure from other digits or the trigger finger and to always keep the thumb at the same level with the trigger finger. That tip seemed to keep me from hitting the safety while firing as well in single and double handed shooting. I kept engaging the safety as well until I beat that into my head.

I've seen those lovely little thumbrests for the scope mounts on non-airsoft guns? Hell, why not get a better grip piece thats formed with a spot for the thumb?

I'm new. just...throwing those ideas out.

[Frankl03]

I have a STI 2011, I have been putting my week hand thumb on the frame. My son who has been shooting competition allot long showed my this. He put a small square of grip tape just forward of the slide stop to rest his week hand thumb on. I have been practicing the same grip. Haven't shot using this grip yet.

[Reshoot]

I was taught to keep both thumbs off the gun. My week hand thumb points towards the target, and my stong hand thumb is on top of the second joint of the weak hand thumb.

[Nightrod]

My problem is almost the same. The side of my right thumb touching the slide casing my gun to malfunction and slowing the slide return. Since then, I used swenson thumb safety ( with shield) I take Swenson even I know it won't last longer compare to other brand. Too soft metal and it's know to brake the connection from left to right. Can anybody suggest what other brand or solution should I do?

[Chris iliff]

Swenson are a good option. Like others have stated, my thumbs point at target and are very relaxed. I get more consistent sight tracking (straight up and down) if my thumbs are relaxed and not exerting any pressure on the gun.

[Ronnie j]

Listen to what your body is trying to tell you, if it's too ard to keep your thumbs off it , then don't . Lots of good shooters currently using a thumbs on approach Dave is one I think. Open guns have thumb rests for reason and soon to will many limited guns.

[Coach]

Having the thumbs on the gun is fine, and not the same as steering with them. The more skin touching the gun the more friction you have and therefore the more recoil management you have.

Seems to me there was a disclaimer in Brian's book about this stuff worked for him and none of it may work for you. (something to that effect)I took that to mean on mechanics of shooting there is not a one size fits all.

[DoubleL]

Just experiment a little. If squeezing the crap out of the gun with your thumbs gives you .08 splits and matching transitions.... Go for it. For me, squeezing makes my tracking all jacked up but not touching at all allows the gun to wobble while I align. Just have to find that happy medium that works for your hands and gun. I've tried the super high ala Adam Tyc grip and I just can not make it work, my hands are just too small. So I settle for as high as I can possibly get without my thumbs interfering.

[AlexOsensei]

yes the swenson is really great. I had some problem stopping the slide..but now...no more problems..

[NicVerAZ]

Swenson may be nice but I shoot production at the moment. I'd rather not learn to rely on technology while building good form.

[motosapiens]

I'm a newb, so take what I say with several grains of salt, but....

Shooting a cz75b, I seem to have best results with my support hand cradling the front of my strong hand almost like under a rifle. Thumb rests on the frame below the slide and is counterbalanced by fingers wrapping around my strong hand fingers. This allows me to use my support hand for most of my grip and relax my strong hand more. Strong thumb rests on the safety. This is a very stable and neutral position for me, but...... it won't work on guns that don't have enough frame below the slide, and it won't work as comfortably on my decocker-equipped cz.

It does work on my m&p and seems to work on my 1911 (sig with rail).

After having such a grip suggested to me, I started watching the best local guys, and most of them seemed to be using something somewhat similar.

[Sin-ster]

Sevigny, as previously noted, believes the support hand thumb is a large element of his grip. But if you see him in photos/videos, you'll see that he has a pretty odd approach to grip and recoil management in the first place.

Look at it this way...

If you're not pushing shots off with your thumbs and the sights are tracking properly, it's a non-issue no matter what you do with your thumbs.

If you're running into these problems, be aware of all aspects of your grip and experiment with how they might be effecting your accuracy and your recoil management. Getting stuck with hard and fast rules is a big, big no-no.

I'm guessing if Brian had to do it all over again, he'd put even more stress on the relatively small blurb that goes something like: "All of this might be wrong, so experiment for yourself!"

Above all, Brian teaches three things: neutrality, relaxation and (above all else) awareness.

Many of the mechanics described in his book are universal to all of the great shooters; some are not. But the underlying CONCEPTS are what's really important, not the super-specific "grip like this, stance like that," etc.

[TriggerJockey]

I have to agree with Sevigny, the thumb press is a vital part of my grip and it helped eliminate this issue I used to have of pulling left (I'm a right handed shooter). It's probably one of those things that really is up to shooter preference but, it helped me.

[Ssanders224]

Not sure how much pressure each one of these guys is applying with each thumb????

But I'd bet they are all pretty similar.

Thumbs forward was always the most natural way of holding a pistol for me. Strong thumb on the safety, and weak tumb on the frame.

[Jerome]

I shoot a 1922/2011 so my strong hand thumb rides the safety.

I started with weak hand thumb on the gun under the slide. Read Brian's book and removed thumb from gun. Took a lesson from a great shooter who puts tape on the gun where he wants his thumb to be as a reference point. He does not apply any pressure to the gun there just feels the tape and he knows his thumb is pointing in the right direction (towards the target). So I tried that and that's what I do now. Side of the gun well under the slide by the way. Don't want to interupt the slide movement.

[sroe3]

I shoot polymer guns in production division. I index my strong thumb on top of the slide release lever, weak thumb along the frame near the take down lever. One of my pistols has a considerable slide release lever and it makes a good, and legal, thumb rest. My slides don't lock back that way but I don't care. I almost never shoot the gun empty. My grip is primarily fingers squeezing toward palms.

[Sin-ster]

Specifically...

My left (support) thumb is pressed against the frame at the takedown lever; I shoot an M&P, and have a callous there from that part rubbing my skin. It's just enough to keep that thumb from slipping off the gun-- definitely not a lot of pressure.

My right (strong) thumb sits very gently against the frame, but most of it rests on top of my support hand. There is absolutely no pressure applied there during freestyle, and though I *used* to never go into slidelock as a result, this is not the case anymore. When I shoot SHO, however, I apparently apply a bit more leverage there to balance the gun, and don't mitigate as much recoil; the slide won't lock back, as I'm pretty sure the whole gun flips a bit more and causes my thumb to knock the stop lever off.

[benos]

...the underlying CONCEPTS are what's really important, not the super-specific "grip like this, stance like that," etc.

After I had a little experience, I no longer cared about "grip like this, stance like that," etc.

The grip's fundamental underlying concept: Perfecly align the sights, close your eyes, release the shot, then after the pistol has recovered from recoil, open your eyes. The goal being to see the sights perfectly aligned, every time. However you manage to accomplish that will be the best way for you to grip your pistol.

be

[Sin-ster]

...the underlying CONCEPTS are what's really important, not the super-specific "grip like this, stance like that," etc.

After I had a little experience, I no longer cared about "grip like this, stance like that," etc.

The grip's fundamental underlying concept: Perfecly align the sights, close your eyes, release the shot, then after the pistol has recovered from recoil, open your eyes. The goal being to see the sights perfectly aligned, every time. However you manage to accomplish that will be the best way for you to grip your pistol.

be

Did you ever find yourself making your grip more consistent in order to avoid having pressure changes disrupt the sights before/as the shot broke? I found that applying a tad more force helped in that regard without changing the sight tracking; if anything, it may have improved recoil recovery a tiny bit.

Grip strength training helped here as well.

[benos]

Keeping the grip nuetral and consistent was what I cared about the most.

I'd vary the grip force, depending on how jacked up I felt at the moment.

be

[tk4]

My problem is almost the same. The side of my right thumb touching the slide casing my gun to malfunction and slowing the slide return. Since then, I used swenson thumb safety ( with shield) I take Swenson even I know it won't last longer compare to other brand. Too soft metal and it's know to brake the connection from left to right. Can anybody suggest what other brand or solution should I do?

Thumb shield from EGW.

[Sin-ster]

Keeping the grip nuetral and consistent was what I cared about the most.

I'd vary the grip force, depending on how jacked up I felt at the moment.

be

As long as it was consistent-- all of the time. Got it.

60%-- consistent coverage.

90%-- jacked up, but consistent coverage.

[ares338]

I have always messed around with my grip on everything. It has always led to me having problems too. It happened in golf and now with pistols and revolvers...LOL! My support hand thumb feels very unnatural way forward like these superb shooters shown above. I noticed a picture of Jeff Cooper holding his 1911. A very high grip with his strong hand thumb resting on the safety and the support thumb resting on top of his strong hand thumb. This puts the grip very high and keeps me from exerting any sideways influence on the pistol. I tried this grip with my XDS (strong side thumb not quite as high here) and it is perfect for me. Although excessive recoil has never been a problem for me....this made it even less of a problem. This also works for my revolver grip therefore they are basically the same which is great for my EDC situation. I am by no means an expert but it seems to works for me. My groups have tightened up a lot.

[PJones1911]

I had no problems for years and then started to ride the safety on my 1911 with my strong hand thumb. Then I wasn't pressing the grip safety enough. Now my support thumb rides the slide lock. The grip is completely messed up. Where did my old grip go. I want it back. Anyway, I am trying the support thumb far forward and it feels very unnatural to me. I need a wrist bender. The thumb forward is getting better the more i practice it and I no longer ride the slide stop. Grip is very important so keep working on it.